First off, I have to say that I always had significant bias against Klipsch speakers. I thought maybe some of the Heritage Series were possibly decent, but in no way audiophile grade.
I recently bought a pair of Forte’s in distressed white oak. They look super vintage and the grills are very tasteful. My impetus for the purchase was I moved to a house this past spring that has a dedicated music room for me, and I wanted to experiment seeking a bigger sound as the room is large (25 long x 15 wide x 10 foot high ceilings). My system is the following:
Winter: Primaluna Dialgoue HP Premium Integrated, Summer: Schitt Freya, NAD M51 Constant Year Long: Bluesound Node 2, NAD M22 DAC, Manley Chinook Phono Pre, Technics 1200 GAE Turntable, AudioTechnica ART9 Cartridge.
I’m really enjoying the Forte IIIs out of the boxes. I haven’t even tried them out with with tube amps (only tube pre) yet. I thought they would be fatiguing and have tons of bass. The treble spectrum (midrange northbound) is sweet and doesn’t sound cupped. The bass is perfectly integrated but not as prominent as I’d expected. The soundstage is seamless and they are not fussy about positioning.
The other thing that surprised me was how much of the NAD M22 juice I can use. I thought that I’d never move volume much due to the whopping power of the NAD M22--not true. So this is making me curious--what will happen when I hook up my 300B tube integrated? I think it has 8W per side. Will I miss the NAD’s power? That’s going to be fun experiment.
And, it’s going to be super interesting to try the Primaluna integrated with them. I can’t wait to see if I like my KT150s or EL34 variants better.
I’m not going to give some glowing review because it’s too soon and I’ve learned some speakers may sound so so with one system and great with another and even more so with different rooms. There is, however, a big takeaway for me personally: I can use reviews as guides but you have to try stuff out in your room with your stuff to really know. I recently sold a near mint pair of KEF LS50s because my $500 Wharfedale Dentons just sang better with my Creek integrated in the specific room they are in (downstairs system). And that doesn't say anything about the KEFs--they are still amazing boxes.
I’ve liked them very much in the two dealer auditions I’ve had. No obvious faults so far. You can really hear the differences in recordings which impresses me. This with just a very modest AV amp only even.
They have a lot of competition at their price point and are fairly big and bulky. The big and bulky part is the biggest negative for me.
Once you get beyond a smaller room you cannot fairly compare sound delivered by tiny but very high quality Kef ls50 and Klispch Forte. Forte III would work well in my larger rooms while ls50 would require a powered sub or two. I auditioned teh KEFs in there and the sound was thin and very disappointing. Sounded great in my smaller room (12X12).
I listen to a pr the other day. Was driven by the new Anthem pre and amp. I didn't notice any of the always talked about brightness of Klipsch. Was listening to some jazz and the brushes were so crisp and clean with great attack. But I noticed that imaging was not too great. A song I know for some drum hits 2 ft outside the speakers were coming directly from the speakers. The room was fairly medium sized and speakers seemed to be in a good place. Is this how they are or could it have just been the room ?
Man, this thread is killing me and possibly my wallet. I’ve always been a fan of the Fortes going back to the 80s. I’m debating swapping out my early 90s KEF Reference 2s for a pair. My family room setup is modest: -Yamaha AVR1060 (as preamp and for HT amps) -Parasound Halo A23 (driving mains) -Node 2 -Pro-Ject Debut Carbon -HSU VTF-3 MKII sub
What else in that price range should I be looking at new or used? Being a family room setup it has to pull some light HT duty too (currently 5.1.2). I like mostly classic rock, jazz, old school R&B amongst some newer stuff. My room is about 22’ish x 25’ish with an open side to the kitchen area. The Forte IIIs are my first choice if I make the change.
My dealer carries the Klipsch Heritage series in his store. W/the Forte III he likes to partner w/a Prima Luna Integrated. Sounds fantastic. But on slow day when I was there he fooled around w/some amps to match up w/the Forte. From his home he brought in his own Shindo Montille amp. Jaw dropping. Beat anything he hooked up. Some of the best sound I ever had.
I love the Klipsch Heritage line. Not a polite, refined sound but big and brassy. Great for jazz and hot vaocals.
The Forte II/III is a great speaker, but IMO the Chorus just sounds better. A little larger and weighs a LOT more than the Forte, there aren't many for sale on the used market. But they are worth the wait.
There is a pair of Forte II's near me for $550..............hmmm. They maybe worth a punt as i have never heard, actually any Klipsch other than the Klipschorn.
I am a soundstage and imaging hound as people well know. That was surprisingly not an issue at my Forte III demo. Speakers were a few feet out from rear and side walls. Setup is everything with any speaker when it comes to that. I’ve even learned how to get my old school box design refurbed Ohm Ls to do that trick well in recent years.
br3098 The Forte II/III is a great speaker, but IMO the Chorus just sounds better.
Here’s a pair of Klipsch Chorus MkII’s for sale, if they were in Australia they’d be mine by now, they have passive in the back instead of ports in the front like the MkI. Same happened in the later Forte, it’s better for bass and no port noise either.
Just to be clear, the Fortes are not part of the Heritage line. However, the Forte, Chorus and Epic series were all good designs. The Heritage series consists / consisted of : Klipschorn, Belle, Lascala, Cornwall and Heresy. Enjoy ! MrD.
mrdecibel said:"
Just to be clear, the Fortes are not part of the Heritage line."
