I can not live without "Room Correction"
I've been a huge fan of Dirac Live since it was first released as computer software several years ago. Even if your room is acoustically perfect, it can address the speaker and electronics to some extent as well. If your room is not perfect, it will have an even bigger impact. Some of the hardware products are relatively inexpensive, and you can try out the computer software for free. |
This room is rough, so do what you can. You're centered toward the left it looks like? You have first reflections coming from the glass on the left side of the photo far earlier than the right side glass for sure. Using an EQ that has various artifacts, to optimize the area the size of a dime? Our ears are a foot apart. We also might want to move around, or share the room with a friend. Better to treat the room ... first trap bass, then kill first reflections, then get speakers that work with the volume you have and tune the system to the room. |
shkong78, the IsoAcoustic GAIA isolators (and the Townshend Audio Seismic products) address only the speaker they are used with. Addressing the issue of room acoustics is a separate issue, including room dimension-created eigenmodes, reflections, etc. Both speaker enclosure and room related issues can be dealt with if one chooses to do so, but they are completely different issues, addressed by different measures and with different products. |
Keep it SIMPLE!! Everything in the single path has to have some percent of negativity it absolutely impossible not to. Yes a marginal grain here/there. Myself I completely solved 98% of the room injections. Bought a high back leather chairs (2) with upper wrapped wings. Yes vintage. Say styles of the 60's. Look very much a like a Nascar racing seat to keep drivers head from over rotating Left/R'. Stops 99% of any behind you back wall reflections. Upper wings 80% of them same to the left and right of my ears. I place calibrated mike in each chair head /ear high to confirm the chairs really work to reduce standing waives etc.etc. Before not as real that the artist is right there with my Wilsons. Now! Almost the sense you could touch them. Well almost, |
My largish listening room treatment consists of things I own, including a smallish spinet style piano, furniture, books, an oriental carpet, collections of vinyl, CDs, and wax cylinders (actually no cylinders but I tossed them in anyway) and a tall sloping ceiling with side walls far enough away to obviate the dreaded "early reflections" (a great title for a book or music album, or a clothing line made from sheet metal). Also the addition of the remarkably technically advanced Chicken Head knobs on my REL subs to make them easier to turn up or down a little if needed. Chicken Head knobs are far less expensive that DSP gizmos, and add somewhat less pollution to the signal. You do need a small screwdriver for some of them. |
Purchased a DSpeaker Anti Mode 2.0 from(made in Finland) several years ago....easy to use, oodle of possible settings.....but I settled on equalizing signals below 200 Hz....with a sub woofer(Velodyne) and Harbeth 40.1's in my large room, the bass is incredibly realistic and natural. I paid about $1000 for this but you might be able to pick up a used one for less |
Hi All, warning I am a Dealer as a matter of fact I have been a Lyngdorf Dealer longer than anyone in the USA. caution Dealer speaking. The RP1 was the Original stand alone Room Perfect box. It had balanced and single ended inputs and outputs. It sold for around $4000 +/- $200, I just can't recall for sure. A new basic TDAI 2170 has a current retail price of $4000 with out any additional input options. It has a great DAC in it that you can use or not use but unlike the RP1 you can go digital into the TDAI 2170 and Digital out into the DAC of your choice feeding the Tube Pre Amp and Power Amp of your Choice. The Digital out is fixed at 96 K Samples per second. The Room Perfect would would occur before feeding your gear. There is a USB input option and for you that have a great turntable there is an upgraded analog input option that digitizes at 192K and is a delightful front end input. Just saying and I don't think if you used it in that way you would loose any of the Tube Sound you lust after and would gain the stunning benefits of room corrected bass. There are lots of ways to incorporate a Lyngdorf integrated amp into your system and I would be happy to help if you want to contact me. Neal Van Berg neal@soundsciencecat.com |
Digitally corrected, fully time/phase coherent speakers in a room with acoustic treatment require minimal digital room correction. My system uses two DEQX processors in a room with superchunk bass absorbers, speaker first reflection treatment (wall & ceiling) together with rear skyline diffusers. Slight digital eq is necessary only on two remaining wide Q bass peaks. |
I gave room correction a try a while back. I bought a McIntosh MEN220, which I believe uses the Lyngdorf technology. I found that with my digital source, it worked nicely, but it sucked the life out of my analog source. I primarily listen to LP's, so the MEN220 is now gone. I must say that I have done a fair amount of work treating my room, and that is much more sonically satisfying for my taste. |
