how much should I spend to get a better turntable than my current turntable?

I had a 1200 series Dual and replaced it with the MMF-7 which was much better. If you have a $500 budget This is one of the best Dual TT’s ever made according to many. What you have now is the very bottom of the ladder TT's.

Dual 5000

That Fluance TT is nice and it comes with a good cart. 

Cool. Let us know what you end up with. 

@audphile1 

I have to sell some gear to be able to buy the Fluance, I think that makes the most sense 

any idea where vintage Marantz sells the fastest?

Yard sale?

thank you @thecarpathian but I was hoping for more than $5

Oh, why didn’t you say so?!

Seriously, Craigslist and/or USAudiomart stipulating local pick up only or meet them within a certain radius. See if you can find a comparable one on hifishark for an idea of its value. Vintage Marantz ought to sell pretty quickly, depending on what model it is.

Rega-no brainer

I sold Marantz 2252b (i miss her soooo much already) and mmf-2.2. Ordered Fluance RT85.

I heard the tone arm of the Fluance is not great, will find out in 4 days!

Did you get more than $5?

@thecarpathian 

haha!

I sold my marantz for 5 times what I paid for it 10 years ago. 
I sold the mmf-2.2 for 1/5 of what I paid for it 8 years ago. 

NOT making it up!

Ok. So, if my calculations are correct (I’ve been working on them for the last half hour), if you paid more than a dollar for your Marantz, you did in fact-going out on a limb here-make more than $5.

Well then - Yahtzee!

I invite any fellow members with a mathematics background to check my numbers for accuracy.

@thecarpathian

I don’t know how to say this. This is not fun for me. Wife is absolutely monitoring these expenses. It’s incredibly hard for me to make new purchases. And once I do, I have to listen to "you bought another XYZ, that looks and sounds just like the old one but it cost twice more!!!! etc." which is super painful. So as much I love math and humor (I have the biggest humor) I don’t get your point.

mmf was $449

I bought the Marantz for $150.

Any more questions?

Just playing on the previous $5 shtick. I meant no harm. Think it's terrific you made a nice profit on the Marantz. I wish you good fortune with your new turntable.

Thank you!

I appreciate the humor ALL THE time.

I just don’t know if you know that selling used gear (when I got no leverage, and I depend on every penny, and everyone low-balls) can be painful

Other than that I think I projected and felt you were pushing my buttons with implying that the Marantz is a dollar-sale junk.

(I have other items in the garage that well, have a value or not)

@grislybutter think about the new turntable that’s en route and stop being so sensitive. 
what cartridge did you opt for on your RT85?

@audphile1 

I AM NOT SENSITIVE JUST EASILY FREAKING OUT!!!!

:)

the Blue

Nice! Looking forward to your thoughts on this new table!

OP,

I found that buying my significant other an expensive present before upgrading a component on my audio system was the key. 
 

Over the last 36 years, this has enabled her to get a great home theater she loves (thank god she does not like jewelry) while building my system. Not much she can say when I think of her first. 

It arrived (!) Fluance RT85

My first impressions:

I set it up as described. The antiskating is not working, neither the counterbalance. If I set it to the prescribed values, the needle just skips and runs. So that must be my learning curve, now I have more appreciation for mmf. I asked another family member to start from scratch, read the manual, set it up, same result.

Also, the adjustable feet don’t adjust. They just don’t turn.

So I will figure out the proper setup.

The next issue is the plastic cover and the black piano surface. The cover has scratches on it from my fingers. Permanent, visible scratches. I was so careful I didn’t breathe when I touched it.

The black surface looks like will have scratch marks on it if I just look at it too long. It seems very impractical for the benefit of well.... not looking that great. I mean it looks OK, but nothing spectacular. But now I understand that practical beats pretty. I don’t want to freak out every time I swap albums and something falls out from my shirt pocket.

Anyway, maybe it will grow on me. It looks like a decent and solid design aside from the tonearm (maybe I read too much about it) being/feeling somewhat mediocre.

