I also have an older JA30 driving Living Voice OBX-RW speakers rated at 94DB which may be an optimistic rating. Never the less these monoblocks are very special and a tube rollers paradise or nightmare depending on your budget. This combination of speaker/amp. interface is musically fascinating. I have not rolled many tubes just yet but have listened to Ei KT90 NOS, Psvane KT88mkll, and have settled so far on 6l6GC Winged C NOS......using telefunken input/drivers and or Raytheon NOS. I cannot help with the new mkll version but I am sure it is killer good with correct matching of the speakers. You may see them under system moniker GWALT. |
Butler: My amp. was made in 2005 and the largest tube it will accept is the KT120 which I have not tried yet but I plan to. Generally so far the 6L6GC Winged C is my favorite. My Border Patrol 300B is one of best but the 8 WPC is wasting the capability of the Living Voice thus my purchase of the musical 30 WPC.
I purchased the amp. from a gentleman who used 86DB speakers in a large room with KT88's. He said the amp. would clip with high volume Dead Can Dance drive but that was it. He said he wished he had not sold it FYI. If you use the new amp. with KT150's you would be fine IMO unless you play for the neighborhood. I have heard that the JA80 does not make the music magic of the JA30's simpler design. More tubes in parallel and this happens. The JA30 could be the music sweet spot of the group. I suspect the new amp. has a reworked transformer tapped for a high voltage set. No idea what they sound like with that tube but the sound could be to die for. These amps. are overbuilt to last longer than us and could be family tokens. PS: The RED cords are ELROD GOLD STATEMENTS which sound smitten on anything. Hope this has some type of meaning. Thanks |
What is the retail price for the pair of monoblocks? |
Kyomi:
Have you heard the older ones and if so how does it compare? How long have you been a Jadis dealer? |
So is the non-KT150 changed drastically from the old models? I realize they did a new transformer or what are the actual changes from the old models? As a dealer could you define that as there could be some interested buyers on this forum. |
Daveyf:
Agree with Kyomi. They run class A but the transformers are so overbuilt they barely get warm to the touch on this model. The KT150 tube might put off a little heat but nothing exciting with only two tubes. I am anxious to hear more about the sound compared to the older models. gwalt |
Kyomi: What are the amps. connected to in relationship to preamp./speakers. Can you give us the system contents? Thanks, |
Nice! My curiosity is on alert. I live in Ne. and to do it right once I get ready I would just pack a 3 day weekend to come your way for a listen and bring my pair of older versions. Are your comments based on KT150 tubes only? If so have you tried others? Thanks |
Butler: Yes I would like to make that comparison in person and take my amps. with my tubes to check on both the new and old amp. I am not as particular to the sound of the KT150 on the new amp. as I am relative to some lesser powerful tubes but more pristine sound. I have a
had great luck with the Winged C NOS 6L6GC and the new Psvanne WE Replica EL34's using Telefunken NOS as drivers. My speakers for driving are Living Voice 94DB OBX-RW's and therefore the KT150 is not necessary but it would be fun to hear what it does on that amp. compared to mine with less powerful tubes. I will let you know what I find out as this is the only way to really know. gwalt |
Well I made the trip to Chicago as I said I was going to do. I took my older JA 30's and my Living Voice speakers to really hear the difference. After spending an hour in Chicago traffic I finally made it to George's Salon. George was listening to his new Gamut RS7 speakers driven by the Gamut SS monoblocks and they sounded splendid. We moved the LV into place and warmed the Jadis JA30ll and rolled the que. These amps. are in another league. Gone is the fatter midbass/bass and replaced with a tighter and more tuneful extended bass. Midrange is still full and faster and the top end more open and extended. On my speakers the bass tightened significantly as the speakers lit up with the power. The amp. played with precision and sounded like it was in control top to bottom. As it turned out I ordered a pair and await their arrival. On the way home George called and said the Gamut speakers that he admires also took a liking to the Jadis amps. I did not get to hear them on the Gamuts but George said it is love at first listen and these speakers are more like 88 DB into 4 ohms and they show plenty of power. For the money it appears these are a no-brainer and will be able to drive a lot of speakers at their disposal. I can't wait to get mine and anticipate this will be my mid-power amp. of a lifetime. |
