I don’t really have the credentials to be on Audiogon. Kef Q150s and new NAD equipment that replaced my stalwart Arcam Solo. Maybe I can peek over the fence. So I’ve have a question about the new equipment. I’m browsing the forums, looking for an answer. I know as much as about audio as anyone who isn’t an audiophile. But I was astonished at the number of brands I’d never heard of. And I know the price of the stuff I have heard of. I’m in NYC. Maybe there’s five high-end dealers here. I’m guessing that number drops off quickly once you cross the Hudson. This is a long winded way to ask how you live the audiophile life? How do you get access to this stuff? I’d want to hear something before dropping a car-like sum on it. Do you buy blind? Do you travel? Go to the industry shows? Help me, teach me, inform me. I guess this question applies to speakers as well. Maybe more so. But I was in the amplifier section so . . .
Lots of good advise. I agree with the guy who: find a group of audiophiles. We have a group through meetup.com Lots of guys willing to share and help. Robert Harley's book is helpful to get the audio neurons going. So is Smith's. Check Craigslist for some good buys if want to explore a bit. But, probably the best advice is to ENJOY THE MUSIC- not the equipment so much, unless that's your goal. If the music moves you, you are there... Makes no sense if your moving, you can't be "there"... See millercarbons video- he's moving and he's there. The Dude of audiophileness.
I'm not sure there is any secret to the "audiophile life" other than to create a sound that pleases you. Many people strive to reach what the music would sound like live but for me at least that is a difficult standard to reach. I have been to numerous concerts involving well established artists and I have never found a constant sound since all music environments are different, the sound equipment at each concert is always adjusted to the taste of the sound engineer and the instruments can themselves sound different based on the brand, age, speakers and amplifiers used, etc. The result of all of this is that I don't really know what certain instruments SHOULD sound like since there just isn't a constant sound for any instrument to emulate. Strive for what you imagine the sound would be like and what pleases you. Quite frankly, I believe some of our music systems could easily sound better than a live performance of that same material by that same artist given all of the vagaries mentioned above. I have walked out of concerts based on poor sound - there just isn't any reason to think that live sound is always perfect and recorded music necessarily always inferior.
I'm not sure there is any secret to the "audiophile life" other than to create a sound that pleases you. Many people strive to reach what the music would sound like live but for me at least that is a difficult standard to reach. I have been to numerous concerts involving well established artists and I have never found a constant sound since all music environments are different, the sound equipment at each concert is always adjusted to the taste of the sound engineer and the instruments can themselves sound different based on the brand, age, speakers and amplifiers used, etc. The result of all of this is that I don't really know what certain instruments SHOULD sound like since there just isn't a constant sound for any instrument to emulate. Strive for what you imagine the sound would be like and what pleases you. Quite frankly, I believe some of our music systems could easily sound better than a live performance of that same material by that same artist given all of the vagaries mentioned above. I have walked out of concerts based on poor sound - there just isn't any reason to think that live sound is always perfect and recorded music necessarily always inferior.
‘Audiophile life’. Probably akin to going down a rabbit hole and doomed to audiophilia nervosa . Yet some have been successful and happy. Please forget about audiophile equipment , otherwise you could end up playing the same 12 tracks all your life on equipment demos. Rather enjoy the music. I remember enjoying music off a budget 2 speaker, all in one record player system in my high school days. Still trying to better that sound . Some could claim age related hearing loss . Well one could age a lot and still be chasing equipment, power supply, cables, tweaks , equipment racks , room treatment , the latest digital equiment, Uber expensive vinyl, endless sleepless nights , countless hours poring over the net , comparing your kit to others/ Hifi stores ,neglecting important aspects of life and health etc. Not to mention losing money better spent elsewhere. I have done all this and years since starting I’ve got it right , well just about. But listening to other simple inexpensive systems give me as much joy and maybe more considering the small cost. I’ve come to believe the follliwing. 1. Set a moderate budget. 2 .Go to a reputable dealer who sells reliable stuff known for excellent after sales service. Listen to what’s on offer. 3.Compare to another dealer if possible.4. When you like something insist on home demo. 5. Buy and forget about it totally. I mean totally. Do not compare to others. You could find better. But never perfect.6. DO NOT UPGRADE. JUST ENJOY THE MUSIC. I’m expecting a lot of comments for my views , hopefully in a friendly spirit.
If we knew Then what we know Now....this conversation wouldn't be occcuring in all likelyhood. And perhaps everyone else would be subject to that knowledge as well....
