If you had $12k / £10k to upgrade your analogue front-end...

"Rega P8 (I prefer it to the P10)"

"why? I am curious"

I'm also curious as I had the P8 and P10 side-by-side with the Apheta 3 and the P10 was clearly better, more resolving but not etched, better defined bass, more engaging, you name it. Don't get me wrong, the P8 is a great table for the price, but I can't disagree more after what I heard

@rossb 

"Rega P8 (I prefer it to the P10)"

why? I am curious

+1 @lalitk

Find the best tt/arm and then the road is easier.

I assume that you live in the UK, just to add one for your nice headache, you can check Bauer Audio DPS 3. Could be your end of the road tt.

If your not adverse to used, a SOTA refurbished table from the company is a great buy and will hold its own for quite a while. I have a Star Sapphire with vacuum hold down, an SME V arm and Kiseki cart all for about $7500. Added a Fosgate Signature tube phono stage and I’m done. To me a very fine sounding analog setup.

Rega P8 (I prefer it to the P10)

Rega Aura phono stage (among the best I have heard at any price)

Ortofon Cadenza Bronze

Can you listen to several of the Moon phono pre's? Since you mention a pending Moon upgrade I am guessing you can. Even if you end up preferring another brand, you can get a sense of what happens as phono pre improves.

If you see a second hand STST Motus DQ grab it!

Also look into PTP Audio

I’m not going to recommend a brand-- there is loyalty among those satisfied with what they arrived at- but instead, suggest some considerations:

1. Can you change arms. How good is the arm that comes with the table (if so) and what is its range of utility -most will accommodate a range of what are considered fairly high compliance cartridges- the cantilever motion is easily triggered- but there are cartridges that like more mass and a few (though largely out of vogue) that want to see less mass.

2. What is the turnable’s ability to self isolate. I have a few tables, one is massive but it could not be isolated effectively without extremely costly add-ons. How does the turntable, as delivered, isolate (both self-noise and environment).

3. I tend to break down tables into their component parts- the turnable with motor and controller; the arm (or arms) and the cartridge (leaving aside the phono stage which is an integral part of the phono front end).

4. Your budget could get you some bigger league stuff if used. There are enthusiasts who shy away from TT in particular as used items because they are more mechanical and wear, misuse or damage can be a real issue. So who you buy from, on what terms, is important.

5. it is really hard to demo (evaluate) turntables, tonearms and cartridges. Like almost impossible. But it may still be of value to get eyes if not hands on with various tables (and arms) to better understand what they are doing. Living with a unit is a whole different thing and depends a lot on very precise set up as well as voicing that makes the system sound better. (I’ve heard profound differences by changes in cartridge or the rectifier tube in my phono stage).

Where you are, geographically, may also be a factor in terms of availability, price and support.

What are you running now?

Having used Thorens/SME combos my entire adult life I would start by comparing their new 1600/1601 decks to some of the non-suspended models you list.

The 1601 has automatic lift and platter stop @ the end of play, but I do not completely understand its cuing mechanism (the 1600 is completely manual).

DeKay

@cainullah I currently own Moon 390 and M400s and use a Rega P8 with the Ania cartridge and the internal phono stage for the 390.  In my environment I view the digital and analog sources to be very equivalent.  Some recordings are better on vinyl others are better on digital.   

If I was in your place, I'd buy the P10 with Ania pro or Aphelion and invest in an Isolation platform (I have HRS) and live with it for a few months.  This allows you to option to upgrade if you like or simply buy more records because you enjoy the sound.

Good luck in your journey and let us know how it goes.

"Lotus Elise to the Avid Mercedes SL"

:)

Ariel Atom vs. Nissan GTR

If it has to be new - the decks you cite have a great variation in sound style and quality.

The Rega's are a bit of a Lotus Elise to the Avid Mercedes SL. 

Do you want to buy new or second hand? For instance second hand would allow you to buy a very good 70's DD deck and then you can go to town on the cartridge and phono stage. I bought a Townshend Rock Elite for £300 and a JVC QL0 for about the same price. 

Rega 10 with Aphelion.  Pass Labs XP17.  Keep the change for cables and miscellaneous expenses.  Enjoy the music.

My advice is to find the best phono stage you can.  You can easily get a nice TT and cartridge for decent money.  We use a modified Lenco, and a Lady Bug cartridge.  Denon also makes a nice cartridge and there is a guy on eBay who makes the wood body for it.  Much less that spending thousands.  Since we are manufacturers of audio components including phono stages, we have the opportunity to try many TTs, etc.   To us the phono stage is critical and most important contrary to what others may say.

