Hey Charles- I actually now run Devore Gibbon Xs for a change.
Jadis JA30 Mk2, how great???
The new Jadis JA30 Mk2 is now on my radar. Does anyone here have any experience with this amp...thoughts?
Would seem to be in the sweet spot of the Jadis line.
Would seem to be in the sweet spot of the Jadis line.
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keithr896 posts11-15-2016 6:58amThanks for the update - I’m very much considering Jadis’ I-50 integrated amp for fun. Keith, did you manage to try the Jadis I-50? I am entertaining the possibility of getting this amp though it is not for fun but more like for life. Is this I-50 some sort of a keeper? |
Well a big shout out to gwalt...because thanks to him, I am now the happy owner of the magnificent Jadis JA30mk2’s!! These amps are an absolutely incredible sounding piece of gear... Far more resolving, far more palpable and simply way better at all manner of music making than any other amp I have heard....and I have heard a lot of them! Pairing them with my customized CAT preamp is a match made in heaven. Tonight after hearing the amps for the first time, I now know why I had these on my radar when I posted the OP. If you get a chance to hear these, I highly recommend that you do so....an incredible update on a classic Jadis amp. I simply have not heard better...... |
Daveyf, Congratulations! The Jadis JA 30 MK II are beautiful visually and no doubt every bit as beautiful sounding. Some say that the SR Guarneri Homage require considerable power to get the most from them. The JADIS 30 MK II provide up to 45 watts class A Per channel. This tells me that they have exceptionally good output transformer and power supply to match so well with these speakers. Based on your description this pairing is superb. I predict that you'll be very happy for many years. Charles |
Thanks, Charles. The SF GH are not that easy of a load. IME, they will not work with very low powered/flea powered amps. However, with the Jadis JA 30 Mk2, as you pointed out, the transformers/power supply are exceptional and since I am using a small room, the 45 watts/ch works fine. The sound is absolutely amazing with the new KT150’s. Incidentally, these amps also have NOS Siemens tubes in the driver stage, a significant upgrade over the stock EH’s, IMO. |
Daveyf I am glad you have found beauty in the Jadis JA30ll amplifiers. As I stated in this post prior those amplifiers bring as much emotion as any amplifier I have ever used in my 40 years of listening and I have owned quite a few marvelous creations. The bass is very good for their power rating combined with the Jadis magical midrange. As we both know, this hobby is all about matching each component to the listening environments and their mates. With that said this is quite difficult and when you score you can celebrate. Have one on me and enjoy the music! gwalt |
@daveyf Congrats on the new amps they are certainly stunning to look at I can only imagine how great they sound! There is something very special indeed about a good Class A pushpull tubed amp and good transformers are key. Obviously Jadis winds some fantastic transformers for their amps. Happy listening! |
Tonight I had a long listening session with these amps. The new design of the mk2 and the KT150 tubes make this Jadis amp the most resolving and life like sounding amp I have ever had in my system. The Jadis JA 30 mk2’s drive my SF GH’s with ease..allowing the speaker to define the soundstage with great precision. The highs are as pure as any amp I have ever heard and are ( at least to me) a revelation with the silk domes that the GH’s utilize. With certain wind instruments the sound of air escaping through the horn section can easily be heard and the ‘blat’ that distinguishes the various openings of the trumpet and the sax are now eerily realistic. IMHO, if these new Jadis amps will work with your speakers, they should be on your very short audition list. |
Daveyf, I recall walking into a room at the Chicago AXPONA show last year that was using Jadis components and immediately recognizing the realism and beauty of the sound. If you're familiar with the sound of real instruments being played in your presence you'll tend to quickly notice this type of sounnd with certain audio components. Well, it works that way for me. Very high quality tube equipment (not every tube component is capable of this) such as Jadis and some others are sometimes criticized for not measuring as well as a typical solid state amplifier. This leads to the belief that they're not as accurate or just providing pleasing coloration. I see (hear) it differently. What is being heard with the Jadis and certain othertube amplifiers of this caliber is an unmistakable realistic and organic presentation. In other words it's a more natural sound character. Your description of air from the trumpet and saxophone, I completely understand what you mean. This is an example of a very real aspect of something that you can clearly hear and appreciate but would be unable to verify with some form of measurement. I'm just very glad there are exceptional components available that can convey this level of musical beauty and realism. No doubt so are you. Charles |
