I’m so sorry to learn of your illness and plight.
Contrary to your point source statement, electrostatic speakers are actually line sources and cones and domes are point sources. But when considering your condition, I'm unsure whether one may be better than the other. However, electrostatic speakers are relatively inefficient, but their low volume level detail is generally better than cone speakers, especially in the bass region, if they are full-range (not hybrid) stats.
Additionally, my guess is that very high efficiency speakers may be a good point to start. You may want to consider horns, or open baffles. A list of S.E.T. friendly (high efficiency) speakers can be found here: The list is near the top of this page.
I wonder how you would fare using headphones?
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Oops, pardon my misinterpretation of your statement about electrostatic speakers. I missed the word "NOT". You were obviously correct about them NOT being point sources....
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unless you meant Quad 63 which attempt to emulate a…point source….
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What are your other selection criteria, such as price, size, placement requirement/limitations, etc.? The best systems for playing softly are quite large horn systems, but, most of the good ones are not commercial models, and they are quite expensive. Some high efficiency systems also seem to be quite dynamic and would sound good at modest levels. I like the Charney Companion systems for their ability to deliver a full and lively sound at modest levels. Audio Note speakers are also a good choice because they sound full and rich at lower volume levels.
If you can find an old Quad 57 electrostatic system in good working order, that would be a good choice too.
Good luck on your search.
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@tiggerfc, thanks for providing so much relevant information.
I’m always at least a little bit skeptical when a dealer suggests the speakers he sells, so I invite you to be more than a little bit skeptical of me.
Before I was a dealer, I bought a pair of big SoundLab curved-panel fullrange electrostats. This was in 1999. The only amplifier I had on hand was woefully underpowered, a bottom-of-the-line Adcom. The combination would not go much over conversational level, but the clarity and warmth and inner detail and timbral richness and bass articulation and spatial quality were all the best I had ever heard. I was so impressed that I changed careers and became a dealer.
These days I’ve added "loudspeaker manufacturer" to my resume’, but the SoundLabs are still the best speakers I know of at what they do well, and "what they do well" includes very low volume listening. In fact I have yet to hear their equal for very low volume listening. Many speakers which sound warm at medium and high volumes lose that at low volumes. At very low volume levels any midrange peaks tend to stick out moreso than at normal levels. This does not happen with SoundLabs. Their frequency response is incredibly smooth (the designer declines to post his data, but I have seen it in real time and it’s outstanding) so there are no peaks to stand out. The tonal balance remains the same as the volume level is turned down, to a greater degree than I have experienced with any other speaker, and this is one of the listening tests I do when seriously auditioning a speaker because it is predictive of long-term listening enjoyment.
The Sound Labs have a HUGE radiating area so there are no on-axis "hot spots" like with conventional speakers. At normal distances they behave like a line source, which means that the sound pressure level falls off by only 3 dB per doubling of distance, while for a conventional point-source speaker it’s 6 dB per doubling of distance. One result is that the sound field in the listening area "feels" like the sound field at a normal distance from a live performance. It’s a very different, and more natural, feeling compared to what you get with convention speakers.
One of my customers has (or "had", this was over a decade ago) a young son with a disability that makes it difficult for him to understand spoken words and virtually impossible for him to understand words over a sound system. With the SoundLabs his son was finally able to enjoy watching kids' movies and videos.
I think one of the reasons SoundLab speakers sound so natural is that their off-axis energy (including their backwave) has the same spectral balance as their first-arrival sound, so the reflections are welcome "signal" instead of unwelcome "noise". This enhances intelligibility and clarity (particularly at low levels) relative to conventional speakers, and contributes to their utter lack of listening fatigue.
SoundLabs can be had with either a 45-degree pattern width (front and back) or a 90-degree pattern width. For your application, I would suggest the 90-degree pattern width. This way more of the sound that reaches your ears will be lower-in-level reflected energy, so you would take in more sound energy for a given first-arrival sound pressure level.
Unfortunately SoundLabs are expensive, that’s just the nature of the beast, so they may not be a realistic option. If they are out of your price range then I do have an idea for a possible alternative, but it would be somewhat experimental.
Very best of luck in your quest.
Duke
dealer/manufacturer/SoundLab fanboy
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Hyperacusis, Tinnitus, Hearing loss over 8k. I can’t do loud either. Makes
other people listening with you crazy. I keep foam earplugs and my Sony
headphones handy.
I do enjoy music as much as anyone. For me 70 dB is enough.
I do believe electrostatics give the best low level listening detail.
For my money the Sanders Sound electrostatic system beats all.
I have asked many people about the best low level speakers and
had no good answers so I can only pass on brands that I enjoy.
Stenheim, Borresen, Vimberg. MBL.
I think the sound agrees with me more on these brands because
they have so little distortion.
Love to hear what you end up with.
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I am not sure how horns and other ultra efficient designs factor into things??
At 50-60dB one could have super inefficient speakers at 80dB/W/m and use a 1W amp and easily power them.
The other half also has some hyperacusis but speakers that are not overly bright do the trick and she likes the volume up for TV.