I'm looking at a Klipsch brochure from 1991 titled Klipsch Heritage Speakers and it lists the following models: Khorn, La Scala, Belle, Chorus II, Forte II, Quartet and Heresy II.
1957: The Heresy is introduced as a center channel for the Klipschorn. It is the first Klipsch speaker that does not require corner placement. This model utilized the K-1000 midrange horn. These are rare, and one example in the Museum in Hope is the rarest of all the Klipsch Heritage speakers.
1957 - 1959: Both 8" and 12" woofer versions were produced during this period.
1967 - The H-700 is introduced in the now familiar format using a 12" K-22 woofer (There were several variants used E, EF, K) K-700 horn; K-55-V mid-range and the K-77 (T-35 type Alnico magnet) tweeter.
From this date through the end of the model run in 1985, various networks were used: Type C, Type E and Type E-2. All were variations on the same design.
1972-1973: The Heresy's name is changed from H-700 to Heresy.
1983-1984: The K-24 woofer is substituted for the K-22, and during the last production of the Heresy-I, the midrange K-53/701 is substituted for the K-55/700.
1985: The Heresy II is introduced using a mid-range and tweeter driver set that, for the first time since the introduction of the H-700 differed from that of the Klipschorn. Component designations were: Woofer K-24-K, Midrange K-701 horn and K-52 driver (the mid range assembly was also stamped K-53 on the driver). The tweeter is K-75-K horn and K-76 driver. This was the first Heresy model to discontinue the use the traditional alpha numeric network designations (Type E-2). All of the drivers in the Heresy II were front mounted to reduce the diffraction effects caused by rear mounting and firing through the motor board.
May 2001: Finish, grill and riser variant options are reduced from nearly 100 to 10.
Sept 29, 2005: The Heresy III is introduced featuring increased sensitivity (3dB), Titanium mid-range and tweeter diaphragms, Tractrix tweeter horn and bi-wire inputs. Component designations are: Woofer K-28-E, Midrange K-53-Ti (K-701 horn and K-53-Ti driver), Tweeter K-107-Ti (K-79-T horn and K-100-Ti driver). Finish, grille and riser variations are further reduced from 10 to 3.
May 2006: The Heresy III midrange compression driver is sourced to a new supplier and the network is revised to compensate for the change.
2008+: There have been a number of improvements produced, and Klipsch has transitioned the crossovers to a more modern design. For information on the recent changes, please go to the website (Klipsch.com) for product information.
2. CORNWALL:
Oct 1959: The Cornwall is introduced as the world's second commercially produced center speaker. A speaker with higher output capability than the Heresy was needed when used in three speaker arrays between Klipschorn’s. Component designations: Woofer EV 15WK, Midrange K-1000 Horn and University SAHF Driver, Tweeter K-77
Late 1959: Transition to the K-33-J Woofer (Jensen)
1959 - 1961: Sporadic transition to the K-55-V mid-range driver (Atlas)
Jan 1963: The K-1000 diffraction type midrange horn was replaced with the exponential K-600 horn with a lower (600 Hz) cutoff.
Sept 1967: Transition to the K-33-M. The records are not clear as to the origin of this driver but it is believed to be an Eminence driver with an Alnico magnet.
Jan 1968: Transition to The K-33-P Woofer (CTS Paducah KY)
1974: The horizontal version of the Cornwall is discontinued
1974: K-56 mid-range driver (Electrovoice 1828) is used for a short period as a temporary replacement as the supply of K-55-V drivers was interrupted.
1975: Transition to The K-33-B Woofer (CTS Brownsville TX)
1975-1979: K-33-E and the K-33-B were used interchangeably.
1979: The Eminence K-33-E woofer is used exclusively
June 1981: The updated B2 network, with steeper crossover slopes is phased in with no changes to the K-33-E, K-55-V and K-77-M drivers.
Oct 1981 - March 1983: The transition between four different iterations of the midrange driver from revolving sources occurs during this period. The original K-55-V was changed to a K-51-V (10/19/81) This marked the first time in the Cornwall's history that it used a driver set that differed from that of the Klipschorn. The K-51-V was then changed to the K-55-G (essentially a ceramic magnet version of the Atlas Alnico K-55-V). The K-55-G was then changed to the Hepner built K-52-H and finally the Klipsch built K-52-K.
Mar 1983: The B-3 network and the K-52 midrange driver starts to be used in this model. Component designations were: Woofer Eminence K-33-E, Midrange K-57-K (K-600 Aluminum horn and K-52-K driver with the threaded snout), Tweeter K-77-M and B-3 network.
Jan 1986: The Cornwall II is introduced featuring front mounted drivers to reduce baffle induced diffraction effects. Component designations were: Woofer Eminence K-34-E (K-33-E with a dressy pad ring), Midrange K-57-K (K-601 plastic horn and K-52-K driver), Tweeter K-79-K (K-75-K horn and K-79 driver) and CW II network.
