Hi everybody!! I've just recently joined this forum while looking for some new speakers. I ran across this thread almost two hours ago. I'm still here and want to contribute something. My main gig is sales and marketing. My other life is as a jazz musician, (or, because this is a small town, the symphony, blues, funk or country. ((but I freakin' hate the country gigs))) I fell into jazz at about 15 years of age. My parents asked me if I wanted to go with them to hear Oscar Peterson. I said yes. I said yes not because I liked his music. In fact, I didn't like it at all. My parents had a bunch of jazz records and none of the songs sounded to me like the musicians knew where they were going. It was just a jumbled mess of notes. But I knew he was famous, an old guy and would probably die soon, so I went to the concert. This was about 1966-67. Anybody over 40 was pretty much an old guy. I was 14-15 years old. We went to the gig. As it turned out, it was a solo performance. The room held maybe 300 people. Nice, intimate and we had an excellent view of his hands. Anybody that knows the music of Oscar Peterson knows that he has a blindingly fast right hand and that his left hand is equally as fast, and can play off the right in such a way that sometimes you think that there are actually two piano players. Anyway, here he is playing his stuff. It's not that good. (at least to my 15 year old ears). At one point he does the super fast right and left hand thing and I can tell he's going out of time. I thought, Okay, he's going out of time, but he's an old guy so that's okay. He was not going out of time. I'd just never had to listen to music that "hard" before. I became obsessed with understanding his music and bang; I was a jazzhead. Still am. At some point in my life I can't remember I began to look for odd meter tunes. I think some tunes are written in odd meters just because the musicians can play them. Some others work. And work really well. Here is one of my favorites, and my first contribution to this most excellent thread; Cannonball Adderly playing 74 Miles Away. I had the privilege of seeing this live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmpV67Mgsl0Thank you all for a wonderful thread. Bob |
As a new member I'm loving this thread. It's making me revisit old friends and make new ones. I've hung out in jazz clubs since the early 70's and have had the opportunity to meet a number of really fine musicians. I've met a few of the famous ones we all know as well as a lot of "A" players; musicians who never made it "big time" but travel most of the year playing gigs. One of the things that hit me was that there are, in fact, a lot more truly fine musicians than we know exist. I've played with some smokin' hot killer players who did things other than play music to make a living. It hit me that in order to make it, you have to be willing to embrace the lifestyle. In other words, you have to be happy being away from home. Pro athletes, actors etc all do this. Yes they are the best, but I believe there are many others that are also the best we never see because they don't want the lifestyle. As much as I'd like to play full time I couldn't handle the being gone. This song played by Chet Baker gives one insight into that life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4PKzz81m5c#t=13Also, has anybody ever read "But Beautiful?" - Holiday greetings to all, Bob |
Rok,
I love that tune. Thanks for posting.
Bob
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Hey Rok! Some years ago I kind of got into Roy Hargrove. I found his music to be solid, melodic and diverse. Here's one where they are simply blowing the doors off the hinges. Check out the piano solo, you can thank me later. I love this sh*t. Bob https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9SLugelvxw&feature=related |
Rok and Frogman,
Frogman, nice post! I wish I had the time and the brains to craft such a good read. Thank you.
Re: Roy Hargrove; he remains one of my favorite players for me because I find a lot of his music just plain fun to listen to. He's also not locked in to any particular style or genre either. I like that he's always trying new stuff. I agree with Frogman that his career is probably about where it should be. He's a wonderful player, but not in the upper echelon. I will still listen to him and still buy his music.
Here's one of my favorite piano players playing possibly, just possibly my favorite song. Brad Mehldau, "My Favorite Things."
Happy New Year!
Bob
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Frogman,
Never heard Meldau’s version of "Where Do You Start?"
You killed me with this one. Thank you.
And Shirley Horn... give me a break. Every time I put that album on I start floating. Especially "Estate."
Thank you.
