Int Amp for Thiel CS 3.7

I would have to save up for quite a while lol.

carmenc how about this combo :

http://dandagostino.com/products/classic-series-2.php

http://www.vac-amps.com/productPages/SignatureMk_IIa.html

@audiotroy .  I’ve owned Thiels in the past.  I can tell you from firsthand experience that separates are the best way to proceed with Thiels.  I’ve said this before; a tube preamp with a ss amp!  Kathy Gornik of Thiel used to say that “she’s never heard a Thiel that didn’t sound better with a tube preamp in the system.”  This coming from her was certainly not a knock on them so much as it was a tried and true listening experience/observation.

The old synergy used to be ARC pre and Classe amp.  Krell, Levinson and Bryston were used by Jim Thiel as well as Conrad Johnson and BAT.  It’s all about balance.  A high current amp is needed with the right tube preamp. You don’t want a warmer amp with a warmer tube preamp and warm cables.  The right cabling is important to tie it all together.  A lot of these newer brands you’re peddling these days are not up to the task of driving Thiels properly. Using an integrated amp with cs3.7 is like putting a trolling motor on a Scarab or Fountain imo.

Also, nothing wrong with consulting with JohnnyR.  He knows first order and time aligned speakers better than most, and that does include Thiel.  OP doesn’t have to buy from Senor Rutan.  I’d stay out of the Thiel arena and leave it to the past or current users here that indeed have the experience and thus better advice.

@thieliste ....if it were me I’d look for a very good used ss amp.  200 Watts per channel into 8 ohms....2x into 4 ohm with lots of current.  Then buy the best tube preamp you can afford....new or used.  Be attuned to the input impedance of the amp vs your preamp.  Best....

Dave and Troy many thanks for your input, i diden't think T+A would be on the warm side therefore i will have to check them out.
There is no distributor in my area but i guess it would be possible to order directly from Germany.
As for Gryphon i have auditioned the Diablo 300 and liked it very much, a lot of weight and darker sounding, would be a good match for the CS 3.7
Dave and Troy any experience with Sugden ?

Love the thread, here would be our take on this.

First Stringreen Mr. Rutan is not the appropriate source for Mr. Thielliste who lives in Europe. Europe has many find dealers and distributors, and working accross the pond can be costly and difficult.

Point number two, the concept that separates are always better is fallacious, a great quality integrated beats the stuffings out of a less capable set of separate components.

One poster here purchased a T+A HV 3100 integrated, not from us, and it blew away his Pass separates, in the original HV series review from Mr. Allan Taffel in TAS, Mr. Taffel compared the $18k T+A integrated to a $120k worth of Ch Precision separates and was having difficulty telling which was which, so yes an uber class integrated amp, from Vitus, T+A, or Gryphon as well as a few others will beat most separates easily..

Thiels generally love warmer amplifiers and current. Most of the amplifers like the Luxman are not that powerful, the class A integrateds are excellent but are only 30 watts for $10k with alot of current so no there, the Mcintosh stuff is warm, but most Mac integrated don’t have the speed and openess of the really good integrateds. Hegel is nice but not enough real body and warmth the 360 is an excellent amp for the money but there are still better amps out there.

Also String, the Ayre gear tends to be a bit dry which works well with warmer voiced speakers like Vandys, not so good with leaner cleaner speakers like Thiel. The other poster who likes the combo may have other warmer things to help add a bit more midrange magic to his setup.

Theilliste, we have recommended the T+A R 2500 to another gentleman who is on the West Coast, so no he didn’t purchase from us, and he bought the T+A R 2500 a $11,500 140 watt integrated which blew away the Pass int he has also demoing. The R 2500 keeps on doubling down power to a staggering 550 watts into a 1 ohm load.

Right now in Europe T+A is moving out the HV 3000 in favor for the newer 3100 so perhaps you can find one in your price range, same thing with Vitus.

As per Gryphon vs Pass, no contest Gryphon any day. Rassmussen uses better parts and a more refinded circuit both men are very talented designers. Gryphon is more methodical in build quality and parts selection over Pass.

Also Mark Levinson gear tends to be a bit on the clean but dry side so our take woud be warmer amps like Vitus, Gryphon or T+A.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Kalali sorry but i absolutely don't like Mark Levinson's lastest amps and Int.

techno_dude you said it all.
unsound for Sugden you have the SPA-4 or even better the FBA-800.
For Luxman i think it's the M-900u.

Mark Levinson No. 585 Integrated, comes up on the used market for around $6K. No personal experience with those speakers but they should do fairly well paired up.

thieliste, which specific models of Sugden and Luxman?

There are a couple Vitus RI100s available here now that I'd think would sound phenomenal with your Thiels.  Best of luck. 

Thiel's are a great speaker.  If you can't afford the ancillaries, wait until you can.   Ayre or comp.....    Call Audioconnection in New Jersey....John will steer you into happiness

I spoke to an old Thiel dealer and he told me after having tried many different brands like Pass, Bryston, Classé, ASR, and McIntosh, the best of them all with Thiel speakers is Sugden  and also Luxman :

https://www.sugdenaudio.com/sapphire-series

The French distributor on his website, i don't know if this is true :

http://www.zedhifi.com/product.php?id_product=59

The Pass INT 250 is doubling down to 2 Ohm.

The panel here offers very good company - thieliste.
Hope you are well and playing good music today.
Happy Listening!

I presently use an Ayre VX-5 Twenty power amp with my Thiel CS2.4 and it has excellent synergy in my system. I recommend you consider the Ayre AX-5 twenty integrated as a match for the CS3.7

The question more should be which sound signature do you prefer.  The Thiels do a good job of reproducing what is given them; I can't imagine them not sounding terrific with either of those amplifiers.  Any way you could audition those amps to see if one has a sound you prefer over the other?

Pass Int 250 or Gryphon Diablo 300 ?
Which has the right sound signature for CS 3.7 ?

Check out Pass!
https://www.passlabs.com/products/amplifiers/integrated-series

Have you considered T+A? The PA 3000 HV?

Under €10K.

What is your budget?

An Ayre integrated might work well.

Any experience with the Modwright KIW 200 SE ?

From experience, a tube preamp with solid state amp.  If you can’t afford this combo right away, buy a used BAT vk300 for the interim and save up.  Best...

Get a used McIntosh integrated.

I agree but when you have limited budget you have to make a choice.

Such great speakers. A shame to use an integrated instead of a stereo amp or mono blocks.