Any normal/typical sound bar drives her away.
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Dynamics are a salient characteristic of horn-loaded speakers. Accordingly, electrostats are probably your best bet - as aptly mentioned above.
More importantly, I hope your condition improves and that meanwhile, you enjoy a few happy tunes!
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I’ve been listening to the Peachtree GaN400 amp, which has an exceptionally low noise floor. Surprisingly, it is an excellent match with my Zu Omen Dirty Weekend speakers. The Zu has basically no crossover (just a single cap on the super tweeter). The combination is superb at low volume (perhaps not quite the equal of the Quad 57 I owned for a long time and sold, regrettably), never sounding strident and always serving the music well. Tone and refinement are not great strengths, but we make tradeoffs. So I think full-range or nearly so paired with very quiet amplification, including preamp, may be one good path to getting what you’re after.
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I agree that Soundlabs would also be terrific for listening at modest levels, but, the models I really like are monsters in size and they look bigger than their specified dimensions would suggest.
I don't know if you are still in the Virginia Beach area, but, if you can get up to the Tyson's corner area of Northern Virginia, stop into Deja Vu Audio--they specialize in tube gear and speakers for tube gear. I think the Audio Note line that they carry will be of interest to you. They also make their own custom designed system, mostly using a mix of vintage and new drivers, and many of their high efficiency systems are terrific at low volume levels.
Another nice system at low volume level is the Soundkaos Model 42, but this Swiss made system would probably be extremely hard to find.
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My hyperacusis only affects high frequencies and will result in pain. It's intermittent and can happen at any time as well as being triggered by music.
I love the sound of tubes. I also found that using combinations of tubes throughout my entire chain in combination with soft dome speakers has increased my listening time.
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I am not sure how horns and other ultra efficient designs factor into things??
At 50-60dB one could have super inefficient speakers at 80dB/W/m and use a 1W amp and easily power them.
Super inefficient speakers do not play well with milliwatts. In my experience driving super inefficient speakers with milliwatts will sound anemic at low volume. High efficiency speakers can play well with milliwatts and not sound anemic at low volume. Example: Both speakers will be getting milliwatts @ 50-60 dB SPL.😎
Mike
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if i were you i’d go for very wide-dispersion as those will tend to have a "softer" presentation at the listening position, also i’d go for surround sound so there are no "hot spots" of more intense sound. i would also stick to SET amps as [finally got to hear one!] those sound more dynamic at least to these ears, at low volumes.
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So sorry to hear about your hearing. I can’t listen for very long to certain sax and electric guitar music if it’s louder than 75 ish dbs.
Anyway, did you order the Stella integrated? If so, with a 100 watts a side you can A myriad of different speakers. While they are horn speakers, the entire Klispch Heritage series speakers will play great at lower levels. And depending on your budget, the Harbeth 40.3 play very nicely at lower levels as well.
All the best.
JD
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Again, there is no denying the dreaded Fletcher-Munson curve. To combat this you need some sort of EQ, or badly designed speakers with an EQ curve like a big smile.
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I have been diagnosed with misophonia which is very close to hyperacusis.
Misophonia is an emotional response, whereas hyperacusis is a physical response. Both can be very debilitating. My case is on the mild side and basically amounts to some type of repetitive noise (someone incessantly clicking a pen during a meeting or finger nail tapping on a white board to make a point).
I think your case could be treated with hearing aids that are specifically tuned for this. My 2 cents is go see an audiologist and learn as much as you can about your specific difficulty. There are answers out there.
https://www.memorialhearing.com/blog/whats-the-difference-between-misophonia-and-hyperacusis/#:~:text=Misophonia%20and%20hyperacusis%20are%20two,hearing%20aids%20and%20therapeutic%20interventions.
Give it a shot prior to auditioning speakers.
Regards,
barts
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tiggerfc
I can emphathize with your plight.
For decades I've suffered from occasional debilitating bouts of hyperacusis.
That last time was only about 3 years ago when low flying jets at an air show straffed low over head (I wasn't attending the show, just found myself unluckily in their flight path). The damage was so bad sound was distorted, painful, whisper quiet sounds hurt, my family's voices hurt, even my voice or chewing food hurt.
And at the same time I had to continue working in pro sound! (I do sound for film/TV).
I finally was forced in to doing what I'd put off: getting treatment. I did a form of TRT therapy specifically modelled for hyperacusis. This involved wearing small hearing aid type devices that send soft specifically tailored noise all day in to the ears, to get the brain used to sound again, and to "re-wire" so it doesn't see it as threatening.
Usually it takes about 18 months for full recovery. Took me longer and while recovery wasn't full - as in being totally rid of hyperacusis - my ears are more robust than they've been in a long time. Now my wife is always telling me to turn the sound down when I listen to music! A good thing!
Have you had your hyperacusis treated? Does it ever get better?
As for equipment recommendations I can't really help. I tend to go strictly on what sound I like and plenty of different speakers have been great for me - everything from electrostatics, to omnis, to even dreaded "bright" speakers like Thiel!