+1000 Charles. I have never really considered measurements as any kind of arbiter regarding the SQ of audio gear. My ears are the arbiter, just like yours. The measurement crowd tends to shy away from this...which is fine, but i never understood how they correlated what they look for in the measurement and what some "expert" has determined that the measurement correlates to in the sounds that we hear. ( Remembering that what you hear, I hear- and they hear, are probably variations that we all interpret differently). Not to say that the new Jadis amps won't measure well, we have no idea about this ( and they very well could measure great)...but like you said, tube amps don't typically do this. BTW, I was looking at the graph showing the frequency and linearity result that was presented with my speakers....Jeez these guys are almost ruler flat from 45Hz to over 18Khz!! So somebody at SF did have great ears and the ability to design for flat response and measurement! Franco really is missed!!! |
stringreen, what vintage are the friends gear? Are you referring to JA 30's or some other model in the line up? I would very much doubt that the amps you are referring to are the new mk 2 models. As to the preamp, I have no experience with Jadis models.... no need to, as my CAT is a perfect match for the Jadis amps. |
Davey: I want to be clear the air about me raving about the JA 30ll and then selling them to Davey and now hearing his opinion. I loved the Jadis elegant sound as well and I think you are finding my description as I posted accurate. I sold the amps. with regret but they simply were not enough power for my Gamut RS7i speakers and the marriage broke up.....the mate was my fault but certainly the dealer as well. I now say what was I thinking and certainly was not the amps. fault. These speakers really like a "bigger amp." and the JA 80ll would have been a better match but they were out of my range. I am thrilled Davey is "engaged" in the music. With a brief trial with a refined SS amplifier, I have landed a deal on a CAT JL5 amplifier and just got it home today. It is a way better mate for these speakers and CAT can pretty much do it all. Once again it is all about proper mates. I am one of those guys that believe you mate the amplifier to the speaker.....not the other way around. Gwalt |
Gary, great news...I was expecting that you would really like the CAT JL5. I am sure that this amp will be a great match to your Gamut's. Like you said, you match the amp to the speaker...and not the speaker to the amp. CAT is such a great piece of gear...as you know, I am a very BIG fan. Oh, only drawback is now you have to think about the CAT preamp...;0) Daveyf |
Hi Davey: When I was in Denver auditioning the JL5 against some other contenders I also heard it with the CAT SL-1 preamp. OMG was that good a pairing to die for. It will be a goal of mine to get one with some options. I have to let Wally the Wallet rest now for awhile.....we will see. This amp. really is a fit for these speakers. As I said it pretty much does it all and gets out of the way for the music and drives most anything with ease. Glad you are enjoying the music. That is what it is all about. As our world continues to turn it will help you through it all. Gwalt |
Gary, as great as Ken's amps are, IMO his preamps are actually even better. As you know, Ken made his mark with his preamps, and IMO they are still at the very top of the contender list. Absolutely SOTA. Interestingly, the preamp and the Jadis amps have always matched up well. I can say that my hot rodded/modded SL-1 Sig matches up like a dream with the JA30Mk2. If and when funds allow, go for the CAT Renaissance with Black Paths...as you noticed, your system will take off. In the meantime, happy listening. |
Davey: Thanks for the recommend. The JL5 I have is not broke in but it has startling dynamics, speed and contrast....similar to live music. It is the first time since owning the Gamut speakers that I now understand what I heard when I first heard them and why I purchased them. It is the antithesis of the dead sounding SS camp and or lack of power required. Thanks for the information. Gwalt |
