Jay’s Audio CD Transport

@ja_kub_sz   I have read that people have been really enjoying the sound from the MU2.... but at 3-4 times the price of the LTA Aero, I would certainly hope it would offer great sound.

You have been blessed to be able to listen to so many dacs/streamers in house and to be able to compare them against other gear you already own.  I greatly appreciate being able to hear about your thoughts and experiences and live vicariously thru you

Best wishes,

Don

@no_regrets nope have not tried them and I’m kinda in a holding pattern for DAC’s.

The Matrix MS-1 was a 3 month wait and honestly, I’m not inclined to wait that long. I just got my Grimm MU2, but sadly have had only limited time to sit down with it and when I have I’m just trying to navigate Roon, which is a task within a task.

I can see why people love the MU2 though, it’s midrange presentation is immaculate and even A/B testing it against the Tambaqui, I have to say this with trepidation... the Tambaqui seems a bit veiled compared to the MU2. But I couldn’t put my finger on why the Tambaqui sounded a touch more organic, and or dimensional.

Again these Are very early takes and no at all my final thoughts.

I plan on pairing the MU2 with the Canor Virtus M1 Monoblocks or maybe a Viva Solista MK3, but I’m leaning a little more towards the M1 for the 4 modes of operation and potential sound signature variability (ultralinear vs triode, +/- feedback).

I might... Probably won’t, but maybe would A/B the Gustard X30 against the Soulnote D2 considering they’re both quad ess chip DAC’s.

@ja_kub_sz Hello and thank you so much for your reply! Yes, indeed... I found your comments to be very helpful.

It seems as though you’ve been enjoying a very nice dac spree of sorts! Have you had the opportunity to try any of the Mojo Audio dacs? I’m curious where you think they would slot into place here or how you felt it would compare to the Aero?

Thank you again for sharing your thoughts and experiences with me!

Best wishes,

Don

@no_regrets I haven't A/B'd them within the same system components, and I'm my listening 90% of the time listen to the Aero with the Z10E and headphones.

Secondly I've only used 6SN7 tubes, not the LTA 12SN7.

The Tambaqui is very different, and more discerning, but the one immediate compliment to the Aero is it's solidity, and weightly presentation. Notes have more heft and presence, and that comes across very well with the Aero.

I never set out to compare them, I did compare the Cen.Grand DSD Deluxe DAC closely to the Aero and I feel those 2 DAC's despite their FPGA vs R2R differences they're very similar and enjoyable (4k vs 6.5k).

CEN.Grand with a touch more detail, but the Aero with Tungsols 6SN7 much more space, depth and holographic presentation. I feel these qualities are easily more noticable, then say degrees of detail, and the wow factor comes a little quicker with the Aero, where the Cen.DSD is a very smooth and detailed DAC, that's a long slow burn. You might find yourself listening longer to the Cen, but raising your eyebrows more while you smile with the Aero.

Hope this helps.

@ja_kub_sz  How do you like the LTA Aero compared to the Mola Tambaqui?

Best wishes,

Don

@stuartk Thank you!  I just replied 

@no_regrets 

Sent you PM

@stuartk Thank you for your comment.  Obviously, for the amount of money we stick into this hobby, I want the system to look nice.  However, I don't get obsessive about it.  Ultimately, I want to get the best sound that I can from my limited budget.

By the way, I was looking at the photos on your system page.  You have a very lovely home and I love your dog.... looks like a golden retriever?

My golden loves to listen to music with me.  I love him like a son 

Best wishes,

Don

@no_regrets

I’m guessing over time, I will learn to remember what each button will stand for.

Yes -- it’s not a complicated device!

BTW, my Hegel H390 is black and I don’t discern any noticeable mismatch between its finish and that of the CDT2MKIII. However, I recognize this is subjective. 

@stuartk "I don't know if this matters to you but I find the writing difficult to read on the black face. Not really an issue if you use the remote but a difference from the silver face, all the same." You do bring up a good point.  Although, I do seem to like the contrast of the silver buttons on the black face... I think it looks nicer as to my eyes, at least, it sets it off nicer.  The silver buttons on the silver faceplate blends in.  I'm guessing over time, I will learn to remember what each button will stand for.