1990: The Cornwall II is discontinued
Mar 2006: The Cornwall III is introduced marking the end of the Cornwall's 15 year absence from the market. This version utilizes the Klipschorn woofer, the horn and driver set from the Heresy III (featuring Titanium diaphragms and a Tractrix® tweeter horn) and bi-wire inputs. Component designations are: Woofer K-33-E, Midrange K-53-Ti (K-701 horn and K-53-Ti driver), Tweeter K-107-Ti (K-79-T horn and K-100-Ti driver).
2008+: There have been a number of newer models produced, and Klipsch has transitioned the crossovers to a more modern design. For information on the recent changes, please go to the website (Klipsch.com) for product information.
3. LASCALA:
1963: The La Scala is designed as a portable version of the Klipschorn to be used as a P.A. system for Winthrop Rockefeller's Arkansas gubernatorial campaign. Component designations were: Woofer K-33-J (Jensen), Midrange K-400 horn and K-55-V driver (Atlas), Tweeter K-77 (Electrovoice).
1966: The designation for the Type 1RC crossover network was changed to Type A.
Sept 1967: Transition to the K-33-M. The records are not clear as to the origin of this driver but it is believed to be an Eminence driver with an Alnico magnet.
Jan 1968: Transition to The K-33-P Woofer (CTS Paducah KY)
1971: The Type AA crossover network was introduced featuring Sneer diode tweeter protection.
1974: K-56 mid-range driver (Electrovoice 1828) is used for a short period as a temporary replacement as the supply of K-55-V drivers was interrupted.
1975: Transition to The K-33-B Woofer (CTS Brownsville TX)
1975? - 1979: K-33-E (Eminence) and the K-33-B were used interchangeably.
1979: The Eminence K-33-E woofer is used exclusively.
1983: The Type AL crossover network was introduced incorporating steeper filter slopes for enhanced tweeter protection and smoother response in the crossover regions.
1983: The Type AL-2 network was introduced to accommodate the new K-55-M mid-range driver. This Electrovoice sourced driver was essentially the same as the previous K-55-V with a smoother response.
1987: The aluminum K-400 horn was replaced with the K-401 structural foam horn resulting in slightly improved distortion figures.
1989: The AL-3 network was introduced to correct for a shift in the output of the K-55-M mid-range driver.
2000: Electrovoice ceases production of the K-77-M and K-55-M tweeter and mid-range drivers. The search for replacement drivers and the acquisition of the EV tooling is sought. Very limited production of a few pairs occurs at the end of 2000 and the early months of 2001 using existing part stocks
May 2001: The Atlas PD-5VH (Current version of the previous K-55-V) is modified slightly and christened the K-55-X. The various components of the K-77-M tweeter are either retooled or sourced from the new owners of the tooling and assembled by a third party. This variant of the tweeter is designated the K-77-F. An entirely new network (AL-4) was created to accommodate these driver changes. Fusing is eliminated in favor of a polyswitch for tweeter protection. The tweeter on the La Scala was flush mounted for the first time using "Z" brackets. A metal input panel with binding posts in a bi-wire configuration replaced the traditional screw type barrier block.
Dec 2005: The La Scala II debuted as the first "finished" version of this model featuring a two piece veneered cabinet utilizing 1" MDF instead of the traditional 3/4" plywood. The AL-5 network was introduced to compensate for the improvement in low frequency response resulting from the change in cabinet construction. The HF and LF cabinets stacked together using thick rubber isolating spacers. Finish variants were reduced from 6 to 3.
April 2006: The horn portion of the K-77-F tweeter was re-tooled to include a recessed flange eliminating the need for the separate "Z" bracket and attachment rivets, the new designation is the K-77-D. This also allowed the updating of pre-Z bracket La Scala’s (prior to May 2001) to flush tweeter status without motor board modification.
2008+: There have been a number of new versions produced, and Klipsch has transitioned the crossovers to a more modern design. For information on the recent changes, please go to the website (Klipsch.com) for product information.
4. BELLE KLIPSCH:
1971: Belle Klipsch was introduced as a more elegant or finished version of the La Scala. Component designations were: Woofer K-33-P (CTS, Paducah KY), Midrange K-500 horn and K-55-V driver (Atlas), Tweeter K-77 (Electrovoice).
July 1971: The Type AA crossover network was introduced featuring Zener diode tweeter protection.
1974: K-56 mid-range driver (Electrovoice 1828) is used for a short period as a temporary replacement as the supply of K-55-V drivers was interrupted.
1975: Transition to The K-33-B Woofer (CTS Brownsville TX)
1975? - 1979: K-33-E (Eminence) and the K-33-B were used interchangeably.
1979: The Eminence K-33-E woofer is used exclusively
Feb 1983: The Type-AB crossover network was introduced incorporating steeper filter slopes for enhanced tweeter protection and smoother response in the crossover regions.
Oct 1983: The Type AB-2 network was introduced to accommodate the new K-55-M mid-range driver. This Electrovoice sourced driver was essentially the same as the previous K-55-V with a smoother response.
2000: Electrovoice ceases production of the K-77-M and K-55-M tweeter and mid-range drivers. The search for replacement drivers and the acquisition of the EV tooling is sought. Very limited production of a few pairs occurs at the end of 2000 and the early months of 2001 using existing part stocks
May 2001: The Atlas PD-5VH (Current version of the previous K-55-V) is modified slightly and christened the K-55-X. The various components of the K-77-M tweeter are either retooled or sourced from the new owners of the tooling and assembled by a third party. This variant of the tweeter is designated the K-77-F. An entirely new network (AB-3) was created to accommodate these driver changes. Fusing is eliminated in favor of a polyswitch for tweeter protection. A metal input panel with binding posts in a bi-wire configuration replaced the traditional screw type barrier block.
