500 watts available at 4 ohms from the big Rowland transistor amplifier versus 45 watts available via the tubed Jadis . And the Jadis is an equally competitive amplification choice. There’s so much more involved than quantity of power in achieving superb sound quality. No doubt that the Jadis mono blocks have excellent quality transformers and top notch robustly constructed power supply.
Charles |
@alexatpos. consider these comments from @daveyf.
"mk2 and the KT150 tubes make this Jadis amp the most resolving and life like sounding amp I have ever had in my system. The Jadis JA 30 mk2’s drive my SF GH’s with ease..allowing the speaker to define the soundstage with great precision. The highs are as pure as any amp I have ever heard and are ( at least to me) a revelation with the silk domes that the GH’s utilize.
With certain wind instruments the sound of air escaping through the horn section can easily be heard and the ‘blat’ that distinguishes the various openings of the trumpet and the sax are now eerily realistic.
IMHO, if these new Jadis amps will work with your speakers, they should be on your very short audition list."
The OP of this thread had a very different outcome.
Charles |
@samhvcc,
I'm certain that you are pleasantly surprised by the sucess you're experiencing with the JA 30 MKII. Your Esoteric amplifiers serve as a high power solid state amplifier reference point. Which of these two amplifiers do you prefer driving the Sony speakers?
1 If it's the JA 30 MKII then it reasonable to assume that the JA 80 MK II may possibly provide 'more' of the same.
2 If overall you prefer the Esoteric amplifiers it may not only be due to increased power but perhaps the possibility that solid state power may be more suitable for the Sony speakers specifically given the load impedance characteristics.
Charles |
Hi samhvcc,
I haven't heard the Jadis JA 80 but given the description of them on the Jadis web site leads me to believe that their sonic signature would be very similar to the smaller JA 30 mono blocks. The JA 80 doubles the number of power output tubes. Each mono block is heavier by nearly 30 pounds.
That's a quite substantial weight gain and suggests larger power and output transformers and a lager more robust power supply. One would expect the JA 80 to be a better match for the Sony speakers as compared with the smaller Jadis JA 30. So in essence you gain power (And presumably more current capability) with an identical or very similar circuit design.
Charles |
No doubt each individual designer or manufacturer has their own ideas and philosophy regarding the best approach to produce good sound quality. I certainty haven't heard every ARC or Jadis amplifier but based on my limited sampling I'm more draw to Jadis. Obviously this reflects nothing but individual taste. Thankfully High End audio has something available for a multitude of different tastes,
Charles |
Samhvcc,
You express considerable interest in the Jadis SE 300b mono blocks. Although this is a PSET (Parallel single ended triode) topology it is rated at a relatively low 10 watts per channel. Typically a 300b PSET is rated at 16 to 20 watts per channel.
What this suggests to me is Jadis is more interested in achieving the best sound they can rather than extracting more power from the parallel 300b tubes. They chose to run the tubes at lower operating points (OP) to maximize sound quality. Higher OP parameters would easily provide more power.
Given Jadis’ established track record for excellent sound quality this decision is not surprising. To take maximum advantage of this amplifier’s potential I recommend the following.
Most important IMO is finding a speaker that’s easy to drive with low power. You want a relatively flat impedance curve that avoids wide fluctuations. You want a speaker with relatively high nominal impedance, say 6 ohm or higher.
Sensitivity of 94/95 db rated (measured) at 8 ohm impedance and even higher is desirable.
Both of these are important parameters but I believe that the speaker impedance and ease of driving are of higher priority for SET amplifiers.
For the SET amplifier itself output transformer quality and power supply quality are paramount but I feel that Jadis has this covered. Focus on speakers that were designed with the goal/intention of being used with low power amplifiers.
IMO the Jadis SE 300b will genuinely sing if paired with the right speakers. Best of luck to you.
Charles |
It makes perfect sense that the Big Esoteric mono blocks would be a very successful pairing driving the Sony SS AR1 speakers. High current capable transistor amplifiers are what the Sonys were meant for. The Grandioso's output power doubles as the load impedance is halved all the down to 2 ohms. The Sony dips to below 3 ohms at certain lower frequencies.
Jadis JA 30 paired with the Sonys will not exploit the potential excellence of either product IMHO. The Jadis can display sonic/musical brilliance with properly chosen speakers.
Charles |
Hi samhvcc,
As I wrote earlier I’m a hugh fan of SET amplifiers. Matching them with the appropriate speaker is crucial for a successful outcome. Sam I don’t believe that the Sony SS AR1 is designed with the intention to be driven by SET amplifiers.
It a 3 way, 2 crossover (Multi slope per Sony)
4 ohm nominal load (Drops to 2.7 ohm in upper bass and part of the midrange per Stereophile).
88db sensitivity .
Now I’m a proponent of the "Listening is superior to relying on the measurements " philosophy . However specifications/measurements can be used to help develop some initial idea of potential compatibility of matching audio components.