@liquidsound I'm glad to hear that you feel the black finish is very nice!  If I get the Jay's, I have decided to get it in black 

Thank you both for your sharing your comments with me!

Best wishes,

Don

@no_regrets 

I don't know if this matters to you but I find the writing difficult to read on the black face. Not really an issue if you use the remote but a difference from the silver face, all the same.  

I too have the CDT-2 Mk III in black and it's aesthetically very nice, robust and sounds great.   I like that I can use the I2S output which in my opinion sounds the best.  

@no_regrets the CDT2 has a nice CLK, but the whole top R 3rd of the CDT3 is CLK and its PSU. It’s very a serious audio effort to make the best CLK they can for it. And I think that is a large part of the improvement, but not all.

Additionally, the boards and build quality is exemplary. I’m actually a senior EE by career, having spent over 25 years in PC and notebook development industry. One of my main functions was reviewing schematic and layout design for some of the world’s major computer OEMs. If you’re concerned this might be poor quality stuff, ease your mind and don’t be; it’s not.

TK TEKAudioSpecialties

A top loading CD transport with the controls on the front is blasphemy.

It looks like they share the same OCXO as in the OCK2 clock by LHY a subsidiary of Jay's.   

The CDT 2 does not have a clock in /out.  The CDT3 has a better power supply and uses a CD2 pro where the CDT2 uses a CDM4 laser assembly. 

@tekaudiospecialties1 I'm still trying to ascertain whether or not the Jay's CDT2 and the CDT3 utilize the same OCXO clocks and if not, how do they differ?

Thank you and best wishes,

Don

@ja_kub_sz - You're certainly checking out a lot of great gear. I'd be very interested in your findings on the Matrix Audio MS-1 once you get it, haven't seen much on it yet since it's so new. Very impressive build with a lot of potential. I look forward to reading about your evaluations as they continue. TIA

Some OCD Mikey input on outboard clocks…I agree 100%

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S8kAJfbUtqQ

The TEAC CG 10 Clock is a new one to me to ass to the list. The model has been seen for £800 as a used sale item. I will be looking into this model further.  

@ja_kub_sz 

Thank you for your comprehensive reply!

That sounds like some impressive praise for the LTA AERO dac!   You’ve got me pretty excited for me to receive it 👍

I also appreciate your comments regarding the Teac and additional clock. Lots of good for thought.  
 

Best wishes,

Don

@no_regrets I've been moving gear around and was demoing CD players and transports, so the Jay CDT3/3 was there just because. It'll be too shelf eventually.

Speaking of transports the Teac VRDS 701 is stellar and I have the CG-10 clock and like it more then the Jay. DAC is excellent, preamp functions as well make it a better value.

The DAC200 is great and again preamp functions as well make it a great value all around, but I love above all else sound stage depth and expansive music rendering. The Aero (Tung Sol 1945 6SN7) is excellent. To my ears detail isn't lacking compared to the DAC200, but the sound is much "larger" front to back and side to side, and I'm not embellishing this when I listen to my headphones with the Z10E and Aero, I'm literally looking over my shoulder sometimes hearing an all encompassing and 3D soundstage like nothing else I've heard before. It's just incredible (Meze Empyrean 2 and pure silver cable). The Aero has a little less snap and immediacy compared to the DAC200, but I sold the DAC200 and the Aero is my dedicated headphone DAC.

I just got the Grimm MU2 and waiting the Matrix Audio MS-1. I have the Mola Tambaqui, which I love, but I'm really interested in DAC's as of lately it seems. I want to get my two systems flushed out and then maybe look for tube Monoblocks.

@ja_kub_sz Noticed you have a Dac 200 sitting there. How do you like it vs the Aero? I like LTA stuff so imagine their Dac is no different. I just added the Teac 701t to go with the Dac 200 and really like it. 

@ja_kub_sz 

Hi! Thank you for helping me understand that only the Jay’s Audio transports do the upsampling and the Aero simply receives that 172khz and does not upsample any further.  
 