Late 2005 - Early 2006: The Belle Klipsch is phased out of production as parts are used up.
6. KLIPSCHORN:
1930: While working In Chile, S.A. PWK was an amateur radio enthusiast. Comparing various types of radio speakers, he recognized the superior efficiency of horns.
1933: Back in the U.S. at Stanford University, PWK made note of a classmates comment that "speakers sound better in a corner".
1934: Still at Stanford, PWK read the Symposium on Auditory Perspective by Bell Telephone Laboratories.
1939-41: The above mentioned facts were blended into a design philosophy. PWK drew pictures and built paper models that were to become the "Klipschorn".
Feb 1940: Paul Klipsch applies for a patent on his first prototype cornerhorn, the X-1. It was during patent "negotiations" that he first learned of prior art cornerhorns. There were several such designs.
1941: While stationed at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds, PWK reviewed and corrected his first manuscript on corner horns. Note: A second design was prototyped as X-2, but was destroyed by termites before meaningful measurements could be made.
May 1942: The first successful prototype (X-3) was built in Paul Klipsch's garage using only hand tools. This basic corner woofer has changed little over the years. This was serial number 1.
Oct 1942: Paul Klipsch applied for a patent on X3.
Feb 1943: Paul received a patent on his first (unsuccessful) prototype, the X-1.
April 1945: A patent was granted for the third prototype (X3) which was to become the Klipschorn.
June 1945: Another patent was applied for describing Paul's second high frequency horn (X-5). This later became the K-5-H horn.
1946: Klipsch and Associates was incorporated.
Early 1947: The first production run of 12 units, serial numbers 2-13 were built to Paul's specifications by the Baldwin Piano & Organ Company of Cincinnati Ohio. The high frequency driver in these was the WE713A. At least one of the woofers was a JBL.
Late 1947 - Early 1948: Seven more serial numbers 14-20 were built by hand in a local cabinet shop. Paul Klipsch recalled that no more than two were alike. It was during these "experiments" that the LF horn's "sinus" cavities were added to the woofer's back air chamber to maximize acoustic capacitance. Component Designations: High frequency Western Electric 713A, Woofer unknown.
June 1948: The first Klipschorn to be built in the first actual Klipsch factory was S/N 121. The building was formerly the telephone exchange building for the Southwest Proving Grounds and is currently the Klipsch Museum of Audio History. Component Designations: The early production logs (1949) first make reference to the use of the Jensen P-15-LL woofer. The production log makes reference to a total of 26 Klipschorn’s built this year.
1949: The Stephens P52LX2 becomes the primary woofer. This driver is used through August of 1953 when the transition to the Stephens 103LX2 was made. The Stephens P15 High frequency driver starts appearing in the logbook.
Aug 1950: The Electrovoice EV 15WK woofer is first referenced in the production logs and is used interchangeably with both of the Stephens woofers and the early K-33-J woofers until March of 1961
1951: The University SAHF replaces the Stephens P15 as the primary high frequency driver.
June 1951: The first three-way Klipschorn incorporated a Jensen RP203 tweeter. This tweeter came from the famous Jensen G-610 Triaxial 15" driver and required considerable negotiations with Jensen. It was not until mid-1952 that all Klipschorn’s were three-way. A two-way Klipschorn with response to 12Khz was generally adequate for program material up to that time. The University MID-T-4401 replaced the Jensen unit as the tweeter of choice later in 1951.
July 1952: The original K-5-H high frequency horn of the patent was modified to become the K-5-J. This involved changing the vertical taper so that the dividers ("boats") could be removed. This resulted in a production cost savings, not an acoustical improvement.
Sept 1952: A cardboard shipping container was used for the first time. Prior to this all Klipschorn’s® were shipped in wooden crates. The last wood crate was used on S/N 912 on June 13, 1955
Aug 1953: The Stephens 103LX2 Woofer starts to be used
1955: K-500 / 5000 network phased out in favor of the 1 RC (Type A network)
Nov 1957 - May 5, 1958: This was the transition period between the University 4401 tweeter and the Electrovoice Alnico magnet T-35 (K-77) which yielded substantially flat response to 17Khz
Aug 1959: The first shipment of Electrovoice T-35 tweeters designated as K-77 is received. The K-77 is first used in S/N 1445 on Oct 15,1959
Nov 1958: Driver polarities were first observed and made consistent. This practice was initiated due to marginal improvements noted during listening tests.
Apr 1960: Transition to the K-33-J Woofer (Jensen) from the EV 15WK began. And University SAHF mid-range drivers started to be designated and labeled as K-55
May - Sept 1961: This was the transition period between the 6" high woofer horn throat and the current 3" high throat. This boosted output in the 400 - 500 Hz range further smoothing the response. Multi-tapered wedges were also added to the woofer throat (opposite side of the motor board from the driver) to further improve the response in this region. The use of these wedges was soon abandoned but the smaller throat dimensions were retained and are in use today.