Bob
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I like Meldau’s version. I like it a lot. His interpretation typifies what jazz is all about; which is finding a new way of playing a tune. I love, love Coltrane’s version. I especially like McCoy Tyner’s piano solo. Once when driving 268 miles to visit my mother, it was the only song I listened to for the entire drive. It is beyond a shadow of a doubt one of my favorite pieces of music. And then I heard this Brad guy do his thing. I was knocked out. He reached down deep and found other places to go with my beloved tune. I like them both. Jazz is about finding new ways to express the music. Once, when I was playing a lot, I was hired by our local symphony to put on a jazz concert. I had a big, (at least for me) budget and hired some great players. We rehearsed the afternoon of the gig, had a good performance and went our merry ways. A couple of days later a friend told me he attended the concert and said it was too bad it was only one night. "I bet you’d like to play that concert again," he said. I was honest and told him no, not really. We already played it and if we did it again we would want to do it differently. My friend didn’t get it. It’s great fun and sometimes scary beyond words to find new ways to play music. A dear friend and monster jazz guitarist invited me to play with him one night. I was playing hand percussion and invited up to play one tune. He said, "How about we do a Latin thing? How about Ipanema?" "No problem," I said. "Great! Let’s do it in 7." I thought, "Holy sh*t! Here we go!" It was very deluxe. Once, years ago when "Willow Weep for Me" was on my top ten list of favorites, I made a tape of all the versions I had. Maybe 10-12. It was a great tape. ***New Topic Alert*** It’s New Year’s Eve and a lot of people go to the movies. Here’s a short clip depicting a drummer living the life. The real life of a real musician. It’s not very long and for me, really captures one facet of a working musician’s life. I also like it because I’m a drummer and we always have to sit in the back. Bob https://vimeo.com/15273009 |
Orpheus said,
"Seriously, did anyone try and focus on McCoy Tyner, and Elvin Jones when
listening to MFT, by Trane. I promise you will hear it differently."
In the many, many times I've listened to this cut I've focused, (besides on Coltrane and the "group"), Elvin and Davis, Davis and Tyner, Davis and Coltrane, Coltrane and Elvin, etc.
This one tune helped me considerably in developing a better sense of time. Which, as a percussionist is kind of important. If you're a musician, (even a hack like me) if you don't have a good sense of time you will suck.
I still love both versions. If I had to sum it up I would say that Coltrane's version opened up and helped develop my sense of time while Meldau’s version opened up and helped develop my sense of expression.
Both are important.
-- Bob
PS - Has no one watched "The Drummer" short I posted?
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Frogman, Glad you liked seeing Dave as an actor. Sorry to hear the news. I never met him, but have friends that knew him well. They all spoke highly of him. Orpheus10; You said, " Maybe we should accept new musicians for what they are, and what they have to offer without comparing them to the old." I'm in. I love finding great music I've never heard before. Here is one of those; Edmar Castaneda in New York. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no-9kJg68hw&fmt=18 |
calvinj, I looked around and only found downloads of his albums. No physical cds. All his downloadable cds are on his website: http://www.edmarcastaneda.com/#! -- Bob |
Great joke and immediately brought to mind the great novel, "The Bear Comes Home." It's a story of a bear who also happens to be a jazz tenor player and his pursuit of music and perfection. Here's a wiki about the book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bear_Comes_Home-- Bob |
calvinj,
Duke Pearson: Wow!~!!!! Never heard of him and now I'm digging around for recordings. Thank you!
Bob
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I love this thread. Read a lot, learned a lot and have learned about players I knew nothing about. Thank you all. Back in 1969 I was in high school, and had a crush on Margo. Margo's older brother was a senior and probably the coolest human on earth. Not into sports, nor the debate team. He had long hair and a smokin' hot girlfriend. He was also brilliant. His name was Rex. I was deeply into Frank Zappa at the time. Also the Moody Blues, Jeff Beck and of course, the Beatles. I was at their house during the Christmas holiday and as always, hitting unsuccessfully on Margo. Rex brought out a record, put it on and blew my mind. I'd never heard anything that moved me as much as what was playing. The conversation went something like this; "Who IS THIS!!!" "I NEED THIS RECORD!!" Rex, in his very cool way said, "This is jazz man. This is jazz." I never looked back. 40+ years I've collected, played and taught about this music we call jazz. I can never have enough. Here it is, Les McCann and Eddie Harris. Swiss Movement. The record Rx played in 1969. I still like it. A lot. -- Bob https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UrjQSVbIkk&list=PLvMh7Ixx-tsf6FSEncG6bBvGy9M-V6KJv |
Digging the last 25-30 posts. Love, love love Byrd, Roy Hargrove and James Brown. Just finished ripping almost 2000 cd's and finally have time to listen. James is funky. Seriously so. I've heard him live twice and his band starts the gig like they've been playing for a couple of hours locked up hard in the groove. This is a new one for me. A serious groove, a serious cover by Nina Simone. The bass player is, (for me) the epitome of cool. Have a great night. Bob https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yWOVrwe1Zw |
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rok,
The first time I heard Bitches Brew I was about 19 and still living at home. I had a high end system even then. Pioneer speakers, Radio Shack amplifier and an AR turntable.