Happy Listening.

@antigrunge2 This is off the beaten track. Amazing. Thanks. That's certainly a rabbit hole to explore and will keep me busy.

Scheu Premier with Mørch tonearm, Cartridgeman Musicmaker cartridge and Zyx Artisan phonostage. Off the beaten track but all the better for it. Alternatively SCHEU TONEARMS AND mC Scheu cartridges are nice as well. Aqvox 2ci phono stage is a good alternative as well.

"Rega Planar 10 with Aphelion 2 cart (£6,840) and give myself just over £3k to spend on a phono stage"

You’re on the right track. Naturally, there are dozens of other combinations.

Rega for no fuss. Max the budget on phono stage.

Thanks @jerryg123 ​​​​​​. I don't yet have the 390 but I will test the phono in that..I live in London but there is a place called Analogue Seduction about 2 hours away. Perhaps I'll go and spend a day or two up there.

And thanks @lalitk I'll check out TW-Acustic. I'll head up to Analogue Seduction and do some listening to as many combos as I can.

@lalitk , Best advice given so far, +1.

One name missing from your list, TW-Acustic. They make great sounding TT’s and phono-stage. AVID /SME is just as good. With Analog sky is the limit, both in terms of options and $$$$. I would focus on buying the highest quality TT / Tonearm combo your budget allows..once you have the foundation (TT) squared away, tailoring the sound to your preferences by trying phono's and carts becomes relatively easy. Seek a dealer in your area that carry some of the aforementioned brands….a dealer support is vital in putting together a great sounding analog system.

Actually the phono section in the 390 is quite excellent. You could live with it for a good while. Save some money and put it into the TT and Cart. Thorens 1600 and what ever cart floats your boat. A Goldring Ethos works very nice with the TD1600 or 1601.

I love Thorens and have a I have a 44 year old TD145 that just perfect and sounds as good as my ClearAudio Concept Innovation. Both have MP 500 carts love higher end MP/MI over MC. 
 

Just my 2c worth but you should audition a lot of tables with that much cash to burn. 

nice speakers!
PS: I am a big Rega fan, you can't go wrong with it. AVID is the opposite philosophy, heavy as a rock, probably more fun to look at but I only know it from reviews.

Vonhelmholtz. Do you have a Pam G2? That blows my budget. 

Others have recommended the Technics 1200G but I'd anticipated having a belt drive. But open to all options.

I did exactly this in 2022. I went with a Technics 1200G/Hana ML and Sutherland 20/20 with LPS. The turntable cartridge were good, but I can’t say the same for the Sutherland in my system. After 40-50 hours of use I returned the Sutherland and upgraded my analog. The turntable/arm/cartridge retail for $5200 or so. My upgraded turntable/arm/cartridge retail around 20K. The phono preamp $16K, but purchased phono stage used for much less. First, the phono stage selection was critical. My Audionet is very musical with lots of detail. It sounds like a fast balanced tube phono stage. I’m less certain that the table arm were an upgrade, but the new table/arm was more than twice the cost of the Technics. The Hana ML is quite musical and the upgraded cartridge was a bit less than your budget. For this difference in price the MSL cartridge is very fast and detailed compared to the Hana, but the Hana is a much better value. So, I believe that the Sutherland was what I disliked about my initial setup, but I will be selling or trading the Technics/Hana.  Some great suggestions above from members with much more experience than myself.

Thanks Grislybutter. I have FyneAudio F501SP floorstanders. I will also have an Arendal 1961 1S subwoofer. I currently have a Moon Ace All-in-one but will be upgrading that with a Moon 303a Power Amp and Moon 390. I don't know much about AVID. But I thought a Rega Planar 10 + Apheta cart + Rega Aura phono stage could be a good combo.

And thanks Ghdpretence. I'll look at Audio Research and CJ too. 

that's a lot of money, good start. AVID or Rega for sure for both TT and amp within the same brand as they can fine tune them to death 

what speakers do you have?

There are so many choices. I think my initial comment is that I would recommend close to a 50 - 50 split between phono stage and TT / cartridge. Personally I would find the highest level used Audio Research or CJ and spend 40% of my budget on that. Outstanding tubed phonostages have been available for a while.

Then for TT… my way of looking at it is sprung or massive. They tend to have a different sound, lively vs solid (I just don’t have a better generalization, and it is a generality) respectively.
 

Then