Gary, the JL5 is a great amp...and like I suspected, and you have now confirmed, well suited to your speakers. As you noted above, it’s all about the mate in this hobby. Get that right, and you have music, get it wrong and you have disappointment. Easier to do the latter, IME. My SF GH’s work superbly with the new Jadis amps...what’s even more amazing, is that I have to actually turn DOWN the volume in comparison to my far more powerful Rowland amp...which puts out only 250 watts/ch! But as we all know, that’s not the only part of the equation, it has to do with the quality of the transformers, the ability of the caps and the headroom of the amp, the typical impedance load at the speakers and of course the speakers in use ( room size).. among other things. So 250 watts/ch vs. 45 watts/ch-- and yet the low powered amp offers far more bass punch, dynamics, volume, imaging ability, and ease of presentation! Interesting isn’t it...and something that I strongly suspect most dealers and a’philes have no clue about!!! Reminds me of a time when I visited a dealer many many moons ago, who was selling the then revolutionary Carver 500 watts/ch ss cube amps...told me they could drive anything. Well yes, but not well, LOL, My 15 watt/ch tube amp obliterated them in an AB...so much so that the dealer assured me that the Carver’s were faulty and he was going to request another pair... Needless to say, i did not buy much gear from this guy. |
Very interesting find indeed. It is a strange hobby that way. This CAT JL5 amp. is rated at 120 per channel into 8/4 ohms. Does not mean much however with the transformers on this amp. The beauty of it is the first 60 WPC is in Class A and then to AB but all in triode. The tubes are said to be ran at 1/4 rated output. It all happens to be overbuilt as you know. The Jadis is built much that way also. This amp. drives these speakers effortless and dynamic and is very smooth. CAT does not romance like Jadis......just tells things more like it is maybe. No flowers on the first date yet but I can tell it is not broke in either. Does your amps. they put out much heat into your room as your temps. don't vary much like here? |
Hi Charles: Thanks for the inquiry. Yes I owned the stereo version of their amps......the D200i latest version. I sold it because tubes belong here and SS gear is not as exciting to me. I also heard the speakers with the Gamut 250i monoblocks.......excellent amplifiers but I cannot pull the trigger on any SS amps. and they were more money than I could justify. Something about the beauty of tubes has me hooked.....good tubes that is. They just connect with me way more. The reason I bought the Gamut RS7i speakers is they were very full range and capable of being very dynamic. Coming from horns I found that quality about them.....with correct tonal rendition. The CAT amp. I have now acquired seems to wake this speaker up. CAT is known for its dynamics and drive so I think all will be well. They are also have a holographic soundstage. Excitement abounds in the music with this amp! It was a new demo so not quite broke in and it really is marvelous on these speakers. The Jadis JA80 might have done the trick also but now in retirement the cash flow went south and I know expensive gear will be a hard sell for me when I can't hear anymore ha. Honestly, I bet you the Jadis JA 30ll on your speakers would be a dream come true. Have you ever seriously thought about that? I never met a speaker that did not agree with more quality power. They just were not enough for the Gamuts. That amp. on your speakers might keep you up at night. I assure you it sounds SET like only way more beauty. I have been there. Gwalt |
Gwalt, I met Ken Steven’s a few years ago at CES and he was using his preamplifier and mono blocks driving the Wilson Sasha. Those are no doubt impressive power amplifiers. I’m quite familiar with his CAT preamp as two friends of mine had them at one time. Gwalt and Daveyf I have no doubt that the Jadis would sound marvelous with my Coincident Total Eclipse II speakers with their 14 ohm load. The thing is that I have an amplifier that is superb with these speakers. Believe me, I get the frequent argument for more power. I have both a 100 watt PP tube amplifier and a 40 watt amplifier. The 8 watt Frankenstein SET is better than either. I suspect that the pure class A Jadis could outperform my PP amplifiers and most likely rival the Coincident Frankenstein MK II. I’ve had this Coincident amp/speaker combination for over 8 years and yet my appreciation continues to grow. Clearly there are other worthy superb amplifier choices besides what I have. Fortunately you only need one superb amplifier😊. Sometimes you just find what you consider an ideal musical match. The glorious 300b SET does it for me. Certainly the Jadis does it for you Daveyf, and Gwalt the CAT in your case. I believe that it’s fair to say that we are all thrilled with our respective current systems,. Charles |
Agree with you Charles. Here's the thing of it, until recently, I was pretty happy with my power amp. I had an inkling that the new Jadis JA30 Mk2 was going to be really special...which is why I started this thread. I just did not realize how much better this amp was until I heard for myself in my system. If you do get a chance to listen to one of these, or the CAT amps for that matter, I would recommend that you give it a go. Sometimes, our suspicions prove to be correct. Nonetheless, if you are currently happy with your gear, that is always a great place to be. For some reason, I tend to get an itch every few years.... |