"Another fine mess we'd get ourselves into!"....to paraphase, loosely...;)
asvjerry.... and still......audiophile life means to scratch even when there’s no itch. .....never ending pursuit of that tiny improvement closer to the truth with the law of diminishing returns. Addiction ? O. C.D. ? Perfectionist as in doing things as best possible . Sometimes the recording , equipment and state of mind meet bringing ... tears to mine eyes . Making it all worth it
The nature of this addiction (the bloom, the air, the dynamics, the timbre - yes all mainly from those vinyl years!) which can lead to many problems including that 'you could end up playing the same 12 tracks all your life on equipment demos'.
'I remember enjoying music off a budget 2 speaker, all in one record player system in my high school days.'
My experience too. I've often wondered what it would be like to get a well preserved example of that same system and listen again. Would it sound great, or more likely crap? I don't know, but I suspect the latter.
What I do know is that nothing, no system since has given me anything like the same pleasure as that one did. I was totally immersed in the music for years. The only tweaking issue being occasional adjustment of the t wire aerial for FM reception on some weaker stations.
So what happened? Well, first of all I must have started to run out of the supply of this purely divine music and tried to somehow maintain the strength of the musical hit I was intoxicated with via the route of equipment upgrades.
I mean once you get past Sgt Pepper, Revolver, Rubber Soul, White album, A Hard Day's Night, Help!, Blonde on Blonde, Highway 61 Revisited, Bringing It All Back Home, Astral Weeks, Forever Changes, Led Zeppelin IV, Velvet Underground, Unknown Pleasures/Closer and greatest hits by Elvis, Buddy Holly, Rolling Stones, Who, Sex Pistols and various 45s it's just got to be downhill after that, hasn't it?
This all happened mainly between the age of 15 and 19. After that it was university and the discovery of separates. As you say, 'akin to going down a rabbit hole and doomed to audiophilia nervosa.'
Is this what this all is, an unending Proust like attempt to recover the lost pleasures of youth?
Or is it simply a transition problem? In my case, after university I took some time before grudgingly settling into a job and even more time before settling down into marriage and family. I wasn't keen on the family aspect but my wife was. I'm far happier with it now, and it's certainly precious to me now, but it was one hell of a transition.
Or maybe is this all simply a case of searching for something elusive in a digital format which was easily found in analogue LP? I don't know, but I suspect not. After all why would my cheap all in one system give me far more pleasure than my later LP12/Ittok/K18? Doesn't make sense until I factor in all that 'audiophilia nervosa' nonsense.
There's also the fact that digital can sound beautiful on rare occasions admittedly, but it definitely can. For example check out the sound on a few of those early Smith's CDs.
So thanks again for reminding us of what's really important here. It's very easy to skip over posts here as you have your morning tea, but yours I had to read a few times.
alfa, and cd318....*s* Yes, there's the 'black hole' tug to ascend/plumb the range of audiophila....Add this, tweak that, speakers rivaling the monolith of 2001, padding the 'listening den' enough so it looks less 'room' then padded cell....
Which there are those that would consider that last item as a fit analogy. ;)
If one finds self talking to family/friend/coworker/stranger at an event about audio to the point of not noticing glazed eyes to the point of concrete....
If 'Restrait' becomes necessary.....You're doomed, a terminal case. *L*
cd, I'd like to have some of the old equipment I've owned. Knowing what I know now, I wager I could still startle you, if only for the momentary lapse of reason....
The specs of SOTA haven't improved that much, unless one possesses a startling pair of ears, and the 'wetware' to process with them.
I make no claim to owning such....I prefer to listent to the music, given 'what' I call 'music' and what I enjoy hearing....for fun, for 'acting analytical', or just trying to see if I can break what I've made.
I own nothing that would destroy my finances if it goes *foom*. A mix of old, vintage, new (mostly 'pro' audio; I like 'flexibility'), some items that have 'rubbed my the Right way'...
The list likely would impress none...esp. here on AG. I've noticed there's a significant population of those with a similar 'bent'. Old isn't bad, per se....if you like it, it's Good to Go.
My Spotify play list plays for nearly 48 hours.....and doesn't count the bookmarks made in Chrome. And it's all over the board as to what...