Hi Butler: I only heard the amp. with the KT150's but it was sure good. The amp. has strap changes internally for the other tubes so time will tell. One thing to remember is that none of the listening involved "cooked" gear and I personally find that very important with tubes and transformers. I could hear the amps. getting better and better as time went by and they had a much blacker background.....they are quieter for sure. George did not have them cooked when I got there but that was Ok because mine were not either. At any rate they were in way more control than the older amps. and the bass had slam and control which my older ones did not have. My older ones never got cooked with the time I was there but I am certain it would not have mattered. So to answer your question I am not sure I am in love with the KT150's as much as the improvements to the amp. itself with the smaller tubes? I still have to investigate the answer. I have no doubt the smaller output tubes will be magical in it also as I did note the caps. were a tad larger and I believe the outside of the transformers might have been a tad larger also. Hope this helps. gwalt |
So George is it true on the silver faceplate? If so is there a picture of that somewhere? I think I might prefer it? |
Hi Charlesdad: These new amps. seem to have a lot of the sonic characteristics of a good SET design with more power and control. My comparison was only based on my LV speakers with the older amps. against the newer ones. I will have a very accurate understanding of the differences between the Border Patrol and the Jadis when the new Jadis arrives and I can do a side by side with the 8WPC then I will have a very accurate description response. George and I did experiment with the new 300B Luxman from Japan ($17-18K) on the LV and I much preferred the Jadis's power and control on that speaker and it is an easy load of 94 into 6 ohms. I suspect on your speakers you would find the Jadis exceptional with more extension and control while retaining the magic. Just a guess of course but these new amps. are for real and will drive some real world speakers. Again the 300B was not fully cooked but it just sounded less dynamic and in control as you would expect. I will report back when the amps. arrive and I can make a comparison. Gwalt |
Hi Butler: I just went on here for the first time in ages. I just heard today from George at Kyomi that my new Silver JA30ll amps. shipped today from France. This is just shy of 3 months from when I ordered them. George told me that it was reported from Jadis the Silver will take longer to delivery and that is all I know. How long it takes for the Gold I could not answer but I liked the silver in my system so that is what I wanted. Thanks Butler for the tip they even offered them. As far as the comment from Mill below I don't disagree with you on the KT150 tube vs. the original however I suspect the power will dictate in the long run. Once I get the amps. I will report back however there is break in involved and a slight mod. inside to use the smaller tubes. That will take me awhile to get to that test. In addition, my old amps. are gone so memory is all I will have but I still want to know myself. I will have more to report in the upcoming weeks ahead. I am making some other changes as I get closer to retirement. gwalt |
Hi Butler: I will post all of my system updates when I get everything finalized. There are several and I am anxious to get the amps. here for sure. None of my changes are without careful consideration and audition...most of that being in Chicago but not all. Everyone has different tastes including me but I did find George has a great set of ears for live music. Keep in mind he is a world renowned concert pianist and that certainly does not hurt the reality of listening. Also my updates caused some sales to keep the WAF factor in tact. More on this later. gwalt |
I have an update on the Jadis JA30ll. I finally got delivery of my JA30ll with silver plates. The amp. arrived at the 90 day mark from order date. This was a bit frustrating since I started selling some gear I am moving away from and I was without music for awhile. I have done a system re-configuration for space reasons and retirement approaching. I had ordered and now received the Gamut d3i preamp for the JA30ll to drive my new Gamut R7Si speakers along with the LV OBX-RW's. The RS7i is a very full range speaker and go down to 22hz with outstanding bass definition. The Jadis drives them easily. My 300B Border Patrol amp. has been sold along with my VAC preamp. I ordered the Gamut preamp. when I heard a shoot-out of four preamps. with the Jadis amp. one of which was the VAC. The Gamut is a fabulous preamp. for the money and sounds more like it has tubes than SS but then you get that great bass weight and tone with a very relaxed presentation. It has a lot of refinement with terrific holographic imaging. If you are in the market for a preamp. check this one out as it is the real deal and you simply leave it on all the time with the high quality MOS-FETs. The BP 300B was a very special amplifier but so is the JA30ll with the KT150 tubes on the Gamut speakers and I am sure many others. I changed the amp. to the 4 ohm strap. and I believe that is where it needs to be with these speakers. Believe it or not I was driving the Gamut speakers at lower volumes with the 300B amp. and it performed quite nicely on the 4 ohm tap. with bass extension you simply would not believe. However, the Jadis is a new ball game with this preamp. and speakers. The KT150 tube has a lot of meat on the bone over a 300B tube amp. and my BP was one of the best. All of the 300B tubes were very microphonic on my horn speakers and I tried the best. The 45 was the better fit with the horns for my taste. I am still in break-in mode but this system so far is making me very thrilled and I do not regret my decision for the long haul. I have about 200 hours on the new components and it needs more time but it just sounds so right. I will be doing a lot of changes on my system page when time permits. |