I have learned that both the CDT2 (via remote) and the CDT3 (via switch on the back panel) upsample to 172khz 👍

Im curious, I noticed in your photo that you have the Jay’s on a middle shelf.  Does that make it difficult or inconvenient for you when switching out cd’s?

Which Jay’s transport are you using?

How does it sound with the Aero and which digital out are using?

Best wishes,

Don

@no_regrets Yes the Aero doesn't upsample, the Jay CDT 3MK3 does, and the Aero just takes the digital (172.4kHz).

@fthompson251 

Hello and thank you for your reply.  

Yes, you are absolutely correct. Not only is the Aero missing aes, but also the IS2 output that many people enjoy.  

However, even with that being said, the Aero has been highly thought of by many, and it has been said that its sound reproduction punches well above its weight class. 
 

Im thinking I will use the coax for cd playback and the usb from streaming at some point in the future.  
 

Also, at least in my case, digital will be my secondary source of music, so I’m not too worried about not having every available input connection type. 
 

Thank you again for your post 👍

Best wishes,

Don

I'll be honest the Technics black I like more and the now LTA Aero metal finish is better IMO. Jay isn't bad by any stretch there just a couple manufacturers that do black metal better.

Here's mine

@no_regrets   Your DAC on order does not have AES/EBU inputs which is a downside for users of that connection. It only has USB, Coaxial and optical. 

@sgordoxyz Thank you for your post!  It is excellent to hear that you are getting great results with the CDT2 and you Terminator!  I'm also glad to hear that you are loving the black finish.  After reading all of theses post regarding how nice the black finish is... I will opt for the black as well as it will fit in nicely with the rest of my components.

I'm curious if you have tried the various digital outputs and if you noticed any sonic differences between them?

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with me!

Best wishes,

Don

@jackd Thank you for your post.  What you say makes sense to me.  So, in my case it would only be if the transport would offer the upsampling, which both the CDT2 (via remote) and the CDT3 (via switch on the back panel) do allow.  I appreciate you helping me understand!

@tekaudiospecialties1 Do you offer in home demo' or trials of the Jay Audio transports?

Thank you and best wishes to all,

Don

I have owned the CDT2 for 4+ years. Mine is black and the finish is excellent. I’m very happy with my purchase. I connects to the original Terminator and the pair are great. 

@no_regrets 

I think what Todd is saying is that if you have the option to do it at both the source and DAC level don't do both. In your case with the Aero your only option to upsample would be with the source so try it and see if you like it. 

@tekaudiospecialties1 

I appreciate your replies!

So the CDT2 and CDT3 utilize different clk’s?

Please forgive my ignorance… I don’t understand when you say “you generally don’t want to double up sample in a system”. The LTA AERO is a NOS Ladder type dac and as far as I am understanding, this dac does not upsample.  So wouldn’t it only be the CDT2 or the CDT3 doing the upsampling?

I loved your anecdotal story, by the way👍

Do you offer in-home trials for the Jay’s transports?

Thank you and best wishes to you!

Don

Just sharing an anecdotal story, a few years back I needed to audition several Focal speakers. Thankfully we have a Focal/Naim store in my area (great store). But I kinda knew I that I would need to have the best possible source to really hear the speakers could do (and coming from many decades background of Linn/Naim), and the shop was probably using a garden variety streaming setup. Soo I lugged the heavy CDT3 up there, and fortunately the kind sales person was receptive to hearing it.

My hunch proved (very) correct and the sales guy was a bit slack jawed at the magnitude of the improvement vs the streaming they were using. Had I not brought it I probably would have been a bit "meh" on the gamut of the Focal's, but with it, and a few of my fav disks one pr stood out for me in a big way. Couldn't have heard it that way without the CDT3 sourcing and those spkrs are still playing here now in my system :)

TK

Hi Don. We didn't try the master CLK with the CDT2 but I assume it might have some slight benefit from it. The CDT3 has about the best CLK already, assume that is why no gain from the master CLK.