I have found that room correction is really based on the quality of the speakers used. Some 'lesser' speakers see improvement as I have found when I had the new SVS Ultra Towers for a few months and used the Anthem ARC software; it really helped these speakers do a smoother job. Then I got in some Bryston Middle T speakers and found that no matter what I did with trying multiple scans of the room, the ARC mudded up the speakers, so I ran it without room correction and the Bryston Middle T's sounded wonderful. A few months later I got a pair of gorgeous Santos Rosewood Bryston Model T's and hands down, NO ARC needed at all. The T's are just perfect. My brother who I rarely see came for a visit this past July. He's a video/sound engineer-producer and he has never seen or heard the Bryston Model T speakers. When I put on some high dynamic range music from the 80's-analog of course, he was blown away. He used to work with some of the major bands with live concerts and he said the Bryston's were as good or actually better than what he experienced with the major bands. So there you have it; NO room correction needed, at least with these speakers. My amps by the way are a pair of the Anthem Statement M1 monoblocks with dedicated 248 v/15 amp feeds running at 2000 watts per channel. The T's love the power. |
Hi I too tried digital room correction but found that the " price " by gaining a better tonal balance was too high. The perspective was partwise comprimised and regarding analog playback, i Got a digital print in the soundstage. my soulution was passive roomcorrection, a part from optimal speaker and lisining position, i build passive loudspeaker absorbends to minimize the stranding waves isue. Adding 2 pairs of Shakti hallograps, one set behind the speakers and one set in the sides where the first reflection occured also made a significant improvement. It was also a good improvement to remove the system from between the speakers to the sidewall as well as hanging it on the brickwall and place a lot of decoupling under it. its my beleafe that putting in another DAC in the system easily males a lot of mess. The passive way isent much cheaper but certaintly a heavy task to build and it tales a lot of time too. happy lisining |
To the question about cost-effective room correction options, I use a mac mini-based music player running Dirac to good effect. This works well if all your sources are sourced over the network. Otherwise, you can run Dirac on a relatively low-cost device from MiniDSP. I haven't used them myself, so can't speak to the sound quality of this option, but they've been increasing their Dirac-based product line over the years, so I'm guessing people are liking them. I hadn't heard about Lyngdorf, but I'll have to read up on them now. |
Minimalist Tube Guy Hear: I am fundamentally opposed to putting stuff in the signal path that does not need to be there. The stuff will give you a benefit, but also cost you big in some other way. I think you can achieve room correction in an organic way. In all sound systems, some of the sound comes from the speaker directly to your ear, and some of it is reflected of some surface in the room. If the wave reflected of the left wall it will not then go to your ear, it will go to the back wall, then to the front wall and then to your ear; this compounds the problem. if you can substantially reduce the percentage of sound that is reflected it will skyrocket the performance of your system. My speakers are 6.5 feet apart (measured tweeter to tweeter),, my head is 7.5 feet from each tweeter, and they are canted in about 20 degrees. This is sometimes termed "near field;" This arrangement will go a long way in nullifying reflected sound. Next I have drapery that covers every square inch of the back wall, and one that covers the entire left side wall. Finally, I have an oriental rug between the speakers and my listing chair. If you try some of this, I think you will be happy with the outcome, and there is nothing added to the signal path. |
Lyngdorf does make stand alone room correction units, or they did at least. You do not have to buy say the 2170 or 3400 to get Lyngdorf room correction. https://www.dagogo.com/lyngdorf-rp-1-roomperfect-room-correction-device-review/ |
A room graphic EQ is not room correction. the lyngdorf is very good ,get a vacuum tube preamp and I would think still be able to use the Lyngdorfs room correction. The Mentionof the Accuphase ,which build great products ,these EQ you are using is just a frequency EQ, room correction works totally different .it flattens out peaks in the frequency response with problems within the room with digital processing it takes many frequency sweeps and averages tones is a simplified way to put it. which all rooms have tosome extent. IHave Bass EQ for my low frequencies ,but not full room EQ which is the best for getting the most out of your system. .? WHO makes a good room EQ thatdoesnot break the bank if bought separately ? |
Cheap analog equalizer degrade the treble sound but not good digital equalizer. With my Accuphase digital equalizer, I can get more airy sound with flat extension without degrading the quality. That is the reason that I had been using it 18 years, the longest period in my 40 years of audio history. There could be many other options of digital equalizers but I trust my Accuphase. |
very interesting you have similar issues as I do. I've considered room correction but I too am a tube guy. I've looked at the Lyngdorf as well. There is also the new Anthem 2 ch Pre-Amp with their ARC room correction, link below. That would let someone use a tube amp or possibly some active speakers. there is also a 2ch integrated with ARC. I'm hopping we see more of this in the near future as its really something that works so well. That Acuphase is unique but hard to come by in NA. beautiful speakers by the way. https://www.anthemav.com/anthem-room-correction.php https://www.anthemav.com/products-current/series=str-series/model=str-pre-amplifier/page=overview |
