Kuzma 4 Point Tonearm

I have a 4Point9 and it was a major upgrade from the Stogi S I was using.  Much more impactful sound on the same table. It simply maintains the stylus so well inside the groove. The 4 point design is genius and punches well above its cost.  While I can't change the VTA on the fly it's still quite simple with an allen key.  

I had a 4 Point on my Stabi Ref for two years. I thought it sounded very good and certainly produced a lot of detail. But over that two years I virtually stopped playing records. It was a nice sounding tonearm but I just found it a bit ... boring. I couldn’t get engaged with the music. I would play one album at most and then go back to playing digital.

This was very different to the experience with the previous tonearms I had used on the deck, including a Stogi Ref and Audio Origami PU7. I loved playing records with those arms, even though at a technical level they were inferior to the 4 Point.

Eventually I realised that the 4 Point just wasn’t working for me, so I sold it. As a temporary replacement I bought a used Alphason HR100 because it was inexpensive and was a drop in replacement. It sounded much more musical than the 4 Point, which confirmed my impression that the 4 Point was the culprit. I have since bought another Audio Origami PU7, which is considerably less expensive and offers much less adjustability, but sounds far more dynamic, engaging and musical. I am now very happy with my turntable set up.

The 4 Point is a good sounding tonearm despite my own reservations, and many people seem to be very happy with it. The ability to adjust both VTA and VTF easily and repeatably is a big plus. Aesthetically I find it quite an ugly arm, but I would have tolerated that if it sounded great. Unfortunately, for me it didn’t quite work but I seem to be in the minority so would not want to discourage you from trying one.

I should also add that I owned the 9 inch 4 Point briefly, but returned it to the dealer after a short period. I found that the 9 inch version was even less dynamic than the 11 inch version and sounded too anemic for my tastes.

This is the first that I've heard someone say that the 4 Point is ugly/boring. I guess to each his own.

Its all relative. I had a Graham 2.2, and it was a very nice arm, but when I went to the Origin Live Conqueror it was shocking how much better the Conqueror was. Shocking. Even adjusting for its much higher cost, still it was so good I am happy even today a good dozen years later. It does not have nearly the aerospace level engineering of the Graham. But the Graham does not have nearly the musically involving and compelling sound of Origin Live. I doubt many do. A good one to consider.

In fairness to Graham, most Graham-lovers have already noted that the 2.2, while certainly "good", was not in the same league as any of the later models.  Did you try any of those?  They would be more on a par with the Conqueror. (I do not own a Graham tonearm, now or ever.)

Sorry OP - post is on a tangent.  I have used the Kuzma 4P on a Kuzma table and currently on a AF Technics SP10 Mk2 and both setups have been spectacular.  I chose the 4P (11") over the 4P 9 inch arm just on the basis of the VTA tower - I didn't mind paying extra for the feature. It is considered to be one of the best tonearms under $10k.

You can email Franc Kuzma at  kuzmaltd@gmail.com who is super responsive and can answer questions you have on mating the Kuzma arm with your TechDas table.  Also, if you need an armboard, it can add cost. Thom Galibiler is another person that is very knowledgeable and a great person to talk to - his website is -
https://galibierdesign.com/author/thomtheadmin/

Good luck.
 

I really like my Origin Live arm.  Really high quality workmanship and superb sound.

I had a 4 point 14 and for low compliance cartridges like Koetsus and Air Tights. It was the nuts. Very easy to adjust, great bearing set up, proper geometry, Neutral balance. It is hard to do better. So, why did I sell it?
I needed to get all the money out of my turntables and cartridges because I plan on getting a Dohmann Helix as soon a vacuum clamping is added. I will put at least one Schroder LT on it. Have not made up my mind about the second arm but it could be a 4 point 14 or another LT or  a 12 Schroder CB. 

The 4 Point's competitors are the 12 " Schroder CB and the 12" Reed 2G.
I could go with any of these arms. Top notch designs all.

I quite enjoy my Ref 313 VTA, which is on my Stabi Ref 2. A lot less $ than the 4 Point. M. Fremer liked it a good bit, and spoke highly of it's value next to the 4 point. All personal preference of course. 

Well the reviewers ...
The main difference from them to me is, I wouldn‘t listen to any of the lame, colored „recommendations“ above even when I would get serious money for it ...

mijostyn
I too am waiting for Dohmann to go to a vacuum hold-down. But I did notice on the Dohmann website a number of months ago, that it no longer contains a reference in the Helix 2 description to its adaptability for  a future vacuum hold-down. I cannot seem to get an answer as to whether the vacuum holdown has been abandoned by Dohmann. It seems that Dohmann has been talking about incorporating that feature since the introduction of the Helix 1 but was unable to incorporate it in the Helix 1 or the Helix 2. Was it unworkable? Cost prohibitive? Will it take a new turntable design to effectuate the feature? 
My wait continues.

Dear @randypeck : Which cartridges do you own or which do you want to use with a new tonearm?

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

gpgr4, that is exactly what I have found. A blank wall. I have one retailer who is supposed to be posing the question to Dohmann. I'll let you know if I find out anything.
The current table uses reflex clamping, the next best solution.
If I had to guess, adding vacuum will change the center of mass of the table requiring a redesign of the MinusK suspension. It would make sense at that point to issue another model. 

Raul,

I wanted to let you know that I have a Lyra Etna ready to be mounted on the Kuzma 4Point as soon as the TechDas lll arrives.  