As of now, my 'pile' is undergoing a major 'revamp'. Parts of which a child can operate. The balance begins to need an operational manual....even for me. *L*
It’s a lot like heroin addiction. I believe the hard core addicts call it chasing the dragon 🐉 At least that’s what I read. 😬 Example: “I heard a system that blew my mind 30 years ago and I’ve been trying to get within 5% of it ever since.” 🤯
That’s how they get ya. They start you out on the harmless stuff, you know, 45s and 8-tracks and cassettes. Before you can turn around, BOOM! you’re a full-blown audiophile with a $30,000 system. They don’t call them dealers for nothing, ya know. Hel-loo!
cd, I suspect a SO somewhere 'modded' the door to the audio cave door with a lock on the exterior ONLY....👀! (🤷♀️*L*)
The reason and rationale could likely be understood, given 'extenuating' circumstanse....extremism begets extreme response, in relationships as well as audio pursuits....but all of this is mere conjecture on my part. *G*
I haven’t stepped foot in an audio store in more than 20 years, yet my system has continued to evolve via several relatively low cost DIY upgrades.
I’m fortunate enough to have acquired a couple of Dynaco ST-70s, and a Lazarus Cascade Basic tube pre-amp years ago. During the Covid 19 lull I rebuilt all of them. The Dynas got the wonderful VTA PCB boards, and the Lazarus got new caps and resistors....all got new tubes. The Dynas are now running in a vertical bi-amp configuration, as suggested by VTA’s Bob Latino.
While I was at it I bought some bulk 4-conductor 12 gauge OFC cables and made some new runs of speaker wire.
Overall, the system has never sounded better to me, and it’s been a lot of fun to find some renewed interest in it.
Next up - A fairly inexpensive outboard DAC for my old Denon CD player.
"....extremism begets extreme response, in relationships as well as audio pursuits....but all of this is mere conjecture on my part. *G*"
I hope so. Even though the existence of the hi-fi widow has been known since the days of Edison, I'd like to think we're all doing better than that - lockdown or no lockdown.
My own audiophile journey has known many low points, for sure many have cleaned the mains plugs and fuses, but the holes for the wires too and sockets too? Then there was that ludicrous 350 mile round trip to pick up some Quad ESLs, and let's not even start on all those various turntable mods..
However, however getting locked up in my over bass trap-treated room by my spouse?
@knotscott, +1....Breathing new life into some vintage things is a reward unto itself...*S* "Returning to one's roots' is just as valid (imho) as chasing SOTA....
Those objects may have begun your 'obsession'....so there's a certain degree of joy in engaging in some 'introspection' as to what lit your fire in the first place. ;)
Spouse & self took great satisfaction in taking a 1907 Victorian bungalow back in SF and getting it ready for it's next century.
Absolutely no qualms about doing the same for 'vintage' anything should be the same, frankly.....unless the item has achieved some sort of status of 'religious worship' amongst 'those that know'. Then it's better to send it on it's way, and let someone else default virgin status...*L*
Hi, cd...*G* I keep thinking about a line from Laurie Anderson....
"Are things getting better? Or are things getting worse?"
I suspect we've all gotten to plumb that ying/yang well enough to finally 'go with the flow', but give it a directive 'tap' to keep from getting drowned or beached....*L* The Lockdown Lowdown luckily hasn't effected us as a couple or as a business entity to any great degree...other than making us look like the rest of the masked hoard. Part of the daily details....life 'n strife continue....
My 'audioexodus' has been a sorid and assorted mortal coil all it's own. No 350 r/t's (but I'll bet it was worth it , wasn't it? *G*) involved, but from 'meh' to 'medium rare, warm center' with artichoke and a Real Caesar salad with a good red took some time. ;)
I/we had our 'quiet time', when audio had to 'go on mute' for awhile; I think that can occur for many reasons, and we had ours....
It's returned with a vaguely reduced roar....;) Currently, SAF is happy that I'm engaged in my 'preoccupation' with things dipole and omni. As long as the SMGa Maggies' exist in the pending living room....no concern over being trapped in anything approaching a padded anything. *L*
Turntable mods....*L* Tangetal truant, I confess. Looking to 'mod' an SL8 Rabco that used to be a daily driver. Actually Own an ST4! Noisy critter, bought for 25$ new, in box, from a dealer that couldn't move it.... (Bought just because it was there and needed a home where it may be laughed at, but loved just for what it is...weird. *L*)
I so rarely change equipment (1989 to 2005, DAC this year), that most high end companies would go broke. So, I am more of a tweaker for the past four years.
Mind-matter interaction. Honest injun. It’s a whole enterprise/hobby unto itself. I would say it’s an undertaking, but, well, you know...Kind of like Feng Shui for audiophiles. The study of the influence of the local physical surroundings on the sound. You could say the lower the entropy the better the sound. Check it out, dudes and dudettes!
I live "just across the Hudson" in Jersey City and until recently, I lived in CT and have commuted into Manhattan for a long stretch. This area is spoiled in terms of the # of high end dealers but even then, there is a lot of equipment I have wanted to demo and can't.