One magic bullet, I find, has been my tube amplification. It seems to simultaneously fill out the sound while still alowing for a vivid presentation.
In fact, I actually have my CJ tube pre-amp run through my other Benchmark LA4 pre-amp, so i can switch between solid state preamp or tubes in the path. It comes in handy. A few nights ago I was listening to a record that had a muted trumpet, which anyone with sensitive ears knows can be a killer in recordings. They can be so sharp and bright. This was was really thin and bright and it happened to be bothering my ears right at a sensitive frequency. I just switched over to my tube preamp, which thickened and relaxed the sound, and then it was more comfortable to listen to.
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The challenge is to find a loudspeaker that has an accurate (even) tonality and full range frequency response, one but that also has relatively high efficiency and does not require lots of volume to come alive. I've found that some Wilson Audio loudspeakers perform well in this regard.
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As the first reply poster and SoundLab Majestic 845 owner, I obviously 2nd. everyone's full range electrostatic recommendations.
I too hope that you find either a medical or hearing aid solution, before requiring the speaker &/or amplifier solutions you requested. At any rate, I hope you find a suitable resolution. If you do, following-up with same here, would be helpful for any others seeking a similar solution to such a complex issue and condition.
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BTW above, I should have mentioned that @audiokinesis post is one of the best here, as they also are in his other Audiogon postings. As he mentioned, Duke is a SoundLab dealer and also I may add, a great speaker manufacturer in his own right. Over the decades, I have found Duke's forum advice to be very informed and spot-on and as objective as those of us with no vested interests as a manufacturer or dealer. And no, I have no personal association with Duke or the industry in general. I only know and respect Duke's advice from his posts here and elsewhere.
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Thanks to everyone for replying back with some excellent ideas. Sorry I couldn’t chime in sooner. Work. You know...
JD! Yes! I ordered the Stella. I saw all the tubes, did a double-take, counted 16, initially, bought it, recounted to 20 and was like..OMG. That was the fastest audio purchase decision of my entire life. All of one minute from finding the ad to purchasing. Lol. It is what it is. I’m stoked to finally get it (maybe next week?).
As for the other speaker recommendations, I have taken notes and will start down-selecting. I am certainly looking for full range. I’ve demo’d Spatial Audio’s M3 Sapphires before. That was different. Smooth. Warm. Nice detail. Not "hot." But moving away from the sweet spot was detrimental. The AAD 2001 speakers I currently have playing in the background sound excellent even way across the house. That’s nice because if my ears are on fire but I still want to listen, I just turn it up and chill in another room. Not the greatest experience but it does the trick.
I have a bit of audio gear now and the PS Audio Stellar 1200 mono blocks seem to be able to play very quiet and capable of the slightest nuance (much better than my ears would hear!), but the ARC SP-20 won’t let them go as quiet as the Creek, but sounds 100x better. Also has a ton more body, where the Creek was smoother and silkier. Easier to listen to the Creek but again, the sound quality isn’t quite there. That’s why I also ordered the Stella because an integrated, in my experience, has more latitude in volume control. I miss my last integrated quite a bit. Had that one for just over 10 years which I modded, rewired and all. Sounded phenomenal for a crappy Chinese hybrid integrated. But, it did the job! I’d love to build another if I can find another Bada laying around somewhere. I digress...
As for SET amps and high-efficiency speakers, that may be the ticket for "those days." Besides, who the hell doesn’t love a cool little 1W tube amp?!
Anyhow....
Thanks again everyone for the support and recommendations. And to those of you suffering from one form of hearing loss or another, I feel for you as well. It’s a crime to lose something so important, especially when we love good audio and appreciate that gift the way we do.
Lastly, if you haven’t heard, check out www.soundpharma.com. They are in Stage 3 clinical trials for a drug to treat tinnitus, vertigo and other inner ear dysfunction. I’m watching closely. Pray they make it through! It would be the first drug of its kind to enter the market to treat such things. Pretty incredible if it happens. Anyway, thought I’d share some good news. But don’t smoke that cigar yet. The fat lady hasn’t sung yet. Don’t jinx it!
John
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I hope you get relief and me as well. I suffer from HyperA-ringing- and loss at 8000hz. I wear hearing aids which help make the sound from my system more transparent. Constantly chasing a rainbow every 6 months my audiologist and I sit down and tweak the frequency settings. My hyperacutis affects the bass as much as the highs. I usually have to cut off my Home theatre subwoofer now. The pounding bass drives me nuts. It does not help my next door neighbor's grandson from hell and his buddies all have bass boomer trucks. It makes my head feel like it will explode. If you find any relief let us know. I use a Bel Canto E1X with Spendor classic 2/3 speakers for the time being. I may at some point just throw in the towel.
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I used to love going to movies. Unfortunately the combo of getting hyperacusis and the stratospheric sound levels that became common, mostly ruled that out.
Especially for the big tent action flicks.
I can put in heavy duty ear plugs which are good for protecting from the higher frequencies. But they are powerless against the bass - onscreen explosions etc send bass conducting right through the bones of my body (and ear bones) and I'll walk out of the theater with my ears screaming for a long time afterwards.
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