In my system I generally use a Gaia DDC, which also sounds very good and has very good CLKs. Usually I feed USB into it from streaming and take I2S out of it. When I play the CDT3 I sometimes run AES into the Gaia and keep the I2S out connection to my DAC.. We can also run the I2S straight from the CDT3 to the DAC. Both ways are great sounding.

And @Jackd, that is exactly right re: the CDT2 vs the CDT3 and was my experience as well. At the end of the day the CDT2 is a great sounding CDT that most everyone would love. Basically it beats most everything except the CDT3. For those who want the absolute best sounding, the CDT3 is the one.

Re: upsampling, it might be a benefit in a system with an NOS DAC. But we generally don't want to double upsample in a system.

TK

@no_regrets I myself have had my own thoughts on the addition of the expensive device used as the Clock.

Where I settled was that there are always going to be add on devices that will be very beneficial, and keeping an eye out for discussions being had that cover such devices that can be acquired for much more reasonable monies will hopefully prove good for the VFM factor.

I am at present picking up on the DIY element of tweaking devices outside of a Warranty Period.

The PS Audio Perfect Wave used with my Bespoke Built Valve DAC, has changed my thoughts about a Digital Source being used forever. I see the Clock side as a investigation worth investigating and maybe could get access to a loaner model at some time.

I know and know of individuals who are modding Mutech MC 3 Models, whose reports are claiming a lot has been achieved on betterment.

A Proprietor of a HiFi Dealership who I do not know, has compared modded Mutech MC 3's to very very expensive Digital Source devices and is certain the Mutech MC 3 modded, is a great VFM venture, and should not be overlooked.

I thoroughly encourage the use of the owned CDT's but as always in Audio Equipment Ownership, the 'What If Moment of Thought' very close to surfacing. There is no harm in learning cost effective ways to further investigate options on sound being produced.  

@no_regrets 

The color difference is very subtle - essentially it is black. You have to see it in bright light to notice any difference in shade. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it but I did in case you are completely OCD about the color of your components. It's not something most people would notice.

Regarding sound differences, you should know that I'm one of those guys who can't hear any difference in interconnects. I'm sure that some people hear large differences between two CD transports but I'm not one of them. I've compared the two transports through the same DAC on multiple occasions and if there is a difference it's not significant to me.

As I mentioned earlier, I have put together my endgame digital rig and there was no doubt in my mind that I was going to buy the CD3 instead of the CD2. I wanted to be comfortable that I had bought the best sanely priced transport I could find. If I had bought the CD2 I didn't want to always wonder if I would have been happier with the CD3. I have over 4000 CDs and I'm committed to the format.  I'm pretty sure it's the last transport I will ever buy (along with the 701T). The Jay's is so nicely made and works so smoothly that it's a pleasure to use. That's a very important factor to me.

Good question regarding the LTA DAC. It's a NOS Ladder DAC which does not use a filter so I would think that oversampling wouldn't make any difference. If you decide to get the CD3 it will be interesting to try it to see if oversampling makes any sonic difference.

@mbmi Thank you again for your reply!  I have also heard that a top loader may be more reliable in the long run and it certainly makes sense to me.  It’s interesting that you mention the stabilization and weight being instrumental in improving the sound as I have heard various Jays Audio owners make similar claims as well.  
 

Thank you for sharing your experiences with me!  I’d love to be able to have a home trial of both the CEC and the Jay’s but I’m not sure that is even an option?

Best wishes,

Don

@pindac   Thank you for your replies!  Yes, I had also noticed said members discussion on another forum as well, regarding the Teac transport.  The external clock that he has used with the Teac cost multiples of that of the transport and just really doesn't make financial sense for someone looking for a relatively affordable cd transport solution.

Granted there must be more affordable clocking devices, but this is all so new to me that I wouldn't have a clue as to where to begin with this.  Ideally, I would just like to have an affordable cd transport that does it all without having to have multiple boxes or to have to spend multiple amounts of money.

Please share with us as you learn more as you continue on your journey!

Best wishes,

Don

@jackd Hello and thank you for your reply!  You have the unique experience of having been able to compare both the CDT2 and CDT3 side by side which is invaluable!  Thank you for taking the time to share your impressions with me and the others here.