Hi Charlesdad: Everything you said above comes from your years of experience in audio and I could not agree more. I did get to hear the LV in Chicago the first time I was there with the JA 30ll but not with this preamp. so I will let you know when I get there. I like the JA30ll better mated with the Gamut d3i than I did the $28K Jadis, VAC Signature Mkll SE, MBL, Esoteric and one more I can not recall. Something to do with the mating together I am sure but both seem special together. gwalt |
Hi Charlesdad and Butler, Thanks for the words of encouragement. As they say so far so good. It was a long thought process to make this switch but this combination won me over and my wire works perfect as I thought it would. Something went astray with the emotion of my old system when I had the VAC preamp. upgraded to SE status? It was a mistake for me to do so in my case. In addition, the RS7i speakers stole my heart driven by these pieces. They have bass clarity with this front end like no other I have heard before and still have tube glow and bloom in the path with all the right mix up the spectrum. I also like the fact this preamp. needs no warm-up and is meant to be left on and has a dedicated CD balanced output that by-passes the circuit. I would never say this amp. is better than an SET designed amp. or that the KT150 is better than a 300B as it all depends on the mate...a lot like a marriage and what moves one-self with emotion. However as Charlesdad heard (and I trust he knows his emotions) at Axponia and maybe others is that the Jadis JA 30ll has some serious heart with the music and I agree this system will provide me a happy trail for a long time to come. I am still in the break-in phase with no fuse upgrades etc. and I have to fine tune the position of the speakers in the room. I have yet to hear the LV either with these but it will be more fun to come. gwalt
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It is has been a long time since I posted on the Jadis JA Mk.ll amp. with KT150 tubes. I have tried the telefunken 12au7/12ax7 for driver/input tubes and they are highly dynamic but not as musical as the Mullard 12au7/Siemens 12ax7 tubes which I have settled on. Also the KT 150 tubes take a long time to burn in like maybe 200 hours. I have now concluded the Gamut d3i preamp./Jadis JA 30 Mkll. amp combination. is staying here long term. I especially like the fact the Gamut is meant to leave on forever with no warm up. The Jadis takes a bit of warm up to show their tremendous magic they have due to the massive transformers reaching internal thermal temp. I have tried the amp. on my Living Voice OBX-RW and Gamut Rs7i [89 DB] speakers and in my room of 15X20 it is no challenge for the amp. to control the speakers. I also think it is the best bass I have had in my room but remains especially musical/magical top to bottom. I did re-strap the amp. to 4 ohm for the Gamut speakers and maybe noticed more control of the drivers with a slight loss of air and it has no issues on the 8 ohm tap. The amp. sounds more powerful than you can imagine and once fully warmed up a piano tone is shockingly real and never on the edge as in some systems I have heard. The Gamut speakers go down to 22 hz and these amps. have tremendous grip on the bass. The only rolling in this amp. is with driver/input tubes and it does work for flavor but I have not converted the amp. to lower voltage for the many others it will play. At this point I have no desire to as the KT150's are very good on this amp. In conclusion, this amp. got rid of the bit of fatness in the old amp. and it becomes much closer to neutral with superior quietness and "you are there" sound staging front to back. This Jadis amp. certainly belongs on the list of must audition Push Pull Class A amplifiers if you are in the market. I would also highly put the Gamut on that list for a SS preamp. that sounds as natural as tubes and more so than some tube preamps. I have owned. In the end, the Jadis sheer beauty, musical magic, and simplicity with tubes is a blessing for the asking price. I love it. |
Hi Charles and Daveyf.: The amp. is special for sure and so is the Gamut preamp as a mate. I also heard the preamp.with the Korneff 45 and Border Patrol 300B. The D3i sounds very relaxed and as natural as tubes. I have owned the EAR 858, VAC Signature SE, and CJ GAT and this one is just more musically inclined. Gamut is not well known in the states but I encourage you to check them out. gwalt |
Daveyf
I am glad you have found beauty in the Jadis JA30ll amplifiers. As I stated in this post prior those amplifiers bring as much emotion as any amplifier I have ever used in my 40 years of listening and I have owned quite a few marvelous creations. The bass is very good for their power rating combined with the Jadis magical midrange.