Nov 1961: The Atlas K-55-V Alnico magnet mid-range driver is introduced. This driver was patterned after the famous Western Electric 555-W.
1963 - May 1964: The K-5-J mid-range horn was replaced with the K-400 resulting in a flatter overall spectral balance, particularly in both crossover regions.
Oct. 24, 1966: The designation for the Type 1RC crossover network was changed to Type A.
Sept 1967: Transition to the K-33-M.
Jan 1968: Transition to The K-33-P Woofer (CTS Paducah KY)
July 1971: The Type AA crossover network was introduced featuring Zener diode tweeter protection.
1975: Transition to The K-33-B Woofer (CTS Brownsville TX)
1975-1979: K-33-E (Eminence) and the K-33-B were used interchangeably. The records are not specific about the actual start date for the K-33-E but it is believed to be in the early to mid 1970's
1979: The Eminence K-33-E woofer is used exclusively
Feb 1, 1983: The two piece Type-AK crossover network was introduced incorporating fusing and steeper filter slopes for enhanced tweeter protection and smoother response in the crossover regions. Heavy gauge (10 AWG) internal wiring was used throughout and binding posts replaced the traditional screw type barrier block as input terminals. The tweeter was flush mounted in the baffle using "Z" brackets. Rubber wall gaskets were added to the sides of the tailboard to improve the seal to less than perfect wall surfaces.
Oct 1983: The Type AK-2 network was introduced to accommodate the new Ceramic Magnet K-55-M mid-range driver. This Electrovoice sourced driver was essentially the same as the previous K-55-V with a ceramic magnet and a smoother response
Apr 1987: The "D" style decorator cabinet (no cosmetic panels or grilles) was discontinued.
Nov 1987: The Aluminum K-400 horn was replaced with the K-401 structural foam horn resulting in slightly improved distortion figures.
Oct 1989: The AK-3 network was introduced to correct for a shift in the output of the K-55-M mid-range driver.
1995: A limited edition of the Klipschorn is produced to mark the 50th anniversary of the company and the Klipschorn. A total of 150 pairs were offered in three different finishes but less than 50 pairs total were sold. The only changes to this model were cosmetic.
Aug 1995: The "C" style cabinet (no intermediate collar or kick plate) was discontinued
2000: Electrovoice ceases production of the K-77-M and K-55-M tweeter and mid-range drivers. The search for replacement drivers and the acquisition of the EV tooling is sought. Very limited production of a few pairs occurs at the end of 2000 and the early months of 2001 using existing part stocks
May 2001: The Atlas PD-5VH (Current version of the previous K-55-V) is modified slightly and christened the K-55-X. The various components of the K-77-M tweeter are either retooled or sourced from the new owners of the tooling and assembled by a third party. This variant of the tweeter is designated the K-77-F. An entirely new one piece network, located on the woofer door, (AK-4) was created to accommodate these driver changes. Fusing is eliminated in favor of a Polyswitch for tweeter protection and a trap circuit was added to tame the longstanding response peak in the middle of the woofer's pass band, resulting in an improved spectral balance. The number of variants available was reduced by the elimination of the Brown and Cane grille cloths and oil finishes.
Dec 2005: The Type AK-5 network was introduced to compensate for the improvement in low frequency response resulting from the addition of a horizontal wall seal to the top of the low frequency cabinet. The style "B" cabinet was discontinued by the elimination of the inset "intermediate collar" and visible "woofer top" panel in favor of a 3/8" gap between the cabinets. The long standing angle brackets, hanger bolts and wing nuts used to attach the HF and LF cabinets together were replaced with thick rubber spacers, on the LF cabinet, indexed into recesses on the HF cabinet.
April 2006: The horn portion of the K-77-F tweeter was re-tooled to include a recessed flange eliminating the need for the separate "Z" bracket and attachment rivets. This also allowed the updating of pre-Z bracket Klipschorn’s (prior to Feb 1,1983) to flush tweeter status without motor board modification. This variant was designated as the K-77-D
April 2006: A special limited edition Klipschorn was produced to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the company and the speaker itself. Low frequency response was enhanced with the addition of rear low frequency horn panels. This eliminated the need for a tight fit into the corner and permitted toe-in and toe-out flexibility for the first time. Additional upgrades were made to the binding posts, internal wiring, and network component specifications. Aesthetic enhancements included a Lacewood veneer finish on the LF cabinet and a high gloss Black finish on the HF cabinet. The traditional wood kick plate was replaced with a machined and anodized Aluminum version containing a Silver finish PWK logo containing a real diamond. The rear of the HF cabinet was totally enclosed with finished panels featuring display windows for a commemorative numbered plaque and the HF network. 200 pairs were produced
2008+: There have been a number of “special editions” produced, and Klipsch has transitioned the crossovers to a more modern design. For information on the recent changes, please go to the website (Klipsch.com) for product information.
@br3098 The Klipsch marketing department obviously added some models to the Heritage line, signifying they were / are built in the USA. As a Klipsch Heritage " old timer ", the models listed in the post I made available above are the " Heritage "models, all " originally " designed by PWK himself. I understand the brochure you speak of, and, their web site does list the Forte 111 under the Heritage line. I should have stated "original ". I apologize, as I was wrong. Enjoy ! MrD.
