Is it me? Will I ever be satisfied?


As we have become empty nesters, we put together or are putting together a nice dedicated two channel system consisting of B&W 804 D3, Levinson No. 333 ( this is an older amp 20+ years old), McIntosh C22 (just purchased) in which I have already upgraded the tubes, Linn Lp12 TT, Blue Sound for streaming.  I am using Transparent balanced cables and Transparent speaker cables - not sure of the exact model, but all Transparent cables are close to 20 years old as well.

My questions, while I think the system sounds good - even really good.  I don't think it sounds great.  I recently purchased the C22 to be used with the No. 333 which I replaced a McIntosh MA252, which i really like and use in another system, it didn't have enough power.  My room is our garage which we converted to a playroom years ago.  It is approximately 25' and 20' wide.  We sit about 12' from the speakers which are at one end of the room .. While I realize that this hobby or lifestyle can be never ending....  I am considering upgrading the cables next and last but not least, add a new Amp, McIntosh MC462 or MC312.

Wanted to get some feedback, thoughts, in site, advice what you experience, am I missing anything?  Thanks

goducks44

I think dialing in speaker positioning, researching what reasonable room treatments (aesthetics and space constraints should be observed if such things are important - if not, go nuts!) are viable, and try applying these practices to your listening room.  We can’t all be so lucky to have perfect rooms AND top-notch gear.  
 

I would suggest asking yourself what is the least-strong, most-lacking sonic element in your listening experience.  If the answer to this question can yield, after some studious research, potentially viable remedies, try them out.  Those are wonderful speakers.

I find that this rabbit hole induces more grief than enjoyment.  This isn’t a way to live.  You have wonderful gear, it sounds like you have a good-sized room to fill with beautiful music.

This doesn’t have to be a terminal illness. Exercise due care with the speaker positioning, maximize your room’s potential, and keep in mind that the ideal life is something equal-to or greater-than a 2:1 ratio; for every hour you spend chasing your tail, you should spend at least 2 hours enjoying beautiful music.  I know this sounds like proselytizing, and I know getting out of the psychological quagmire is easier said than done.  I’ve been there, believe me.

I think with some reasonable expectations and sensible choices (technically and personally) you could have a wonderful life with music.

Room treatments often give a substantial sonic benefit, often ignored by some  audiophiles.  

Also, it would be very helpful to know what you're sonically dissatisfied with (transparency, soundstage, noise floor, bass tightness...) and which direction you'd like to go.  Would help us to narrow down the problems and solutions specific to your situation.

Acoustic may be just fun experiments at no cost.... Upgrading without acoustic protocol is a rabbit hole....

I realized yesterday that I'm totally happy with my system as is. It was a nice feeling.

I feel your pain. Experience and time have made me wiser. I have learned the following essentials : 1. Listening position and speaker position to be optimised . 2.Clean Power from the distribution board to the equipment . No need for power conditioners. 3. Cables ; power cable , interconnect and speaker cable of decent quality. If possible all from the same range. Try cleaning the contact surfaces of cables 4. Room acoustics. Bass traps for full range speakers and diffusers at first reflection points. Need not be expensive. Room symmetry helps. 5. New components need burn in and cables need to settle .6. Check if old amplifiers and preamps need recapping or new valves .7.most important is that if you like the sound and nothing irritates you then relax and enjoy the music. Nothing is perfect. The more you spend the greater the expectation.    Should the above fail consider trying insert a different component/cable , one at a time.  This may entail repositioning speakers.  

So many great suggestions, almost seems pointless to add more and pardon me if I am redundant in my suggestions but here goes.

The very first thing to do is play with speaker and listening position placements. Set that up first but after my second suggestion you should experiment with speaker location again to fine tune them.

Second thing is to begin to add sound treatments that will both absorb and diffuse the sound as it moves through the room. Your room is large enough to properly use diffusion. These panels need to be at least 6 feet from the listening position but more is better. They typically should be placed behind you but you can experiment. Bass traps in the corners are a great help and absorption panels on the side walls right in front of the speaker to absorb those first reflected sound waves is very important.

Make sure you have plenty of space behind the listening positioning and the speakers are well away from the front and side walls. The equilateral triangle positioning for speaker and main listening position is a great suggestion, but does not need to be exact. More important is to have the speakers away from the walls and your listening position away from the back wall. Make sure the side and front wall measurements to the speakers match each other, very important.

Next as many have suggested your DAC may or may not be an issue. Try taking it out and see if the sound improves. Use a record player or a CD player, but do not run them through the DAC. If music does sound better that way then you may have found the next item to upgrade. Finally I do not know if your amplifiers are a good match or not so call around to a number of dealers who sell your speakers and ask them for their recommendations. You might even drop the manufacturer an email and ask for their recommendation.

Once the above has been completed I believe you should be very happy.

Thank you all for the great input.  I really appreciate the time and input you all have given me. Truly an amazing group of friends and fellow enthusiasts!

Try other room. Maybe that fix problem. If that case you no you no have match problem. My guess you speaker not fit wall vibration  right 

I am very new to all of this less than 8 months in from Sonos.  I’ve has Sonus Faber, Focal, Utopias, JBL Synthesis, JM labs, Martin Logan and KEF reference. That’s just the speakers in 8 months. 
 I have tried MC2170 (I think), Mx130, c2500, mc302, MA352, emotiva xpa, Parasound and more. Most revelry I’ve been liking my Musical Fidelity m8xi super integrated now for sale with my Utopias. 
 

my rooms is large 20 wide 33 deep couch is about 12’ away too. My biggest thing is no combo of any of that sound amazing. I’m beginning to agree with some people that room and wall prep needs to happen to be impressed. Nothing sounds way better than the other. 
 

my emotiva and mx130 sound great in 2 ch.  when is it over?

Which level of Transparent cables?  Like any component, they can be a good match or not.  If it is old Super or Reference XL cables, look to use their upgrade program. 

Ok so we took all the great feedback and advice and made a major change.  We moved the our home theater into the playroom/basement and set-up the two channel system in what was the HT.  This room is 13'x22' is with carpet, drapes etc.  What a difference it has already made getting the equipment.  The best upgrade I have made the only cost a few Advil and the whole weekend!  

Cool, congratulations! Only the beginning… a few more advil with speaker movements  and room treatments and it will get better and better. 

@havocman just wondering what DACs in the 3x’s the price range the you have compared the W4S 10th Anniversary DAC to and what differences you heard?

 

Is it me? Will I ever be satisfied?

Maybe not. But even if you do get things sorted out, maybe not.

Some people are just of the mentality that it could sound just that much better if I could just...

But the reality is that no matter how good the system sounds, the source is typically flawed in some way or other, and while one track may sound exactly as you think it should, another will not and you don’t know which to judge the system from.

I go through this all the time with crossover modifications.

You have received a lot of good advice, although if you take all of it you’ll have to start over. I would go slow. I would start with speaker placement and modest room treatments- I don’t think you have to rebuild the room to get decent improvement. Then I would consider what you think you are missing and how you can get there- starting with speakers. You have great speakers IF you like the B&W sound, as many do. If the speakers are not voiced to your taste, however, you are not likely to ever be satisfied and I’d make sure you have that right first

if you do, the most obvious component upgrade is your DAC. Listen to as many as you can and go from there- with what you like. Be careful of well intentioned advice because components or brands that someone else chose may be perfect for them but not be at all for you. Take advantage of having a good dealer nearby

dont expect too much as you make changes, especially after speakerd

most improvement is incremental not a sea change at least in my experience. 

good luck and enjoy