As we both know, this hobby is all about matching each component to the listening environments and their mates. With that said this is quite difficult and when you score you can celebrate.
Have one on me and enjoy the music!
gwalt |
Davey:
I want to be clear the air about me raving about the JA 30ll and then selling them to Davey and now hearing his opinion.
I loved the Jadis elegant sound as well and I think you are finding my description as I posted accurate.
I sold the amps. with regret but they simply were not enough power for my Gamut RS7i speakers and the marriage broke up.....the mate was my fault but certainly the dealer as well. I now say what was I thinking and certainly was not the amps. fault. These speakers really like a "bigger amp." and the JA 80ll would have been a better match but they were out of my range. I am thrilled Davey is "engaged" in the music.
With a brief trial with a refined SS amplifier, I have landed a deal on a CAT JL5 amplifier and just got it home today. It is a way better mate for these speakers and CAT can pretty much do it all.
Once again it is all about proper mates. I am one of those guys that believe you mate the amplifier to the speaker.....not the other way around.
Gwalt
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Hi Davey:
When I was in Denver auditioning the JL5 against some other contenders I also heard it with the CAT SL-1 preamp. OMG was that good a pairing to die for.
It will be a goal of mine to get one with some options. I have to let Wally the Wallet rest now for awhile.....we will see.
This amp. really is a fit for these speakers. As I said it pretty much does it all and gets out of the way for the music and drives most anything with ease.
Glad you are enjoying the music. That is what it is all about. As our world continues to turn it will help you through it all.
Gwalt |
Davey:
Thanks for the recommend. The JL5 I have is not broke in but it has startling dynamics, speed and contrast....similar to live music. It is the first time since owning the Gamut speakers that I now understand what I heard when I first heard them and why I purchased them.
It is the antithesis of the dead sounding SS camp and or lack of power required.
Thanks for the information.
Gwalt |
Very interesting find indeed. It is a strange hobby that way.
This CAT JL5 amp. is rated at 120 per channel into 8/4 ohms.
Does not mean much however with the transformers on this amp.
The beauty of it is the first 60 WPC is in Class A and then to AB but all in triode.
The tubes are said to be ran at 1/4 rated output. It all happens to be overbuilt as you know. The Jadis is built much that way also.
This amp. drives these speakers effortless and dynamic and is very smooth. CAT does not romance like Jadis......just tells things more like it is maybe. No flowers on the first date yet but I can tell it is not broke in either.
Does your amps. they put out much heat into your room as your temps. don't vary much like here? |
Hi Charles:
Thanks for the inquiry. Yes I owned the stereo version of their amps......the D200i latest version. I sold it because tubes belong here and SS gear is not as exciting to me.
I also heard the speakers with the Gamut 250i monoblocks.......excellent amplifiers but I cannot pull the trigger on any SS amps. and they were more money than I could justify.
Something about the beauty of tubes has me hooked.....good tubes that is. They just connect with me way more.
The reason I bought the Gamut RS7i speakers is they were very full range and capable of being very dynamic. Coming from horns I found that quality about them.....with correct tonal rendition.
The CAT amp. I have now acquired seems to wake this speaker up. CAT is known for its dynamics and drive so I think all will be well. They are also have a holographic soundstage. Excitement abounds in the music with this amp! It was a new demo so not quite broke in and it really is marvelous on these speakers.
The Jadis JA80 might have done the trick also but now in retirement the cash flow went south and I know expensive gear will be a hard sell for me when I can't hear anymore ha.
Honestly, I bet you the Jadis JA 30ll on your speakers would be a dream come true. Have you ever seriously thought about that? I never met a speaker that did not agree with more quality power. They just were not enough for the Gamuts. That amp. on your speakers might keep you up at night. I assure you it sounds SET like only way more beauty. I have been there.
Gwalt
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Fair enough and I agree with your assessment which is where I am heading.......a final destination. I thought I was there until I picked to little power. That's what makes this hobby so difficult and or fascinating at the same time as there are endless possibilities to reach personal satisfaction. |
I like the breath of life factor in my music. I hear that in all live events.
Why would I want something different at home? Good analogy Charles.
Just don't become afraid to venture out for discovery if your budget allows. Unfortunately, there is always a "better out there" if the effort is made and you have the desire.
I agree with you Dave on your dealer assessment.