Sorry for a question to this topic without the Intention of high jacking this post for conversation, but is there a sonic benefit to using a heresy as a centre channel speaker to a pair of Klipschorns?
Roxy54...I think a 20" long room, at less than 2 feet, is somewhat smallish. Also, I hope to never ask mrdecibel about anything in the Oxford English Dictionary as the answer might lack brevity. And thirdly (thirdly?), I own a pair of these and I can say without a doubt the Heresy IIIs are great speakers, especially matched with the brilliantly carefully selected fabulous amps and things I use with them...Georgehifi hurt my feelings a little...*sniff*...
Wolf, "Roxy54...I think a 20" long room, at less than 2 feet, is somewhat smallish." I don't know what you're referencing regarding 2 feet. I was saying that on a wall that I'm sure was at least 20 feet, they didn't need a center channel. What are you saying?
Placement affects imaging with these speakers less than average in my opinion. While I don't think they image as good as other speakers, they do image well. I'd say a B+. When stuff is mixed with something hard left or hard right, they do it properly and holographically. Disclaimer--in my system in my room.
I thought that I’d drop a note about my first weekend with these guys.
Vinyl sounded better than Tidal/MQA. I have a great phono pre in the Manley Chinook. My DAC is no slouch. I’m not sure if a better DAC would help narrow the gap, but vinyl had more air, better midrange and more believable bass. There is a clarity with vinyl with these in my rig. With my PSB Imagine T2s, vinyl v. Tidal/MQA challenge each other and the victor was decided album to album. Here, the Forte IIIs just sound better with vinyl.
I had a good listening night with 75% vinyl and 25% digital. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to all sorts of music. Voices, horns, and certain percussion stuff sounds fantastic with the Fortes. With digital, I felt like I was sitting 25 rows back and looking into a diorama of the show. Everything was there but in a tight box that I had to look into through a view finder.
With vinyl, I was sitting in the same room as opposed to at a larger venue or through that viewfinder. The sound was taller, wider and more ethereal. My mind’s eye seemed to be viewing a large screen as opposed to looking into the diorama or framed picture of the performance. The Fortes did a great job in displaying massive amounts of air and space in the performance. But why such a difference between vinyl and digital? Again, when the PSB Imagine T2s were in my system, vinyl would best digital more times than not yet digital was much more palatable than with the Fortes.
I closed the 4 hour session thinking these were fun, listenable speakers that keep music the priority. Then my curiosity got me...how would these sound with my Primaluna Dialogue HP Premium?
I fired up the Primaluna today and my first reaction was there is much more texture with the Primaluna. With the NAD M22 everything is clean and clear--so much so that I’d describe the overall color like a daylight lumen colored lightbulb whereas the PL was a warmer, lower lumen bulb.
I'm glad the weather is cooler because I want to keep the PL in the chain now. Everything is so smooth, warm and still tight with the PL. And the texture seals the decision.
If you think that George, you haven’t heard them all.
I had an all day sessions at a "Klipsch Nut’s" man cave with K-Horns, LaScala, Belle, and Heresy, none of these were as musical to me as the Forte II’s were, they all just shouted at me where the Forte did not. I must admit I didn’t know about the Chorus, it looks to me just like a larger extension of the Forte, which should be great.
Long time ago means they were NOT Forte IIIs. This is a very different speaker than what you remember. And klipschorns in the right room with the right amp are very different than what you remember.
The Forte iiis sound every bit detailed, image well and have smoothness top to Bottom-with my tube amp. With the NAD masters amp they sounded super dry and clean They almost sound like different speakers with the two different amps.
Roxy54...I was noting you used the symbol " for a dimension description, one that is universally used as inches and not feet. Therefore I made a silly yet astonishingly hilarious comment regarding this gaff, which clearly spread joy and mirth to all corners of this thread. I will note for future comments that you have the ability to chew the fun out of my gum.
After about 36 hours of break in I've noticed the bass has come alive. The midrange and treble haven't changed to what I can tell.
I was thinking that I was going to be contemplating a sub-bass addition--e.g. REL unit--until Sunday night. I kept playing the same songs from a playlist when I took notes and evaluated where sonics were at. The bass has gone from fair but weak to strong.
I’ve felt like I have been on a lonely Forte iii island for a few months now. Couldn’t find any forums or peeps that were into them. But I have been. My system is modest, Arcam 380, McIntosh 7100, Parasound JC3 jr., VPI Scout 2. My room acoustics are janky at best. Too much glass and forced uneven speaker placement. For a couple years I had Spendor A5Rs hooked up to this system. It sounded good...but was just not FULL. Never warm. A piano was very precise, but, almost like the strings themselves were mic’d up. Then I decided to try the Forte iiis because a salesmen told me they had none of the shoutiness people complain about with Klipsch. On the very first play, game changer in my system. A piano no longer was just strings. I could hear the ENTIRE piano. Meaning the resonance of the wood and full shape of a high stick open baby grand in my living room. As for horns (I listen to a lot of jazz and classic rock), it’s as if these speakers were created for Miles, Coltrane, and Dexter Gordon. I have no idea if horn speakers have a symbiotic existence with horn instruments, but, man do these ever go together well. I haven’t owned tons of other speaks, like I said they replaced Spendors, but after I bought these I quit tinkering with my system. I no longer try to find flaws or adjustments. I just use them and enjoy them and use my money on vinyl.