If it sounds good, I will forget about these issues and adjust, we must please our gadgets :)

What you’re describing is a product of turntable not being perfectly level, antiskate is not properly set and VTF isn’t right.

First and foremost, make sure the table is level - remove the cover, use adjustable feet or coins under the feet and check that it’s perfectly level using a bubble level. Only then set antiskate and VTF (use digital stylus force gauge for VTF). Check it all and test it. Play your records without the cover on the turntable. The cover is there to keep the dust away and not for using when playing records.
Second - the black lacquer finish is susceptible to scratches. Use soft microfiber cloth to keep it clean but there’s no way around it, you’ll get swirl marks and light scratches. I wouldn’t worry about it too much.
Get the set up right.

@audphile1 I did level it. That's the only thing I got right. 

If I am supposed to play records without the cover, why didn't they come up with an easier way to take it off?

Why…is it too difficult to remove the cover? Should just slide into and out of the mounts on the back. 

It does slide but it shakes and moves the the body (slightly). I will shut up and listen now.

Send it back. Seriously. Everything you say says… used, and really poor quality. Sometimes it is just best to wait, save up and get something of quality. I recommend looking at a new Rega. Send it back. Don’t justify junk.

@ghdprentice +1. You don sound like you feel you got your money’s worth. Earlier I recommended Rega P2 set up by Upscale. You can’t go wrong there. 

Another vote for the Dual 1019.  It was a beautiful piece of equipment when I saw one in college.  Edge-on, you couldn't tell if the table was spinning unless it had some marking -- its machining was so precise that it was hard to see the motion.

The ELAC Miracord 50H is also a great table of the same vintage.  Not quite as well-engineered as the Dual 1019, it had its own beauty plus really nice feather touch mechanical control buttons.

Sounds like a downgrade from the Music Hall. Hopefully you can return it. The 2.2 is a budget table. I have one still. If you move up to the 5.X or 7.X series or one of the mid-range Pro-ject tables you'll be a lot better off. Maybe a used one already set up for you.

seriously grateful for the feedback to all of you! I do feel this would be a compromise in that it is a so-so upgrade to the music hall. It does sound slightly better but no magic, like my other components. Next stop Rega, it seems?

Just trying to be helpful here, but I think the tonearm balancing instructions in the Fluance manual are not as clear as they could be for folks who are not already familiar with the procedure. 

Step 6 is:

“Set only the counterweight indicator ring to “0” on the center line while keeping the tonearm balanced then lock the tonearm on the tonearm rest.”

Step 6 should be:

“Lock the balanced tonearm on the tonearm rest, then rotate the counterweight indicator ring to zero with one hand while holding the counterweight stationary with the other hand.”

@rockrider got it! Yes, now it makes sense. A World of difference, thank you!

I too would favor a Rega.....they have much experience in building turntables.   I too would agree that any used turntable would need new parts (idler wheel, bearings, etc.) to even approach what they used to do.

If u are willing to be patient and will buy second hand look out for a technics sl1200 very solid and upgradable too.

Likewise check out for a classic dd from the 70’s

Linn LP12’s can be had for your kinda money too

@lohanimal

I like the Linn, Technics looks so techno, DJish

So I had to compare it, I am an audiophile on some level (nowhere near the level of the folks here) after all.

It’s not a fair comparison, I got a a Rega P3. Three times (3X) the price.

I can say I grew very comfortable and happy with the Fluance. It’s a much better value for $500 than the Rega for $1400, The differences are small.

Here is what’s going for the Rega:

It feels different. It feels expensive, high quality.. The Fluance does not feel cheap but borderline pasticky. I love the design, the arm, and the Fluance platter.

I can say that the Rega is NOT a better looking unit than the Fluance. (It has 2 flaws, the height of the plynth is "wrong", it should be taller or shorter and the fluance logo is lame. Hard to see, hard to read, just a bad logo.)

When I touch them, what first stands out is moving the Rega arm and dropping it. It feels simple, firm, flawless, and screams of precision engineering. If dropping the arm sells, the Rega builders know what they are doing.