I liked the dealer I purchased the Jadis from but some are more about sales than others. No one is going to tell you that so it becomes something you try to figure out on your own. In my case, the purchase should never have been made. More power is most often way better than not and I thought it would work out but I knew it was borderline with my speakers. In my case I even went out and listened but something failed in my evaluation. I failed to perform the acid test.
No worries with CAT amps. however and one reason I went that direction.
This is why audigon has a better future than some of the dealers in many cases. We need both to survive in this hobby and for sure I have just supported both.
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Charlesdad:
I get it. My goal is to get there also. It all started for me when I sold my horns after 13 years. I got sidetracked with an error I made on these new speakers. I believe I now have that corrected. I also know everyone has their own thing so I am happy for you! I just was intrigued by the emotion generation of the Jadis so I mentioned.
Second issue is auditioning all these products.
I just got back from Denver to audition some amps. including the one I bought. Not everyone has that ability. I am so fortunate to have Denver within driving distance.
Best wishes in your musical adventure. |
Charles,
I think so but allowing it to fully break in. I am also going to try some JJ driver tubes in place of the Electro Harmonix. I am not real fond of bright tubes as the EH tend to be. Nothing exotic about the tubes in the amp..... just tractor like power supplies. It is changing as time goes on.
Sure has a grip on the speakers like nothing I have experienced. Not used to the tight grip and dynamics it has and the extension/openness. It is a stereo amp. with a monster soundstage.....sounding more like monoblocks. Way different than the Jadis emotion.
I had my preamp and cables with me in Denver.....just not perfect with no similar speakers so the auditions become somewhat a best guess.
Fingers crossed but my bank account says it must work as I had to sell the amps. I had planned on long term. Davey benefited from the deal so glad for him.
CAT is an intriguing amplifier for sure. It all becomes individual taste and the movement of the emotiions. We will see but I have some getting used to them to do.
Gwalt
|
Davey:
Good for you. Cables are a weird experience and all about system synergy as Charles notes. Power delivery in all parts of the country differs. I assume you have some interference living in CA. ha.
I used JPS Labs Aluminata on them and I still like them on other equipment. To each his own.
Best of Luck.
Gary |
Daveyf:
So happy for you! Isn't music great when it moves to treat your inner spirits.
Music will do more for you than that new California Canabus (marijuana) law that just passed ha.
Just remember now if you are happy to not change anything. Life will be good with that advice.
Will keep you posted on my final journey. CAT Black Path preamp. shows up today.
My Best,
Gwalt |
Davey:
I have 6 hours on it and following break in protocol. Run awhile and then let sit awhile turned off to allow caps to fully charge/discharge etc.
I can take the hint from listening so far that this is a very special piece of gear.
To say it is refined would be an understatement! Smooth with dynamic holographic imaging and it is not even broke in. Now starting to get that dynamic contrast that this preamp. is noted for. Wow this is so fun to listen to driving the CAT JL5.
As you know it is built like a tank. I found that out when unboxing.
My goal was to end the equipment journey and this CAT combination should end it for anyone I would guess.
It has many hours to go to fully develop and it makes you want to listen with the powerful dynamic presentation that is so refined. Makes one realize how important the preamp. is to a stereo as is the engine in a car.
Gwalt
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Davey:
What I have noticed as of now with only 20 hours is its drive performance and refinement. Moving the soundstage back about 3 rows the whole room is now just full with massive 3D weight. The CAT Black Path has a lot of caps so many hours to go. Wow!
The 4 ohm tap and 8 ohm tap on the JL5 CAT amp. have two distinct purposes. On the Gamut RS7i speakers on 4 ohm the speaker exhibits more control but is not as extended or open. Now with this preamp. I prefer the 8 ohm tap for its openness. I have learned that even though your speaker might be a 4 ohm speaker (the Gamut is 4 ohm down to 2.6 ohm at 120 hz) it does not mean the CAT amp. cares. Further reading in the manual Ken Stevens reiterates the 8 ohm tap will likely sound better on electrostats. Now moving to that tap I prefer it also.
I know initially I had trouble giving up remote volume control but the longer run of interconnect fixed that. Now I am afraid I have created a lazy man situation where I am 18 inches from all settings. The only time needed to ever get up is to change a record and then it is 2 feet away. I can change CD's from my listening position.
Now in retirement this is just pure heaven having this type of sound.
I have a good 30 days of break-in for the cables and preamp. yet and I am shocked how it good it is already with more to come.
Gwalt |