The Sony seems to be a challenging speaker match for most SET/PSET amplifiers. It seems it was built to be driven by higher power/current capable type of amplifiers.
Charles |
Jadis is one of those companies that just consistently has the knack of building beautiful sounding emotionally engaging amplifiers that connect the listener to the music. There's obviously something they understand and are executing right.
I'm a 300b SET aficianodo through and through. I haven't the opportunity to hear the Jadis SET offerings but I'm confident that they got it right. I heard a Jadis el34 push pull integrated (Not even one of their higher level models) and it was very good sounding. It displayed that special ability to pull you deep into the music..
It they can achieve this level of sound quality with an el34, I can imagine what they're capable of with a 300b in their upper level range of mono block amplifiers. As daveyf noted you just need the appropriate speaker matchfor the amplifier.
Jadis is exceptionally adept at reproducing music beautifully.
Charles |
Daveyf,
I find the bandwagon question to be overwhelmingly based on one's personality makeup. Some people once they've reached a level of deep satisfaction can stop and enjoy the music (This describes me). Others no matter how well their system sounds just can't resist the urge to change or meddle. So it all depends on one's psychology it seems. I make a distinction between fine tuning tweaking and constantly changing major system components. Bottom line, follow your heart 😊.
Charles |
Hi Daveyf,
Its a good thing when you achieve that type of synergy. As you know it can require some patience and trial and error. It surprises me when some people dismiss the effect of power cables and consider them "snake oil " products. Just as with you I've heard better quality power cables make a real improvement in the sound. So as always to each their own.
Charles |
Gwalt,
I get the impression that you may have arrived at your destination with the acquisition of the CAT amplifiers mated to the Gamut speakers 😊.
Charles |
Hi Gwalt,
Believe me, I'm very well aware that there are truly excellent amplifiers available besides my current one. I can easily name half a dozen amplifiers that I believe would thoroughly please me as much as my cherished Frankenstein. But where does it end?
Replace the Frankenstein with the Jadis JA 30 MK II? What about the Viva 845, the Shindo or perhaps the Ocellia mono blocks with their top of the line silver wound output transformers? How about the Line Magnetic 805 SET? This is what I mean superb amplifiers I'm convinced that would grace my system in extraordinary fashion. I could list more wonderful choices.
I'd be proud to own any of the above named amplifiers but again only need one. As I type I'm listening to pianist Kenny Barron and vibraphonist Joe Locke "But Beautiful ". Just sounding sublime 😊. There are simply more fantastic audio components than I could ever hope to own (I know they're out there). I'm happy where I'm currently at.
Charles |
Hi daveyf,
I absolutely agree that choices made regarding audio components is all about one's taste. I've heard Rowland amplifiers and can confirm they sound very good. My point was that despite their high level of performance you currently prefer the a Jadis JA 30 MK II.
My suspicion is that the Jadis provides a greater sense of liveliness, palpable presence, the feeling and sound of real musicians (3 dimimenional) before you. At least for me I've found this distinction to "generally"" be to the advantage of good tube components. Relatively speaking solid state tends to be drier and not as 3 dimensional. I do recognize that your experience or perspective may differ from mine.
Charles |
Jadis JA 30MK II preferable over the Jeff Rowland.
CAT preferable over the Gamut.
Two high esteem solid state amplifiers, but there's just something about tubes when done right. I refer to it as the "breath of life " factor. You just know it when you hear it. I believe that both of you know what I mean.
Charles |
Gwalt,
I met Ken Steven’s a few years ago at CES and he was using his preamplifier and mono blocks driving the Wilson Sasha. Those are no doubt impressive power amplifiers. I’m quite familiar with his CAT preamp as two friends of mine had them at one time.
Gwalt and Daveyf I have no doubt that the Jadis would sound marvelous with my Coincident Total Eclipse II speakers with their 14 ohm load. The thing is that I have an amplifier that is superb with these speakers. Believe me, I get the frequent argument for more power. I have both a 100 watt PP tube amplifier and a 40 watt amplifier. The 8 watt Frankenstein SET is better than either.
I suspect that the pure class A Jadis could outperform my PP amplifiers and most likely rival the Coincident Frankenstein MK II. I’ve had this Coincident amp/speaker combination for over 8 years and yet my appreciation continues to grow. Clearly there are other worthy superb amplifier choices besides what I have. Fortunately you only need one superb amplifier😊.
Sometimes you just find what you consider an ideal musical match. The glorious 300b SET does it for me. Certainly the Jadis does it for you Daveyf, and Gwalt the CAT in your case. I believe that it’s fair to say that we are all thrilled with our respective current systems,.
Charles |
Hi Gwalt,
Just curious, have you heard yourspeakers with a Gamut amplifier? A friend of mine heard this brand’s amp/speaker combination and he thought it was very good sounding.