Gwalt, one of the things that I think we would both agree upon, is that the sort of sidetrack that you made, probably should not have happened. IMO, a dealer whom we rely upon to confirm product synergy should supply with you exactly that. If they fail to do so, inadvertently or otherwise, it would generally lead one to concern. I know in this hobby that there are endless possibilities, like you said, but I am always concerned about people in the industry who profess knowledge, and either have it and lead you wrong ( for their own agendas), or simply lack the experience that they posses to have. I rarely talk to any dealer these days who will contemplate that there may be consumers out there who actually know as much or more than they do! A pity. |
Jadis JA 30MK II preferable over the Jeff Rowland. CAT preferable over the Gamut. Two high esteem solid state amplifiers, but there's just something about tubes when done right. I refer to it as the "breath of life " factor. You just know it when you hear it. I believe that both of you know what I mean. Charles |
Charles, I still believe the Rowland is one heck of an amp. It certainly has a different “flavor” if you will, to the tube amps that I own. However, it depends on your mood. Right now, and after all these years, I am in the mood for more of the newer tube sound ( particularly since the new tube sound is so much more revealing and neutral)..which I actually feel fits my current tastes and speakers a little better. Some may prefer the Rowland, and I wouldn’t argue with them...it’s that good. I am sorely tempted to keep it and move my ARC D 70mk 2 on... |
I like the breath of life factor in my music. I hear that in all live events. Why would I want something different at home? Good analogy Charles. Just don't become afraid to venture out for discovery if your budget allows. Unfortunately, there is always a "better out there" if the effort is made and you have the desire. I agree with you Dave on your dealer assessment. I liked the dealer I purchased the Jadis from but some are more about sales than others. No one is going to tell you that so it becomes something you try to figure out on your own. In my case, the purchase should never have been made. More power is most often way better than not and I thought it would work out but I knew it was borderline with my speakers. In my case I even went out and listened but something failed in my evaluation. I failed to perform the acid test. No worries with CAT amps. however and one reason I went that direction. This is why audigon has a better future than some of the dealers in many cases. We need both to survive in this hobby and for sure I have just supported both. |
Hi daveyf, I absolutely agree that choices made regarding audio components is all about one's taste. I've heard Rowland amplifiers and can confirm they sound very good. My point was that despite their high level of performance you currently prefer the a Jadis JA 30 MK II. My suspicion is that the Jadis provides a greater sense of liveliness, palpable presence, the feeling and sound of real musicians (3 dimimenional) before you. At least for me I've found this distinction to "generally"" be to the advantage of good tube components. Relatively speaking solid state tends to be drier and not as 3 dimensional. I do recognize that your experience or perspective may differ from mine. Charles |
Hi Gwalt, Believe me, I'm very well aware that there are truly excellent amplifiers available besides my current one. I can easily name half a dozen amplifiers that I believe would thoroughly please me as much as my cherished Frankenstein. But where does it end? Replace the Frankenstein with the Jadis JA 30 MK II? What about the Viva 845, the Shindo or perhaps the Ocellia mono blocks with their top of the line silver wound output transformers? How about the Line Magnetic 805 SET? This is what I mean superb amplifiers I'm convinced that would grace my system in extraordinary fashion. I could list more wonderful choices. I'd be proud to own any of the above named amplifiers but again only need one. As I type I'm listening to pianist Kenny Barron and vibraphonist Joe Locke "But Beautiful ". Just sounding sublime 😊. There are simply more fantastic audio components than I could ever hope to own (I know they're out there). I'm happy where I'm currently at. Charles |
Charlesdad: I get it. My goal is to get there also. It all started for me when I sold my horns after 13 years. I got sidetracked with an error I made on these new speakers. I believe I now have that corrected. I also know everyone has their own thing so I am happy for you! I just was intrigued by the emotion generation of the Jadis so I mentioned. Second issue is auditioning all these products. I just got back from Denver to audition some amps. including the one I bought. Not everyone has that ability. I am so fortunate to have Denver within driving distance. Best wishes in your musical adventure. |