I put the record on, was suitably stunned. I left before the first cut was finished and went to Radio Shack to buy a set of headphones. I was basically "gone" for a couple of days.
Thanks for the memory.
Bob
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Anybody ever listen to the M.O.B. Trio? I can't find anything on YouTube but here is a link to some samples. I've got a couple of their cds and like them very much. A bit out there, but very accessible. http://www.allmusic.com/album/loose-mw0000620315Bob |
Man, I love this thread!
Rok, Herbie Hancock's Butterfly--- First heard this tune live at the Paramount Theater in Seattle. I was completely knocked out. I'd never heard anything so wonderful and to this day it is one of my favorite songs. Check out Gretchen Parlato (spelling?) version. Nice.
What I remember most about that concert was Bill Summers' solo on the chekere. Never heard of or seen the instrument. Killer.
All the recent names; Arthur Blythe (great player, unique sound), Horace Silver, James Carter; you guys seem to be intimately familiar with the holy grail of jazz greats.
Thank you.
Anybody here like Dave Holland?
bob
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frogman,
Thanks for posting the Freddie Hubbard clip. And don't feel you have to apologize for the audio quality; the music speaks for itself.
I've never heard this before and I enjoyed it immensely!
--Bob
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jzzcourier,
Great last post. Thank you!
Bob
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O10, Man, oh man, oh man, THANK YOU for the Eddie Fisher clips. I’ve never hear of this guy and like you said, I got lost listening to these clips. You made my day. -- Bob Here’s a mighty fine clip of the Steve Gadd band grooving hard. (Just had to contribute something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xCwOqL2S74 |
O10,
Okay, I’ve been locked into Eddie Fisher for the past hour. Any tips you can give me on buying his music on cd? I’d even go for some downloads.
I agree that the scratchy version is sublime. The music is so good the scratches disappear.
Thanks,
Bob
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O10,
Got it. Will do. Sorry if I offended you.
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As an aside, my wife who spent many years as a modern ballet dancer once told me something like this, "You spend hours and hours taking master classes so that when you get on stage you can forget it all and just dance."
I believe it's the same with musicians. And athletes. And actors. And...and...and.
-- Bob
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O10,
You said, " I say that practice could take away some of the "instantaneous" improvisation required of a musician who is playing Trane’s kind of jazz, which was the exact same kind of jazz my friend was playing."
I’m an amateur hack that has had the opportunity to play with some very fine players so take my comments with a grain of salt.
The ability to improvise comes from inside your head, the ability to act on what’s in your head comes from practice. Every serious musician I have ever known practices all the time.
You still have to have the chops.
I’m a 64 year old percussionist and I find that my head hears what to play but my body doesn’t have the chops anymore.
Bob
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And because I’m a hand percussionist / drummer, I love, love this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVPLIuBy9CYAnd no, it's not jazz. Like jazz though, the music has form, structure and room for improvisation. Enjoy, bob |
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Loving the discussion of classical. When I invite a friend over for serious listening we always start with jazz. I play a cut, he plays a cut, etc. Then we find the blues, a little r&b and then classical. Sometimes opera and then make our way back to jazz. I've been fortunate enough to have had friends that teach jazz at the college level and very often they will ask their student in a jazz band to "sing their part." This is done for a variety of reasons I won't go into here. Bobby McFerrin takes this to a whole new level. This is a fun clip. Bob https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klc6nH8E_QwAnd for those that are curious; some of my favorite classical composers are Steve Reich, George Rochberg, Schoenberg and Frank Zappa. |
frogman,
You said, "
Art reflects the culture. Think about it: is it any surprise that a
culture that moves more and more towards the elimination of borders and
away from individuality and self-reliance should see more and more
"fusion" in art? Whether the fusion is good art or not is dependent on
other things."
I couldn't agree more. Our world has changed greatly in the last 20 years, or 25 or 30. We are really living in "one world and one planet" and the awareness and the wonderfulness of the diversity of cultures are, at least for me, beyond excellent.
From the music, to the food, dance and literature, and the blending of all of them to discover new ways to express them is perhaps my greatest joy.
Rok,
The Invictus Choir; thank you for posting that. I watched the entire thing and cried at the end.