I was using PSB Imagine T2s. I loved them in my old house (just moved this past spring), but I couldn’t get them to sound as good in a much larger room. I tried upping watts, moving from tube to solid state, tons of positioning, etc. They still sounded really good, but I was missing warmth and they weren’t filling the larger space right. I think a sub bass system (REL) would have been the next step had I not taken the plunge on Forte IIIs.
I always had a bias against Klipsch as non-audiophile. I loved British and Candadian speakers (used Totems, Monitor Audio, B&W, Epos, and wanted Spendors). I always thought of Klipsch as similar to Cerwin Vega and not high end, placing JBL way ahead of them.
The Forte IIIs are superb. If someone out there is on the fence or just curious (and can afford to play around a bit) I’d urge a test drive in your room. My experience was really great with solid state, but maybe shy of amazing with tubes (Primaluna integrated).
I was also previously thinking of moving to Spendor D7s or PSB Imagine T3s. Maybe that’s a curiousity I’ll have to explore someday. But I’m very pleased with the Forte IIIs and, like you, only want to buy more vinyl.
What really impresses me with the Fortes is the height and width of the musical picture. It’s just huge. Music fills the space like air would let out of a tank. The music does not come at me from the direction of the speakers.
If anyone is in the Chicagoland area and wanted to hear them in my dedicated room I’d love to do it. You should bring me a six pack of beer though. :) I’d love to hear someone else’s view of them and whether they had similar thoughts before and after hearing them.
Thank you for the specific details on you impression of the Forte III's with your different gear and sources. I'm glad you gave them a try and are enjoying the dynamics that efficient speakers and horns are capable of. As you've discovered, these type of speakers, (provided they were quality brands like Klipsch or Altec), seem to sound their best matched with tubes.
Since the 1970s I have preferred that sound myself and currently have a pair of Forte I's that I fitted with Bob Crite's crossovers and titanium tweeters which helped bring them closer to your description of the III's. Their well designed bass reflex set-up provides some of the best bass you'll hear for their size, whether it was back in the 1980s or today.
Unfortunately, I gave away my extended, well cared for record collection of the 1970s for the convince of CD's as it seemed I had more time in high school and college to listen to music then when I started working. Currently I am modifying a turntable to get back into vinyl, but have heard good things about Tidal/MQA.
My question is if the difference you described when you compared vinyl to Tidal/MQA using the NAD M22 is as noticeable using your Primaluna?
Thanks, and hope you enjoy your building record collection with the Forte III's.
Vinyl is unquestionably smoother and more ethereal regardless of solid state v tubes. But, my sense (and I'm not sure) is that my phono preamp is doing a great job. It's also tube based and of any upgrade I've done it made the most difference. I know a phono preamp seems like the least sexy thing to buy; it was. It's one of the most valuable pieces in my system.
Tidal using MQA masters is really, really good. In fact, with the right recordings it's near spectacular. I do, however, still prefer vinyl.
On my older rig, the NAD/Tidal masters edged out vinyl at even rate (say 1 in 2 recordings). The phono pre made the difference. Some guy on here told me that was my weak link. He was right.
My response will lack brevity, as indicated by wolf. The Forte line ( and Chorus line ) are not bass reflex designs. They use sub bass radiators ( rear ) which are operating on the acoustic pressure being generated by the active woofers ( front ) within the sealed cabinets. Bass reflex is another design ( think Cornwall ). Enjoy ! MrD.
To update, I have now engaged in tube rolling to tune my tube amp and the Forte IIIs. I moved out Tung Sol 7581a's and put in KT150s. Strangely, the KT150s do not sound bright or harsh. They have really upped the bass--tighter and glowing. My guess is the extra wattage generated by the KT150s is adding more control and headroom so they aren't coming across as harsh.
I am definitely clearing out the cobwebs in my mind regarding audio gear from when I was first active in hifi decades ago. Yes, you are right, it is a radiator design, and as I recall, we called it a passive radiator. Thanks for the correction and keeping things accurate!
A reason some may include the Forte, at least the Forte I, in the Heritage line (including the Klipsch marketing team) is it used the same tweeter (K-75-K) and midrange (K-53) drivers, along with the same horns that were used in the Heresy. So the Forte I looked like a taller version of the Heresy.
In fact, I put a pair of earlier era Heresy K-53 drivers in my Forte I based on comments that the earlier components were of better quality. It may be since Klipsch has used different manufactures for their drivers over the years, but the driver's structure from the Heresy seemed better made and the leads were soldered on vs. the use of male/female spades. An A/B comparison using a mono recording gave the Heritage version an edge in smoothness, at least to my ears and trying to be unbiased as possible.
Didn't the Heresy get its name for being the first Klipsch speaker designed not to be placed in a corner (as in contrary to the others)?
jbhiller,
Thanks for letting me know that vinyl still wins out. For reference, would you mind sharing what phono preamp and cartridge combination you are using? Also, since this will be my first time streaming Tidal MQA, which streamer do you have?
Glad to see you've made additional improvements with your tube rolling.
You may have tried this already, but elevating the speakers so the tweeter is at ear level in your listening position can bring some additional clarity and openness. This may be more true with my Forte I's which do not have the tractrix midrange horn, but still worth the effort since horns typically have a narrower vertical frequency response coverage pattern than a cone or dome driver.