Additionally, I want to thank everyone who provided their experience, thoughts, and opinions regarding the Kuzma 4Point tonearm.

Randy

Congratulations - good choice and excellent combo.  You won't be disappointed with the Kuzma 4P - I love mine.

RK

Randy, I hope your new table provides you with a lifetime of pleasure. If you have any issue with the 4 Point feel free to message me. I know less than nothing about the TechDas. Should be a top notch performer.

@original poster,

The Kuzma 4point is now on my radar for a third tonearm for my system, a Transrotor Apollon TMD. Lots of positive reports in industry and in forums about the Kuzma 4point.

 I had also considered the Graham Elite or a top tier Schroeder...but, always seem to migrate to the 4point in my research, and from a close analog buddy of mine who suggested the Kuzma 4point.

I currently have two SME Vs that I use with my Soundsmith Sussaro, Benz LPS, and Benz Ruby Z, and Hyperion.

I plan on using a myriad of cartridges now and in the not too distant future on this tonearm; Soundsmith Hyperion, Air Tight PC1 Supremen, Air Tight Opus 1, and perhaps some other variant such as the Etsuro Gold, as well as something on the higher end scale from Koetsu.

I hope your listening sessions are going well and look forward to you posting your impressions.

Dear @randypeck  : Along the Kuzma tonearm great analog rig you own, the Etna is a first class quality performer. Congratulations  ! :

R.

Audioquest for life, you sure like phonograph stuff. The 4 point is a great arm. I like the 9 the best. I just ordered a Schroder CB 9". It will be in my hot little hands on Thursday but the turntable is still about 15 weeks away:-( I picked the Schroder over the CB because of the magnetic damping and antiskating which I feel is superior to the 4 points mechanical antiskating. It is also a lower mass arm which suites the cartridges I use. I prefer more compliant cartridges with advanced stylus profiles as I have seen enough evidence that convinces me record wear is much lower. The Clearaudio Charisma just blew me away. I now also have my first Soundsmith cartridge, The Voice ES which I am psyched to try but I'm waiting until I can put it in the Schroder. 

4 Point is ugly, look for Reed instead

@mijostyn,

Yes, sure love analog...it’s become more pronounced since I departed the military and get to enjoy life and music more since I am not traveling much anymore. 
But, the Dohmann Helix is a heck of a machine. Looks wonderful. What model are you getting? I was seriously considering the Transrotor Tourbillion which is close to the price class of the Döhmann Helix One Mk.2. Now, I have some research to do. 

Look forward to your listening impressions of the Döhmann Helix when you get it. 15 weeks is a long time to wait for that beast, holy cow. 
Interesting feedback regarding the Kuzma 4point mechanical antiskating vice the magnetic antiskating of the Schroeder. It would be interesting to measure lateral antiskating bearing resistance/friction of the Kuzma vs the Schroeder. What I am thinking is if the bearing has excessive friction and somewhat sticks causing antiskating to be problematic. I don’t think you have to worry about that with the Schroeder, outside the magnetic field losing its magnetic properties for whatever reason. 

Dohmann table and Schroeder just terrific although I only heard the first gen table. I don’t know about the second gen. I almost bought gen 1 but money was a little tight at the time.

@syntax 

Interesting feedback about the Kuzma 4P. The Kuzma 4P is one of the arms I am looking to add to my system, but, as I get tidbits such as this, it’s slowly becoming less of a contender.

Not wanting to derail the 4P discussion, but, Do you have any alternative tonearm recommendations for the OP and community at large? Specifically, ones that are not soft sounding and can play any types of music with reasonable quality besides just slow music? I think this would be of value to the OP and community at large. Thanks. 

We ran the 4-point at one of the last T.H.E. Shows in Las Vegas (showing with Sound Lab) and got Best Sound at Show from Dick Olsher.

I played Massive Attack and a good number of other cuts that put any system through its paces and the 4 Point handled it all with ease.

If looking for another arm of similar caliber the Triplanar is an obvious choice; I think its actually a better arm but clearly both are excellent.

Have installed several Kuzma 4 point 14 and a single 4 point 11.  To me they are very robust sounding arms, lots of weight to the sound. We used a 4P14 at the last show we did. 

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/06/23/pbn-audio-does-it-all-t-h-e-show-2019/

You should look into Origin Live too, currently I use, among others, a Enterprise C, this arm use a similar vertical bearing technique.  

Good Listening

Peter

As a Kuzma dealer I sold and set up 4Point tonearms and continue to use mine and do setups for others.

In my experience it has never been described as boring. Keep in mind you can adjust the amount of damping oil in the horizontal and vertical damping troughs to suit your cartridge and listening preferences.

I never used the oil but I was using very low compliance cartridges at the time. The OP's Soundsmiths are also low compliance cartridges so I do not think they will need it. 
Check out the Reed 2G, Also a great arm. Similar vertical bearing, magnetic anti skating and arm wands of various effective masses. I did not get it because I do not think it will fit on the SOTA. The Schroder CB 
is such an elegant design. It looks so simple but it is not. There is a lot going on in the central pillar. Like Michael Fremer I have become a fan of shorter arms. Distortion over all is lower because shorter arms have a much lower polar moment of inertia. The lower frequency irregularities of the vinyl are ignored by short arms. But with an oscilloscope you can easily read it with more massive arms even if the cartridge is matched.
I would go with the 4 point 9.