-- Bob
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acman3,
Whoa, Larry Young? Who? Never heard of the guy and now I'm scrambling to find a copy of this.
Thank you!
Bob
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You guys are killing me! I've been working 10-12 hours a day for the past couple of months. I come home, land here, listen to music and go to bed. Geez, o10 cost me almost 45 minutes with one post. (Trilok Girtu) Thank you all. I've been listening to all the recent clips; found some new stuff I need to buy and visited some old friends, (Cecil Taylor). Saw these guys at around this time, they started the gig like they'd been rehearsing for days. It was off the charts and the first time I was lucky enough to hear Bill Summers. Herbie Hancock, Spank a Lee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWgrzmF-34Q-- Bob |
Frogman,
Thanks for posting Romantic Warrior. Haven't listened to it in a long time and had forgotten how much I liked the album.
My jazz began with Frank Sinatra, Oscar Peterson, Erroll Garner and Louis Armstrong. (when he played more than he sang). I started playing drums in grade school and by the time I got to high school I was listening to Miles Davis and Frank Zappa.
Chick Corea, Herbie, and Weather Report exploded, (at least to me) on the scene when I was in high school and because I was living near Seattle I got to hear them live many times. It was a great time to love music.
One of the many aspects I like about fusion, (and a lot of jazz for that matter) is that the song "develops." With a lot of pop you know everything about the song in the first 16 bars, maybe 8. It's one of the reasons I like the Beatles, (and others) so much; their song develop and change throughout.
I have also been blessed with extreme difficulty understanding lyrics. In other words, I hear the human voice as an instrument.
I remember one morning listening to Weather Report. I had been married all of 2 days and my wife and I were still getting to know each other. It was about 7 in the morning and I've got my stereo playing "Black Market" and was playing along, intensely on a kitchen pot. It was the nearest instrument.
Count me in as a member of the "I like fusion" club.
Bob
And we're still married. 29 years this August.
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rok,
thank you for your impressions. Do you feel the same way about Weather Report, Herbie Hancock or Miles Davis during the same time period?
Just curious, not trying to start a battle.
Bob
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Frogman,
I'd never heard of Martial Solal until your last post. Just spent the last half hour listening to his stuff.
Whoa......
Two of my favorite things in life are discovering new food and new music. You nailed this one.
Thank you. This guy is the sh*t!!!
-- Bob
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With regard to fusion and the "development" of the tune being played; one of my favorite all time compositions is "Music for 18 Musicians" by Steve Reich. He is a modern classical composer and for me, illustrates the development of seemingly repetitive music beautifully. I apologize in advance for throwing classical music into a jazz thread but only did so to read your opinion and learn and discover more about jazz. Bob https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5U9577N-dQ |
o10,
Dizzy was instrumental with fusing Afro-Cuban rhythms with jazz and that's why I posted it. I realize that the type of fusion we're discussing refers to a different type of genre but at the same time I thought it would be interesting to visit a type of fusion that started, I think sometime in the 40's and is now widely accepted.
Just a different perspective.
Bob
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Houston Person is off the charts.
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acman3,
Houston Person, Etta Jones... A very delightful way to start my day!
-- Bob
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On the Lyle Mays record:
I've had a copy of this for many years and for a two or three month period, the Alaskan Suite was my go to music.
Whether or not it's jazz is a good question. When I bought my copy it was in the jazz section where it probably belonged. But it could have been equally at home in the modern classical section.
I always sort of found the album to be jazz musicians playing a classically arranged piece on jazz instruments.
In other words I don't really know. What I do know is that I like the music quite a bit.
Alex and Frogman on Alex: "
I believe that 'taste' of music shows more about one's essence of
personal existence than it can be simply described with few
words.Somehow expirience teach me that often one's estechical choice
determine his ethical.( there are exceptions, of course, on both sides)"
I once heard someone describe music as a "ladder for the soul." Over the years I've thought about that comment many times and find myself agreeing with it more and more. A ladder goes both up and down. (insert big grin here)
Bob
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Frogman:
You said, "
I also find it curious that when even our most revered jazz artists
proclaim that "there are only two kinds of music...good music and bad"
I laughed out loud when I read that! I watched a short documentary on Branford Marsalis some years ago. On one segment he was on the telephone trying to get a gig and the person on the other line was a bit confused on what kind of music he would be playing. After a couple of attempts, Brandford blurted out, "Look, there's only two kinds of music. "Good music and shit."