Charles, I think so but allowing it to fully break in. I am also going to try some JJ driver tubes in place of the Electro Harmonix. I am not real fond of bright tubes as the EH tend to be. Nothing exotic about the tubes in the amp..... just tractor like power supplies. It is changing as time goes on. Sure has a grip on the speakers like nothing I have experienced. Not used to the tight grip and dynamics it has and the extension/openness. It is a stereo amp. with a monster soundstage.....sounding more like monoblocks. Way different than the Jadis emotion. I had my preamp and cables with me in Denver.....just not perfect with no similar speakers so the auditions become somewhat a best guess. Fingers crossed but my bank account says it must work as I had to sell the amps. I had planned on long term. Davey benefited from the deal so glad for him. CAT is an intriguing amplifier for sure. It all becomes individual taste and the movement of the emotiions. We will see but I have some getting used to them to do. Gwalt |
Well, it turns out that the new Jadis JA30Mk2’s are very sensitive to the power cord that one uses..perhaps like most amps. Anyhow, after trying several candidates from various companies, like Synergistic, Cardas, Black Rhodium, Pangea, a Nordost Heimdahl, the clear winner, and in my opinion miles ahead of the others is: the superb Audio Art SE 1 cable with the excellent Furutech connectors. I am so impressed with this cable that I think it is probably the absolute best cable for this amp. Truly a match made in heaven. Big shout out to Rob Fritz and his over the top performing Art Audio SE 1 power cord. Thank you, Rob! |
Hi Daveyf, Its a good thing when you achieve that type of synergy. As you know it can require some patience and trial and error. It surprises me when some people dismiss the effect of power cables and consider them "snake oil " products. Just as with you I've heard better quality power cables make a real improvement in the sound. So as always to each their own. Charles |
Davey: Good for you. Cables are a weird experience and all about system synergy as Charles notes. Power delivery in all parts of the country differs. I assume you have some interference living in CA. ha. I used JPS Labs Aluminata on them and I still like them on other equipment. To each his own. Best of Luck. Gary |
Thanks guys. Last night I had a long listening session..and one that was quite amazing. I managed to add my two REL subs ( after having custom cables built for me by Frank at Signal) and got them dialed in. The result with the new Jadis being powered by the Art Audio cables and the subs now in the room, was a sound that easily surpassed anything that I have managed before. Right now I am pretty happy! When you get it right, the question becomes is it wise to get off the bandwagon, or continue to tweek....hmmm?? Like you guys correctly point out, synergy is so darned important in this hobby. But wow, once it all locks in...:0) |
Daveyf, I find the bandwagon question to be overwhelmingly based on one's personality makeup. Some people once they've reached a level of deep satisfaction can stop and enjoy the music (This describes me). Others no matter how well their system sounds just can't resist the urge to change or meddle. So it all depends on one's psychology it seems. I make a distinction between fine tuning tweaking and constantly changing major system components. Bottom line, follow your heart 😊. Charles |
As an owner of Jadis amplifiers, I also obviously feel they offer beautiful, glorious sound. In addition to your power cord experience, I've found they show as much sensitivity to tube rolling as any amplifiers I've come across. It amazes me how far you can push the sound in whatever direction you want to head. Driver and output tubes more so than the input, and I recommend starting with them, though the input tubes also definitely need attention. As time passes, you should experiment. You can REALLY improve things from where the factory starts |
@daveyf, I ran the Mullard 12AX7 for a while, and felt happy enough. They took my DA60 up a few steps from the original Ei, and offer a warm, rich sound. Hard to believe, but the dirt cheap Shuguang triple mica 12AX7B aka Silver Dragon handily eclipsed them. In fact, our audio then held a 12AX7 tube shootout at my home, and the Shuguangs placed in the top 3, and beat out some longtime highly regarded tubes. The Shuguang offer a more open, transparent, and balanced presentation, without diverging into harshness or anything unpleasant. Unless you really feel devoted to the pipe and slippers sound, you can skip the Mullards for the Shuguangs. You might also consider the Psvane, which descended from it. I did settle on a vintage 5751 variant, and they actually won the competition. But at about 20X the cost, you wonder if it makes sense. @inna, I’ve used a variety of loudspeakers with my Jadis amplifiers - Coincident Digital Master w/Troubass subwoofers, Consonance M15 horns, Fried A6 & Studio V & Valhalla, Horning Perikles, Merlin TMS & VSM, Quad ESL57, Tidal Piano, and a few others. I still own the Coincident, Fried, and Quad. That’s more a reflection of hearing that I owned way too many speakers, and not necessarily a reflection of disliking most of the others |