Lastly the sound. Hands does the Rega is more detailed, crisp, a bit brighter even. In a live recording, you can hear a lady cough in the back row.

It’s not a whole lot better because the Fluance sound IS great. It’s - if I had to quantify it - perhaps 10% better. But that 10% is pure and robust, net joy in my ear. It shows.

Now, is that worth almost a $1000 extra? It’s like falling in love, you don’t know what makes you happy until you know, until you stop looking.

Congrats on the Rega P3! This is definitely a turntable your system can grow around. Rega will start widening the gap with Fluance as your system becomes more resolving. At this price point it’s a solid table.

If you are in Europe with 50hz as opposed to USA 60hz there is a Townshend elected rock with arm on e b a y uk

@audphile1 thank you! Yes, I think the upgrades as well as the synergy (first time I using the word!) will afford me a lot of not so subtle improvements!

If you decide to sell the Fluance, I’ll give you $5 for it...😁

@grislybutter 

Congrats. The P3 may be more expensive but how much value do you put on enjoying the music more, and the Rega will last as long as you want it to - better value in the long term.

You can always slip in a Neo power supply and new cartridge on the quiet.

Great little system you have - you could have easily spent more and got less.

Enjoy.

OP,

Congratulations.

How many hours do you have on your new table? Like all equipment there is breaking and the sound tends to get more relaxed and improve over time.

Also, higher end equipment tends to be better in subtle ways… which you become aware of and more appreciative over time. I don’t remember if you kept your old table. But if you did… I bet if you swapped it back in after 100 hours you would be shocked at how poor it sounds in comparison.

So enjoy your new table. I am sure it will bring you years of enjoyment.

late to the party, but my 3 cents here.  many years ago, (i was only 13 and didn't know any better), i bought a new dual 1219.  my step brother worked at a stereo shop, and could get anything at cost, so it was 50% off.  one of my happiest audiophile days was when i literally pitched it into a dumpster after suffering with if for 25 years - its idler drive totally sucked, w/horrible wow/flutter - that you could easily see thanks to its built-in strobe. its return mechanism was totally fiddly after about a year.  i don't even mind that i could have just parked it in storage and sold it to some sucker for $300 today, that thinks they're anything special.  at the time, throwing it into a dumpster felt GREAT!  😁

my step-brother recommended i buy an empire 598, about the same price. i should have listened to him.  because i bought one for my daughter a couple years ago, and i have a rare 498, and a 298 w/980 arm, w/the rare factory anti-skate mechanism.  any of these turntables will outperform a rega p3, when properly set up, and they're pretty indestructible. (i'm familiar w/the p3 as i helped a buddy of mine set his up, and i've helped him tweak it over the years - decent deck, but not up to the performance level of the empires.)  i think the empires are competitive w/pretty-much anything you could buy new for up to $3k retail.  and i think the market agrees, as these have been steadily creeping up in price on the used market.  my empires are damn close to my original oracle delphi (pre mk1) that's been upgraded to mkv specs and fitted w/an o-l silver taper arm and o-l dc motor kit.

my oracle:

daughter's 598:

my 298 w/980 arm:

so, anyone looking for a great deck at a relatively bargain price, keep the vintage empires in mind.

ymmv

doug s.

what about the pictures @sedond ?​​​​​​

@grislybutter

what about ’em? should i not have posted them? or are you not able to see them? they show up fine on my computer...

ok, i take that back - they show up fine only when i’m using opera; nothing there for edge and google. 😮 not sure how to fix that...

trying again (this time i'm in google) - the 298/980 empire:

the 598 empire:

the oracle:

doug s.

I just thought they were closeups of a white plinth...

@thecarpathian

😁

doug s.

it's a pain to add images here

it's a pain to add images here

You’ve painted a good image of the frustration just using words.

I had a Rega P1. The anti-skating went on it.  I took it to three studio repair

shops - none of them could figure out a fix.  I sent an e-mail to Rega - 

no response.  I will never buy another Rega product.