And I believe him. Your comments about defining jazz are right on. Think of dogs. There are a zillion kind of dogs and mutts. But when a dog sees another dog he starts barking saying, "Hey! You! I'm a dog too!" And the tails start wagging.
Sort of like jazz, or country or classical or whatever. There are a boatload of different types but while difficult to define in words are easily recognizable by ear.
Just got off work and gonna fire up some of that Afro Cuban jazz with the big fat horn section.
Bob
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You guys sent me on a weekend binge with your recommendations for some fat Afro Cuban Jazz. I had a terrific weekend. Last night my wife and I wedged ourselves into the "sweet spot," held hands and listened to Stan Getz, (one of my top 5 ballad players), Al Cohn, Zoot Zims, and then wandered over to Bill Evans, "Conversations with myself." All was good. Late night, beautiful woman, kinda romantic, know what I mean? And then I put on what I consider to be the absolute top smokin hot off the charts you're shittin' me rendition of "Mack the Knife." I started bouncing around the room lip syncing and making stupid shark pantomimes and the mood shifted. Oh well. Love this version. Seriously, I love this. Seeing her live checked one off my bucket list. Bob https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYRSm5bgp_Q |
alesatops, Damn... Bill Harris, It Might as Well Be Spring...... Damn. He, (and his friends) are just so damn good. This is a superb example of a ballad grooving very hard. Thank you for posting. I’ve never heard the Oscar Peterson version of Mac the Knife. I’ve got another window open and am ordering the cd. Thank you again. And finally, Bob Brookmeyer. I haven’t listened to any of his stuff in 25 years. I even own the record! Thanks for posting. Bob Here's Scott Hamilton performing "Estate," one of my favorite bossas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZYubevZJkk |
Frogman, Shirley Horn with Strings. Estate. I remember the first time I ever heard the song it was being performed by Kristin Korb at a part time jazz club I used to own. I was knocked out. I've rarely heard a song that hit me so hard. After the gig I asked her about it and the next night she gave me Shirley Horn's cd. I've listened to it a boatload of times, danced with my wife with it playing and often when I get a new piece of gear it is the first tune I play. It's a wonderful rendition. The best. Here's Willis Jackson playing "Blue and Sentimental." Another late night tune. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63uVAOSji1o&list=PL2OvT0cnxq11HXeVhPffT3htrubBmQcE1&index=2-- bob |
acman3,
Bass Desires. Never heard it. Listened to both versions and like them both. Like "dayum, this is some good sh*t" sort of like.
Your point about taking the time to "learn the language" is a wonderful one. Jazz musicians are well known for trying new ways to express their music. Often times their music is met with outrage. Classical composers too.
I'm sure there were time that when Jelly Roll Morton played women fainted, men got angry and the newspapers reported that blasphemy had taken place at the club downtown.
-- Bob
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acman3, I know you've probably heard this before, but here's another tune featuring the bass laying down the foundation of the tune. Not good quality, but listenable. -- Bob Oscar Peterson Trio, "Nigerian Marketplace." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJplKSrRbxQ |
frogman, Really liked your post re: Nat Adderly. Thank you. One of my favorite tunes with both Nat and his brother Cannonball playing together. If it's been posted here already I missed it. Equal parts traditional jazz and fusion, a cup of blues and a whole lot of groove. I've worn out my vinyl copy. - Bob https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmpV67Mgsl0 |
I hope you all don't mind, but here is a short break from the regular discussion. Any musician knows you have to rehearse if you're serious about the gig(s) coming up. You need to know the tunes, tempo, time signature, changes in structure, etc. It's also good to know what time to be at the gig. Basically, if you're playing with more than one person, it's good to agree on some things before you begin. I've been to rehearsals, (jazz gigs) that lasted two or three hours. I've been to some where the rehearsal took place while doing a sound check. I've been to more than one where the rehearsal was conversation between the players. I guess it just depends on the situation. It sucks to be late. It sucks more if it's you. It especially sucks if you are the only one that shows up. Late means you're playing catch up and somebody has to walk you through what's going to happen. Late means you really don't give a sh*t, or somebody died. The Lounge Lizards recorded a song entitled, "Where Were You.?" A fun and serious musical commentary about the business of the gigging musician. I've listened to this many times and never fail to laugh out loud. I hope you have as much fun listening to this as I do. Happy Tuesday! -- Bob https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRUygOpEEFQ |
