Jbhiller...yes I did dampen the things if only to get mrdecibel off my back! It was interesting as I'd never used Dynamat before and the operation does make sense...I'm always up for logical and inexpensive tweaks, especially if reversible which the Dynamat clearly is, so you have nothing to lose except a finger maybe. The Fortes are worth opening up as it's cool to see the detail and professionalism used in Klipsch USA construction...if they're anything like the Heresy IIIs you'll see clean and sophisticated innards with high quality wire and generally clean construction, and I always take any new thing apart anyway...tighten speaker bolts or screws, etc.
Klipsch Forte III--Pleasantly Surprised
First off, I have to say that I always had significant bias against Klipsch speakers. I thought maybe some of the Heritage Series were possibly decent, but in no way audiophile grade.
I recently bought a pair of Forte’s in distressed white oak. They look super vintage and the grills are very tasteful. My impetus for the purchase was I moved to a house this past spring that has a dedicated music room for me, and I wanted to experiment seeking a bigger sound as the room is large (25 long x 15 wide x 10 foot high ceilings). My system is the following:
Winter: Primaluna Dialgoue HP Premium Integrated,
Summer: Schitt Freya, NAD M51
Constant Year Long: Bluesound Node 2, NAD M22 DAC, Manley Chinook Phono Pre, Technics 1200 GAE Turntable, AudioTechnica ART9 Cartridge.
I’m really enjoying the Forte IIIs out of the boxes. I haven’t even tried them out with with tube amps (only tube pre) yet. I thought they would be fatiguing and have tons of bass. The treble spectrum (midrange northbound) is sweet and doesn’t sound cupped. The bass is perfectly integrated but not as prominent as I’d expected. The soundstage is seamless and they are not fussy about positioning.
The other thing that surprised me was how much of the NAD M22 juice I can use. I thought that I’d never move volume much due to the whopping power of the NAD M22--not true. So this is making me curious--what will happen when I hook up my 300B tube integrated? I think it has 8W per side. Will I miss the NAD’s power? That’s going to be fun experiment.
And, it’s going to be super interesting to try the Primaluna integrated with them. I can’t wait to see if I like my KT150s or EL34 variants better.
I’m not going to give some glowing review because it’s too soon and I’ve learned some speakers may sound so so with one system and great with another and even more so with different rooms. There is, however, a big takeaway for me personally: I can use reviews as guides but you have to try stuff out in your room with your stuff to really know. I recently sold a near mint pair of KEF LS50s because my $500 Wharfedale Dentons just sang better with my Creek integrated in the specific room they are in (downstairs system). And that doesn't say anything about the KEFs--they are still amazing boxes.
I recently bought a pair of Forte’s in distressed white oak. They look super vintage and the grills are very tasteful. My impetus for the purchase was I moved to a house this past spring that has a dedicated music room for me, and I wanted to experiment seeking a bigger sound as the room is large (25 long x 15 wide x 10 foot high ceilings). My system is the following:
Winter: Primaluna Dialgoue HP Premium Integrated,
Summer: Schitt Freya, NAD M51
Constant Year Long: Bluesound Node 2, NAD M22 DAC, Manley Chinook Phono Pre, Technics 1200 GAE Turntable, AudioTechnica ART9 Cartridge.
I’m really enjoying the Forte IIIs out of the boxes. I haven’t even tried them out with with tube amps (only tube pre) yet. I thought they would be fatiguing and have tons of bass. The treble spectrum (midrange northbound) is sweet and doesn’t sound cupped. The bass is perfectly integrated but not as prominent as I’d expected. The soundstage is seamless and they are not fussy about positioning.
The other thing that surprised me was how much of the NAD M22 juice I can use. I thought that I’d never move volume much due to the whopping power of the NAD M22--not true. So this is making me curious--what will happen when I hook up my 300B tube integrated? I think it has 8W per side. Will I miss the NAD’s power? That’s going to be fun experiment.
And, it’s going to be super interesting to try the Primaluna integrated with them. I can’t wait to see if I like my KT150s or EL34 variants better.
I’m not going to give some glowing review because it’s too soon and I’ve learned some speakers may sound so so with one system and great with another and even more so with different rooms. There is, however, a big takeaway for me personally: I can use reviews as guides but you have to try stuff out in your room with your stuff to really know. I recently sold a near mint pair of KEF LS50s because my $500 Wharfedale Dentons just sang better with my Creek integrated in the specific room they are in (downstairs system). And that doesn't say anything about the KEFs--they are still amazing boxes.
103 responses Add your response
@oldschoolsounds, many speaker companies use a " ring " between the driver and the cabinet ( foam, rubber, paper/cardboard ), but I believe it is used to suppress energy from the driver to the cabinet, and the reverse, to suppress energy from the cabinet to the driver. I also believe it is used to create a better " seal " between the two. If some folks are calling that bracing, I will not argue, although that is not my definition of bracing. A set of Polk towers I have use these rings behind the woofers when mounting. If I recall, my pair of Klipsch CF2s ( Epics ) also use them. I have tried it many times, and in some instances I heard a difference, and in some I did not. @wolf_garcia ,I remember now, making you an offer you could not refuse. I also warned you it might destroy scissors, and please apologize to your wife. And, for your very logical reasoning, I will continue to post, especially when it comes to Klipsch. I will try and add some "humor " next time. Thank you, and Enjoy ! MrD. |
@wolf_garcia Did you dampen your Heresy IIIs? It looks like you said you did but I couldn't tell with all of your humor! I'd be open to dampening my Forte IIIs but I'd like to hear and see about it first. I've never cracked them open. Tonight, if I get time, I'm going to run a homemade 300b amp into the Forte IIIs. I put high end parts into the amp (Mundorf premium caps, Takman resistors) and it has a really nice layout internally with massive transformers (power and output). I'm curious to see if I get some magic going. |
Mrdecibel: You gave me no choice in the damping thing, so I expect you to issue an apology to my wife as I gummed up her favorite scissors...they got un-gummed...still...took some "splainin'". The term "detained" means they are held in my listening room and have very little chance of escape (I generally fear they could try to get back to Arkansas if allowed). Detailed was a more apt term, so yeah...detailed. And please continue posting as these posts are one of the few bastions of defense against the anti-Klipsch horn movement that exists in the demented minds of the mindlessly demented. |
MrD, Dampening the midrange horns on my Forte I's helped with detail, openness and the like at moderate to louder volumes. I mentioned earlier that I replaced the factory Forte I K53/K701 combination from an earlier Heresy. The driver was better made and sounding, but I was surprised that the K-701 horn had fewer outside ribs for bracing in the mold. Seems the Klipsch engineers took steps to reduce resonance by beefing up the bracing in later versions of the horn. The midrange compression driver on a Forte I is only about a 1/16th of an inch from the back inside wall of the cabinet. (Not sure if the geometry is the same on later generations with a tractrix horn). Recently I read that loosening the mounting screws and inserting a thin piece of compressible foam behind the driver and then re-tightening the mounting screws helps with "bracing" for a clearer sound. Have you given this a try? |
jbhiller, Thanks for letting me know what equipment is giving you the results you've described. The Bluesound Node 2 has come up on other discussions, so I will take your advise and start with that for streaming using its own DAC. The first "hifi" cartridge I got in the mid-70s was AudioTechnica's then second from the top model with Shibata stylus, (back when most cartridges where moving magnet). It was the best component in my system and in college several people would bring their albums over to hear it on my stereo, so you've invested well. You are right that horns do dynamics better than detail, but the "live" factor of a live recording and energy of their sound is great. Glad you're enjoying the fun factor they bring to music. If you want to get back to more of a monitor sound for instrument placement, nuances, etc., but retain some of the dynamics of horns, the Altec 604-G speakers are hard to beat, especially in the larger 620 cabinet. If you have heard them yourself, you can see why they where the most popular speaker for studio monitors for years. Thanks again for your help and enjoy the music. |
wolf, a typo I am sure. Detained, detailed. I am happy, if you guys want to do damping, that is up to you. I am happy if you do not. It was, and still is, a very significant tweak Klipsch owners have been doing for 50 or so years ( I am not the only one ), in eliminating the ringing ( in the early metal horns ) and the resonances ( in the now poly plastic horns ) making them cleaner, smoother and more detailed. It also effects the entire front baffle in doing the same. I might not know much, but I do know Klipsch ( Heritage ), and if my posts are no longer wanted by some of you, just say so. My feelings are not hurt, but sometimes appreciation of knowledge is nice. Yes, very little, if none at all, brevity. Enjoy ! MrD. |
The Heresy III horn damping process is interesting, and worth it if only to make mrdecibel happy depending of course on how important his happiness is to you. They do sound somewhat smoother, and I should have done an A/B test before damping the second horn as I no longer remember the pre-damped sound...meh...these are astonishingly detained speakers, and really come into their own once you really listen to them over time...they will not sweeten a harsh recording, nor should any speaker do that, but with well sorted gear they will allow a truly accurate and coherent representation of recordings into your earballs, which is a good thing. Detail is right there with Heresy IIIs, as I can hear stuff previously buried in the mix...I use a tube preamp and a simple SE tube power amp and they really shine with Heresy IIIs to a degree that nothing among the great speakers I've previously owned can match. Maybe it's the efficiency, maybe it's the horn and crossover design, but these things are absolutely a high end bargain speaker. |
Oldschoolsound, For streaming, I use the Bluesound Node2, feeding and NAD M22 DAC. If I were you, I would try the Bluesound. It's internal DAC is really splendid and there's nothing wrong with it. I'm not aware (it may exist) of a product that does what the Bluesound does for the price. It's a highly musical piece. For vinyl, I have an AudioTechnica ART9 moving coil cartridge (about $900) and a Manley Chinook phono preamp. Of all the audio that I've owned, I think the biggest leaps have come from a great phono pre and in better cartridges (note--I have not gotten into the super price carts yet...let's say >$1500). I should tell you that I heard a couple of things today on Tidal/MQA that did clearly beat out vinyl. If, however, I have a good pressing of something that's well recorded, vinyl typically wins. More holographic sound and an easier sounding room filling nature. I should also note that while the Forte IIIs are just the ticket for my room and system right now, they don't do super detail. For example, I auditioned PSB Imgaine T3s (I own T2s) and they carved out instruments in isolation way more. Someone would play a four note guitar motif and drop it in after a lyric and it just hung in the air. That doesn't happen with the Klipsch Forte III. Instead, the Forte III just keeps moving right along churning out one big, giant picture of sound. It's very different and I like both approaches. Right now, I want to be bathed and washed over in sound, rather than analyze nuances. This isn't to say the Forte IIIs aren't detailed. They are. They just don't highlight things in isolation. The are certainly super cohesive and have much texture/timbre. |
MrD, I am definitely clearing out the cobwebs in my mind regarding audio gear from when I was first active in hifi decades ago. Yes, you are right, it is a radiator design, and as I recall, we called it a passive radiator. Thanks for the correction and keeping things accurate! A reason some may include the Forte, at least the Forte I, in the Heritage line (including the Klipsch marketing team) is it used the same tweeter (K-75-K) and midrange (K-53) drivers, along with the same horns that were used in the Heresy. So the Forte I looked like a taller version of the Heresy. In fact, I put a pair of earlier era Heresy K-53 drivers in my Forte I based on comments that the earlier components were of better quality. It may be since Klipsch has used different manufactures for their drivers over the years, but the driver's structure from the Heresy seemed better made and the leads were soldered on vs. the use of male/female spades. An A/B comparison using a mono recording gave the Heritage version an edge in smoothness, at least to my ears and trying to be unbiased as possible. Didn't the Heresy get its name for being the first Klipsch speaker designed not to be placed in a corner (as in contrary to the others)? jbhiller, Thanks for letting me know that vinyl still wins out. For reference, would you mind sharing what phono preamp and cartridge combination you are using? Also, since this will be my first time streaming Tidal MQA, which streamer do you have? Glad to see you've made additional improvements with your tube rolling. You may have tried this already, but elevating the speakers so the tweeter is at ear level in your listening position can bring some additional clarity and openness. This may be more true with my Forte I's which do not have the tractrix midrange horn, but still worth the effort since horns typically have a narrower vertical frequency response coverage pattern than a cone or dome driver. |
To update, I have now engaged in tube rolling to tune my tube amp and the Forte IIIs. I moved out Tung Sol 7581a's and put in KT150s. Strangely, the KT150s do not sound bright or harsh. They have really upped the bass--tighter and glowing. My guess is the extra wattage generated by the KT150s is adding more control and headroom so they aren't coming across as harsh. |
My response will lack brevity, as indicated by wolf. The Forte line ( and Chorus line ) are not bass reflex designs. They use sub bass radiators ( rear ) which are operating on the acoustic pressure being generated by the active woofers ( front ) within the sealed cabinets. Bass reflex is another design ( think Cornwall ). Enjoy ! MrD. |
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@oldschoolsound, Vinyl is unquestionably smoother and more ethereal regardless of solid state v tubes. But, my sense (and I'm not sure) is that my phono preamp is doing a great job. It's also tube based and of any upgrade I've done it made the most difference. I know a phono preamp seems like the least sexy thing to buy; it was. It's one of the most valuable pieces in my system. Tidal using MQA masters is really, really good. In fact, with the right recordings it's near spectacular. I do, however, still prefer vinyl. On my older rig, the NAD/Tidal masters edged out vinyl at even rate (say 1 in 2 recordings). The phono pre made the difference. Some guy on here told me that was my weak link. He was right. |
jbhiler, Thank you for the specific details on you impression of the Forte III's with your different gear and sources. I'm glad you gave them a try and are enjoying the dynamics that efficient speakers and horns are capable of. As you've discovered, these type of speakers, (provided they were quality brands like Klipsch or Altec), seem to sound their best matched with tubes. Since the 1970s I have preferred that sound myself and currently have a pair of Forte I's that I fitted with Bob Crite's crossovers and titanium tweeters which helped bring them closer to your description of the III's. Their well designed bass reflex set-up provides some of the best bass you'll hear for their size, whether it was back in the 1980s or today. Unfortunately, I gave away my extended, well cared for record collection of the 1970s for the convince of CD's as it seemed I had more time in high school and college to listen to music then when I started working. Currently I am modifying a turntable to get back into vinyl, but have heard good things about Tidal/MQA. My question is if the difference you described when you compared vinyl to Tidal/MQA using the NAD M22 is as noticeable using your Primaluna? Thanks, and hope you enjoy your building record collection with the Forte III's. |
@maccamera, Your experience is similar to mine. I was using PSB Imagine T2s. I loved them in my old house (just moved this past spring), but I couldn’t get them to sound as good in a much larger room. I tried upping watts, moving from tube to solid state, tons of positioning, etc. They still sounded really good, but I was missing warmth and they weren’t filling the larger space right. I think a sub bass system (REL) would have been the next step had I not taken the plunge on Forte IIIs. I always had a bias against Klipsch as non-audiophile. I loved British and Candadian speakers (used Totems, Monitor Audio, B&W, Epos, and wanted Spendors). I always thought of Klipsch as similar to Cerwin Vega and not high end, placing JBL way ahead of them. The Forte IIIs are superb. If someone out there is on the fence or just curious (and can afford to play around a bit) I’d urge a test drive in your room. My experience was really great with solid state, but maybe shy of amazing with tubes (Primaluna integrated). I was also previously thinking of moving to Spendor D7s or PSB Imagine T3s. Maybe that’s a curiousity I’ll have to explore someday. But I’m very pleased with the Forte IIIs and, like you, only want to buy more vinyl. What really impresses me with the Fortes is the height and width of the musical picture. It’s just huge. Music fills the space like air would let out of a tank. The music does not come at me from the direction of the speakers. If anyone is in the Chicagoland area and wanted to hear them in my dedicated room I’d love to do it. You should bring me a six pack of beer though. :) I’d love to hear someone else’s view of them and whether they had similar thoughts before and after hearing them. |
I’ve felt like I have been on a lonely Forte iii island for a few months now. Couldn’t find any forums or peeps that were into them. But I have been. My system is modest, Arcam 380, McIntosh 7100, Parasound JC3 jr., VPI Scout 2. My room acoustics are janky at best. Too much glass and forced uneven speaker placement. For a couple years I had Spendor A5Rs hooked up to this system. It sounded good...but was just not FULL. Never warm. A piano was very precise, but, almost like the strings themselves were mic’d up. Then I decided to try the Forte iiis because a salesmen told me they had none of the shoutiness people complain about with Klipsch. On the very first play, game changer in my system. A piano no longer was just strings. I could hear the ENTIRE piano. Meaning the resonance of the wood and full shape of a high stick open baby grand in my living room. As for horns (I listen to a lot of jazz and classic rock), it’s as if these speakers were created for Miles, Coltrane, and Dexter Gordon. I have no idea if horn speakers have a symbiotic existence with horn instruments, but, man do these ever go together well. I haven’t owned tons of other speaks, like I said they replaced Spendors, but after I bought these I quit tinkering with my system. I no longer try to find flaws or adjustments. I just use them and enjoy them and use my money on vinyl. |
After about 36 hours of break in I've noticed the bass has come alive. The midrange and treble haven't changed to what I can tell. I was thinking that I was going to be contemplating a sub-bass addition--e.g. REL unit--until Sunday night. I kept playing the same songs from a playlist when I took notes and evaluated where sonics were at. The bass has gone from fair but weak to strong. |
Roxy54...I was noting you used the symbol " for a dimension description, one that is universally used as inches and not feet. Therefore I made a silly yet astonishingly hilarious comment regarding this gaff, which clearly spread joy and mirth to all corners of this thread. I will note for future comments that you have the ability to chew the fun out of my gum. |
If you think that George, you haven’t heard them all. I had an all day sessions at a "Klipsch Nut’s" man cave with K-Horns, LaScala, Belle, and Heresy, none of these were as musical to me as the Forte II’s were, they all just shouted at me where the Forte did not. I must admit I didn’t know about the Chorus, it looks to me just like a larger extension of the Forte, which should be great. Cheers George |
I thought that I’d drop a note about my first weekend with these guys. Vinyl sounded better than Tidal/MQA. I have a great phono pre in the Manley Chinook. My DAC is no slouch. I’m not sure if a better DAC would help narrow the gap, but vinyl had more air, better midrange and more believable bass. There is a clarity with vinyl with these in my rig. With my PSB Imagine T2s, vinyl v. Tidal/MQA challenge each other and the victor was decided album to album. Here, the Forte IIIs just sound better with vinyl. I had a good listening night with 75% vinyl and 25% digital. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to all sorts of music. Voices, horns, and certain percussion stuff sounds fantastic with the Fortes. With digital, I felt like I was sitting 25 rows back and looking into a diorama of the show. Everything was there but in a tight box that I had to look into through a view finder. With vinyl, I was sitting in the same room as opposed to at a larger venue or through that viewfinder. The sound was taller, wider and more ethereal. My mind’s eye seemed to be viewing a large screen as opposed to looking into the diorama or framed picture of the performance. The Fortes did a great job in displaying massive amounts of air and space in the performance. But why such a difference between vinyl and digital? Again, when the PSB Imagine T2s were in my system, vinyl would best digital more times than not yet digital was much more palatable than with the Fortes. I closed the 4 hour session thinking these were fun, listenable speakers that keep music the priority. Then my curiosity got me...how would these sound with my Primaluna Dialogue HP Premium? I fired up the Primaluna today and my first reaction was there is much more texture with the Primaluna. With the NAD M22 everything is clean and clear--so much so that I’d describe the overall color like a daylight lumen colored lightbulb whereas the PL was a warmer, lower lumen bulb. I'm glad the weather is cooler because I want to keep the PL in the chain now. Everything is so smooth, warm and still tight with the PL. And the texture seals the decision. |
@drumnman2, Placement affects imaging with these speakers less than average in my opinion. While I don't think they image as good as other speakers, they do image well. I'd say a B+. When stuff is mixed with something hard left or hard right, they do it properly and holographically. Disclaimer--in my system in my room. |
Roxy54...I think a 20" long room, at less than 2 feet, is somewhat smallish. Also, I hope to never ask mrdecibel about anything in the Oxford English Dictionary as the answer might lack brevity. And thirdly (thirdly?), I own a pair of these and I can say without a doubt the Heresy IIIs are great speakers, especially matched with the brilliantly carefully selected fabulous amps and things I use with them...Georgehifi hurt my feelings a little...*sniff*... |
@br3098 The Klipsch marketing department obviously added some models to the Heritage line, signifying they were / are built in the USA. As a Klipsch Heritage " old timer ", the models listed in the post I made available above are the " Heritage "models, all " originally " designed by PWK himself. I understand the brochure you speak of, and, their web site does list the Forte 111 under the Heritage line. I should have stated "original ". I apologize, as I was wrong. Enjoy ! MrD. |
From Klipsch :
X. HERITAGE PRODUCTION NOTES & TIME LINES: 1. HERESY:
2. CORNWALL:
3. LASCALA:
4. BELLE KLIPSCH:
6. KLIPSCHORN:
2008+: There have been a number of “special editions” produced, and Klipsch has transitioned the crossovers to a more modern design. For information on the recent changes, please go to the website (Klipsch.com) for product information. Enjoy ! MrD.
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br3098 Here’s a pair of Klipsch Chorus MkII’s for sale, if they were in Australia they’d be mine by now, they have passive in the back instead of ports in the front like the MkI. Same happened in the later Forte, it’s better for bass and no port noise either. https://www.ebay.com/itm/263857243218?rmvSB=true Cheers George |
I am a soundstage and imaging hound as people well know. That was surprisingly not an issue at my Forte III demo. Speakers were a few feet out from rear and side walls. Setup is everything with any speaker when it comes to that. I’ve even learned how to get my old school box design refurbed Ohm Ls to do that trick well in recent years. |
I love the Klipsch Heritage line. Not a polite, refined sound but big and brassy. Great for jazz and hot vaocals. The Forte II/III is a great speaker, but IMO the Chorus just sounds better. A little larger and weighs a LOT more than the Forte, there aren't many for sale on the used market. But they are worth the wait. |
My dealer carries the Klipsch Heritage series in his store. W/the Forte III he likes to partner w/a Prima Luna Integrated. Sounds fantastic. But on slow day when I was there he fooled around w/some amps to match up w/the Forte. From his home he brought in his own Shindo Montille amp. Jaw dropping. Beat anything he hooked up. Some of the best sound I ever had. |
Man, this thread is killing me and possibly my wallet. I’ve always been a fan of the Fortes going back to the 80s. I’m debating swapping out my early 90s KEF Reference 2s for a pair. My family room setup is modest: -Yamaha AVR1060 (as preamp and for HT amps) -Parasound Halo A23 (driving mains) -Node 2 -Pro-Ject Debut Carbon -HSU VTF-3 MKII sub What else in that price range should I be looking at new or used? Being a family room setup it has to pull some light HT duty too (currently 5.1.2). I like mostly classic rock, jazz, old school R&B amongst some newer stuff. My room is about 22’ish x 25’ish with an open side to the kitchen area. The Forte IIIs are my first choice if I make the change. Thanks. |
I listen to a pr the other day. Was driven by the new Anthem pre and amp. I didn't notice any of the always talked about brightness of Klipsch. Was listening to some jazz and the brushes were so crisp and clean with great attack. But I noticed that imaging was not too great. A song I know for some drum hits 2 ft outside the speakers were coming directly from the speakers. The room was fairly medium sized and speakers seemed to be in a good place. Is this how they are or could it have just been the room ? |