For streaming, I use the Bluesound Node2, feeding and NAD M22 DAC. If I were you, I would try the Bluesound. It's internal DAC is really splendid and there's nothing wrong with it. I'm not aware (it may exist) of a product that does what the Bluesound does for the price. It's a highly musical piece.
For vinyl, I have an AudioTechnica ART9 moving coil cartridge (about $900) and a Manley Chinook phono preamp.
Of all the audio that I've owned, I think the biggest leaps have come from a great phono pre and in better cartridges (note--I have not gotten into the super price carts yet...let's say >$1500).
I should tell you that I heard a couple of things today on Tidal/MQA that did clearly beat out vinyl. If, however, I have a good pressing of something that's well recorded, vinyl typically wins. More holographic sound and an easier sounding room filling nature.
I should also note that while the Forte IIIs are just the ticket for my room and system right now, they don't do super detail. For example, I auditioned PSB Imgaine T3s (I own T2s) and they carved out instruments in isolation way more. Someone would play a four note guitar motif and drop it in after a lyric and it just hung in the air. That doesn't happen with the Klipsch Forte III. Instead, the Forte III just keeps moving right along churning out one big, giant picture of sound. It's very different and I like both approaches. Right now, I want to be bathed and washed over in sound, rather than analyze nuances.
This isn't to say the Forte IIIs aren't detailed. They are. They just don't highlight things in isolation. The are certainly super cohesive and have much texture/timbre.
Remove the mid horns of the Forte 111s, and dampen them from the rear, using a product like dynamat. Do it in abundance and evenly, re-install them, and you will hear gobs more detail. Enjoy ! MrD.
The Heresy III horn damping process is interesting, and worth it if only to make mrdecibel happy depending of course on how important his happiness is to you. They do sound somewhat smoother, and I should have done an A/B test before damping the second horn as I no longer remember the pre-damped sound...meh...these are astonishingly detained speakers, and really come into their own once you really listen to them over time...they will not sweeten a harsh recording, nor should any speaker do that, but with well sorted gear they will allow a truly accurate and coherent representation of recordings into your earballs, which is a good thing. Detail is right there with Heresy IIIs, as I can hear stuff previously buried in the mix...I use a tube preamp and a simple SE tube power amp and they really shine with Heresy IIIs to a degree that nothing among the great speakers I've previously owned can match. Maybe it's the efficiency, maybe it's the horn and crossover design, but these things are absolutely a high end bargain speaker.
wolf, a typo I am sure. Detained, detailed. I am happy, if you guys want to do damping, that is up to you. I am happy if you do not. It was, and still is, a very significant tweak Klipsch owners have been doing for 50 or so years ( I am not the only one ), in eliminating the ringing ( in the early metal horns ) and the resonances ( in the now poly plastic horns ) making them cleaner, smoother and more detailed. It also effects the entire front baffle in doing the same. I might not know much, but I do know Klipsch ( Heritage ), and if my posts are no longer wanted by some of you, just say so. My feelings are not hurt, but sometimes appreciation of knowledge is nice. Yes, very little, if none at all, brevity. Enjoy ! MrD.
Thanks for letting me know what equipment is giving you the results you've described. The Bluesound Node 2 has come up on other discussions, so I will take your advise and start with that for streaming using its own DAC.
The first "hifi" cartridge I got in the mid-70s was AudioTechnica's then second from the top model with Shibata stylus, (back when most cartridges where moving magnet). It was the best component in my system and in college several people would bring their albums over to hear it on my stereo, so you've invested well.
You are right that horns do dynamics better than detail, but the "live" factor of a live recording and energy of their sound is great. Glad you're enjoying the fun factor they bring to music.
If you want to get back to more of a monitor sound for instrument placement, nuances, etc., but retain some of the dynamics of horns, the Altec 604-G speakers are hard to beat, especially in the larger 620 cabinet. If you have heard them yourself, you can see why they where the most popular speaker for studio monitors for years.
Dampening the midrange horns on my Forte I's helped with detail, openness and the like at moderate to louder volumes. I mentioned earlier that I replaced the factory Forte I K53/K701 combination from an earlier Heresy. The driver was better made and sounding, but I was surprised that the K-701 horn had fewer outside ribs for bracing in the mold. Seems the Klipsch engineers took steps to reduce resonance by beefing up the bracing in later versions of the horn.
The midrange compression driver on a Forte I is only about a 1/16th of an inch from the back inside wall of the cabinet. (Not sure if the geometry is the same on later generations with a tractrix horn). Recently I read that loosening the mounting screws and inserting a thin piece of compressible foam behind the driver and then re-tightening the mounting screws helps with "bracing" for a clearer sound.
Mrdecibel: You gave me no choice in the damping thing, so I expect you to issue an apology to my wife as I gummed up her favorite scissors...they got un-gummed...still...took some "splainin'". The term "detained" means they are held in my listening room and have very little chance of escape (I generally fear they could try to get back to Arkansas if allowed). Detailed was a more apt term, so yeah...detailed. And please continue posting as these posts are one of the few bastions of defense against the anti-Klipsch horn movement that exists in the demented minds of the mindlessly demented.
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