C |
Daveyf, I recall walking into a room at the Chicago AXPONA show last year that was using Jadis components and immediately recognizing the realism and beauty of the sound. If you're familiar with the sound of real instruments being played in your presence you'll tend to quickly notice this type of sounnd with certain audio components. Well, it works that way for me.
Very high quality tube equipment (not every tube component is capable of this) such as Jadis and some others are sometimes criticized for not measuring as well as a typical solid state amplifier. This leads to the belief that they're not as accurate or just providing pleasing coloration. I see (hear) it differently.
What is being heard with the Jadis and certain othertube amplifiers of this caliber is an unmistakable realistic and organic presentation. In other words it's a more natural sound character. Your description of air from the trumpet and saxophone, I completely understand what you mean.
This is an example of a very real aspect of something that you can clearly hear and appreciate but would be unable to verify with some form of measurement. I'm just very glad there are exceptional components available that can convey this level of musical beauty and realism. No doubt so are you.
Charles |
Daveyf,
Congratulations! The Jadis JA 30 MK II are beautiful visually and no doubt every bit as beautiful sounding. Some say that the SR Guarneri Homage require considerable power to get the most from them. The JADIS 30 MK II provide up to 45 watts class A Per channel. This tells me that they have exceptionally good output transformer and power supply to match so well with these speakers. Based on your description this pairing is superb. I predict that you'll be very happy for many years.
Charles |
Hi gwalt,
I visited Axpona in April this year and the Jadis room was one of the very best I heard at that show. Music yes, hifi no. Its presentation was natural and emotionally engaging. Clearly the Jadis impressed you as well.
Do you find it as natural and realistic as your Border Patrol amplifiers during this audition?
Charles, |
Hello George,
Congratulations, you did an excellent job with yourJadis system at Axpona I'm a very happy user and admirer of SET amplification after a number of years owning push pull(PP) tube amplifiers. The Jadis based on what I've heard would be my choice if I were to venture back into PP amplifiers. It effectively conveyed the emotion of music. This is what good SET ampliifiers do so exquisitely.
Charles, |
Hi gwalt,
Thanks for your comments and listening impressions. When Srajan Ebaen of 6 Moons reviewed the LV speakers he was quite impressed with them. He did note however that they were a bit harder to drive than their stated specifications would suggest. He believes they are at their best with more power than a 300b SET amplifier provides so your findings support that point.
My speakers are an easier load (14 ohms, minimum 10 ohms ) and they thrive with my 300b amplifier. I also have a 40 watt and 100 watt PP amplifiers as well but the SET sounds better than both on my speakers.
You and I hear the same special qualities from the Jadis that's for sure.
I'm really looking forward to reading your insightful thoughts regarding the Jadis once you've placed it in your system. I suspect that you're going to derive immense enjoyment from this amplifier.
Charles, |
I'm familiar with the CAT preamplifier in various iterations as a couple of friends had them through several generations. It's a very good product and has earned a well deserved reputation. Yet I suspect that the Jadis JPS2 is something very special and particularly with a Jadis amplifier.
Butler I look forward to reading your auditioning lmpressions.
Charles, |
Hello Gwalt,
Congratulations with your new Jadis amplifier and recent audio system changes. The key to long term contentment is trusting what you hear and knowing what you ultimately want. I suspect that this new system direction will keep you happy for many blissful years. I thoroughly enjoy my 300b SET based system but I could certainly be very pleased with the Jadis amplifier based on my hearing them earlier this year. Many roads lead to Rome. No doubt that your new system sounds fantastic.
Charles, |
"It all depends on the mate "
Absolute words of wisdom if there ever were any. This is why I reject the notion of "the best " when it comes to audio components, there are simply too many variables and circumstances involved. One could certainly say "the best " for me under specific and individual situations but not as a universal decree.
Gwalt it seems that once you decided that the Gamut speakers were ideal for your needs you had to find the right amplifier to complete the match. I can understand that although the 300b Border Patrol amplifiers are very fine and worthy , The Jadis amplifier was the better mate for the speaker chosen. This makes perfect sense as this was determined through actual listening.
I could tell during my listening to the Jadis based system that it had that genuine ability to connect the music on a deep emotional and involving level (qualities that drew me to my 300b SET). Gwalt I'm very curious and interested in how the Jadis mates with your Living Voice speakers. I suspect very well.
Charles, |
Hi Gwalt,
Context is everything. Knowing how pleased you were with your Border Patrol amplifiers, to be this happy with the Jadis says quite a bit. I believe that you'll enjoy your current system for many satisfying years. Interesting that you prefer the Gamut preamplifier to the Jadis sibling, but you do have to trust your own ears.
Charles |
Keith,
Jadis with your Zu DEF IVs sounds like an interesting match.
Charles |
Well congratulations on getting the Devore. Surprising move to me as I know you were very happy with the Zu DEF IV. The Gibbon X must be quite special.
Charles |