Obviously, what you have heard are very desirable sonic traits to me.  On the one hand, trying to pony up the additional $2500 to get that is something to be considered and it's nice to know that if a person wasn't able to hear them side by side as you have that it is likely that person may be perfectly happy with the CDT2!

As I have mentioned.  I've been a strictly vinyl guy for roughly 50 years.  The thing that has kept me away from digital is that it oftentimes sounds hard and 2-dimensional to me. The performers have sounded like cardboard cutouts vs live human beings with flesh on the bones, so to speak.  Naturely, it is my hope that digital has improved greatly over the years, but if these are still the sonic attributes, it will be very difficult for me to throw much more money towards this medium.

I've have the LTA Aero Dac on order... should be here in about 3-4 weeks.  It is supposed to sound good for the $4000 outlay, some even say it punches above its weight class.  I have no idea... but I can say the fine folk at LTA are absolutely wonderful to work with!

So, I'm just trying to figure out which dedicated cd transport would be best suited for this dac.  Would the CDT2 be perfect for it?  Is this dac worthy of the CDT3 - meaning will it make much of a sonic difference spending the $5K vs $2500 on the transport?  Or would I need to have a much better dac to reap the benefits?

Also, taking a step backwards... will I notice a huge sonic benefit by having the CDT2 over that of just using my vintage Rotel 955ax cd player as a transport?

Thanks again for sharing you thoughts, experiences and any advice you can give me 

Best wishes,

Don

@tekaudiospecialties1 Thank you for your reply!  I'm curious if the CDT2mkIII benefitted from the external clocking device?

Thank you for sharing you experiences with me!

Best wishes,

Don

Don.....I spent alot of $$ on a top of the line Marantz unit with a drawer. I've had it in for repair 3 times because the drawer won't open when a cd is in the unit or close ( I have to push the drawer in to close it.) The Top loader for me is the best. It also allows me to put a stabilizing disc on top of the cd and then the supplied "weight" goes on top of that. ( This is something you don't read about very often, but it changes the sound dramatically) ...If you love vinyl, the CEC will suit your taste very nicely. Good Luck to you.

There is a Gon Forum Member who has the TEAC VRDS 701t.

In their system it was coupled to a off board Esoteric Clocking Device? The outcome being the pairing transformed the Transports capabilities for an improved end sound substantially.

Not all, will be able to use a Clock as the one mentioned, it is costly, but Clocking Devices are to be found, as well as models that are now with DIY Tweaks that can be added. I am keen to dip my toes into the Waters to learn what can be achieved using the add on Clocks. 

@no_regrets

The combination of the more elaborate power supply and the upgraded drive unit give the CDT 3 Mk 3 a "bigger" sound. Fuller, deeper bass and "meatier" midrange come to mind off the top of my head. The CDT 2 Mk 3 is a great unit and if you don’t listen to it side by side with the CDT 3 in the same system you would be more than happy with it. Also I've tried upsampling with both units and it's just not for me.  I prefer the sound of the original sampling rate. 

Yes it is true, the CDT2 is a great sounding CDT. But the CDT3 is in fact one of the best sounding sources available at any price. Never thought I'd say that about a Redbook format device, but it is what it is. Speaking as a fellow audiophile we have tried to beat it with many expensive streamers and such but have been unable to. Even with external Master CLK'ing, eg Esoteric, which BTW did improve the device(s) it was connected to but didn't improve the CDT3 IME.

If you're looking for the best sounding CDT, the CDT3 is it IME.

TK of TEKAudioSpecialties

@oddiofyl Thank you for your reply!

I’ve been reading great things about the Teac, both here as well as on other forums.  I’m open to both top loaders and trays, but have heard some feel that the top loaders may be a little more reliable in the long run.  I personally have no idea, but I do know that Teac has a fantastic reputation!

I can honestly say that the Teac is definitely on my short list.  I’ve been basically always a vinyl guy over the last 50 years (and that is not going away for me) so I’m still trying to learn about the digital side of things.

A big thank you to you and everyone for sharing your thoughts, experiences and for helping me learn 😊

Best wishes,

Don