One of the things I have learned through the years is that I demo'd as many things as I could, especially things that were reviewed. I would read the review, listen and then read the review again to see if I could understand what the reviewer was saying. This helped me understand the relative sound profiles of different equipment.
Once I got my head around that, i was able to read reviews and understand what I was reading and what to expect. This helped me be able to purchase things blindly without being disappointed. In fact, my biggest disappointment was one i listed to extensively at a NYC retailer that did a very poor job of explaining what the room requirements were for the speakers I bought.
Ultimately, I have started my own company. Designed my own speakers and import products I like. I also resell products I like. It has been fun but the business basically was born from unhappiness with high end retailers.
"Are things getting better? Or are things getting worse?"
I suspect the advance of audio is much like the advance of civilization, forever moving forwards, and then backwards, and forwards again. Enlightenment followed by the dark ages followed by enlightenment and then so on.
How long has it been since Democritus, Socrates, Euclid, Aristotle, Pythagoras etc? How long since the construction of the Antithykera mechanism? How much progress since have we really made?
When was the real golden age of audio? Was the highest point the 1950s where many people took an active part in building hi-fi equipment and actually demanded and sought out higher quality recordings? Or is it now?
Did we really need 4 track and beyond? There’s plenty of recordings out there doing fine in plain mono, aren’t there?
If the wheels of history are driven by what the people want, then is it not also fair to say that the audio consuming public seem content with compressed garbage, err I mean music?
So did the CD/loudness wars era usher in a new dark age for audio? Were many of the advantages of digital recording and playback simply casually discarded in an attempt to stand out even further on AM/FM radio?
So are we audiophiles hopelessly fighting against the majority and merely pissing against the prevailing audio wind?
Or could we be on the cusp of a new audio awakening where we will witness the digital era coming to fruition, finally relegating analogue to history once and for all?
Either way, the audiophile life has never been easy. Even the well-heeled rarely seem to get what they really want, whilst the rest of us may merely be chasing a most enticing mirage, but mirage nonetheless...
The mirage is the pursuit of ready made marketing electronic components at always higher price....
If you takes the matter in your own hand, and it is easier than any can imagine, there is no more mirage, only real hi-fi experience at peanuts cost...
Most cannot believe that, and some dont even want to listen to that at all.... :)
They'd still be arguing over it....more likely to come to blows (not 'blow', BLOWS....fisticuffs, *wack, wack*, bloody encounters....)....
Some must be making $, Eu, Something.....otherwise we'd have 0 to rant 'n rave over, either.... *L*
I'm still on the fence re Bluetoothed speakers....more stuff 'twixt sound waves in my personal atmosphere space place...
(...but it's a Beautiful Day in WNC, the spouses' Bday, a nice dinner out reserved....so I'm just being the Devils' right-handed left foot...for now...)
The answer to the Pop Quiz is System Engineer. The other types of engineers are too hyper focused on their own areas of expertise to be able to solve all of the problems that exist for any system. Once you graduate 👨🏻🎓 from Audio 101 it’s time to put on your system engineer hat🧢 and figure out what problems you have in your system. 🤔 Oh, they’re there. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find those problems and solve them.
GK, being on the cusp of a major revamp of my 'system' and its' 'systemic problems' I will keep your words of wisdom in my head....
...next to the better Buddhist side of my psyche', while the Nihilist on the other side, alongside the existentialist debate as to a response and the means to an end of the venture....
(Fortunately, the desktop system remains above the upcoming fray and provides a means of retreat....)
Just another assumed weekend project. That takes the week.....*L*
CD318. Your experience is very similar to mine. Pinthrift: my final frontier was coupling my speakers to the walls ... and then happiness. I’ve decided I’m done. The end. Now just enjoying the music for what it is. This is an excellent thread and all the posts have been excellent reminders not to stray from the path.
Hello All, I too am beginning my journey into audiophile land and could think of no better way to start than to sign-up here and start my education. I come from HT as a film lover with a significant investment there. But as the film scores and sound engineering have progressed over recent years I started upgrading my audio equipment. It didn’t take long to realize that while I was changing up the sound stage for movies, the music became increasingly more interesting. I have always felt something almost spiritual with good music, but until recently I’ve rarely heard it played well. I am a real neophyte here, with little more than marginal equipment. My first concern is about my recent purchases of an Emotiva A-5175 and a Acurus A200 x 3. I know neither of these qualify for serious audiophiles but its where I’m starting. I run DefTech BP9020 towers and MartinLogan Dynamo 500 subs x 2, with a Denon x4500h as a preamp. What this meager little system has done for me is open the door to what is possible. I have also purchased a Bluesound Node 2.1 and subscribed to Qobuz Sublime and Tidal Hi-Res. Roon soon. But could you help, even at this very low level? I first must decide which amp to keep, so I’m ABing them over the next few days. I suspect the Acurus, if its in decent shape, will out-perform the Emotiva. I’ll listen carefully. But your thoughts and recommendations are most welcomed. Don’t worry, I’m not thin-skinned, be honest. I want to be shown the best paths. And thank you for this wonderful forum.
I started with Emotiva in 2009 before they were really well known. It’s a fine place to start. I still have my Emotiva preamp boxed up just in case.
For me the magic came when I started to perceive height in my sound stage. A pair of JBL 4312a ‘s and Emotiva amp showed me this. Don’t worry about source material either. A good system will still create magic with MP3, DSD, streaming, Bluetooth, vinyl or reel to reel tape. I can prove it.
Once you begin to be able to discern spacial elements like scale, position, depth, height and width from two speakers you are on the right track. This means you’ve positioned the speakers properly (at least) and that you may have found a good speaker for your room.
Localities of sound can be super specific. Different amplifiers will produce different scale, layering and tonal characteristics. But the speakers are the final arbiter of how everything sounds. So start there.
Try different amplifiers out. Play with the accuracy and tonality of your digital sources (DACs are important). Try some simple room treatments, nothing crazy. Once the speakers vanish (with eyes closed) and you can hear sound 4, 6, 12 feet away from your speakers, sometimes behind your head.... ...and sometimes if you find yourself, even to music that isn’t specifically for it, you find yourself ‘dancing’ (in your seat) say to something obscure like Genesis “Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging,” “...Theb you know that you are there...” (to quote PC of Genesis “Silver Rainbow”) Please feel free to direct message me if you have questions!
Thanks, BrettMcee! Really appreciate the encouraging words, and suggestions. Speaker placement is a little limited but there is room to work it more, try some things out. I’m fascinated with integrating DACs into the system. My first opportunity will probably be putting a Schitt behind the Bluesound player. But after that I’m at a loss as to thinking of how else the system I have could be enhanced using DACs. Again, about thoughts very much appreciated.
@audiodidact I just added 'the Schitt' to my system. I have an ModWright Oppo 105D. It's an excellent performer. But in my never ceasing pursuit to remove distortion and reduce sibilance in my system, I found even the entry level Schiit helped with the accuracy of the 2khz-10khz range and decreased smearing, so any present sibilance became more delineated and musical, less spitty, cutting, tearing. It is also helpful if the DAC can reveal/illuminate any reverb that surrounds those frequencies.
I also found a very special vintage power amp and an even more special old pro amp that are now my two primary amplifiers. I will probably not be sharing what those amplifiers are at the moment as most audiophile peeps would laugh me from the forum. But these amps (in my setup, my room, and with the music i primarily listen to) have bested a CJ 350 Premiere, a BAT VK-500 with BatPak, a Spectron Musician III mk2 , Carver Sunfire Signature Sunfire 600, a Carver Lightstar 2.0, an Adcom 555 and more.
I have visited Optimal Enchantment https://optimalenchantment.com and other local shops... Optimal Enchantment has a gorgeous all-tube AR setup that is once of the best i've heard. I also visited AXPONA 2018.
For my room, for my preferred music, I would put my system up against any system that I have heard.
((...I am willing to be tested, but I am pretty sure I have 'golden ears'.
One measure we do not measure is 'speed of hearing'. Think of it as frame rate is to film or how quickly can you get information from moments.
They say Ted Williams could see the spin of the ball and thats why he was such a great hitter. I was a great hitter (until i grew an irrational singular fear of being hit in the face with the ball) and I'm in an industry where I 'have to see the spin of the ball' all day long. So I know i am well practiced in getting/perceiving near pixel-level data on individual frames--at speed--which is 24 to 30 frames a second.))
I welcome anyone in or passing through the LA area to come on over for a listen. Just private message me.
Comparing a ‘live concert‘ to your home system is a bit odd in my mind. Unless we are talking classical/orchestral concerts in a non-amplified venue or jazz in an intimate room. Even then Jazz and Classical/Orchestral recordings are rarely recorded as you would hear them. Multiple mics are used, instruments and performers are mixed in with live ‘room mics’ to come up with a pleasing ‘live sounding’ result. If we are talking Pop, Rock, Techno, Rap, ProgRocComparing a ‘live concert‘ to your home system is a bit um, a bit odd in my mind. Unless we are talking classical/orchestral concerts in a non-amplified venue or jazz in an intimate room. If we are talking Pop, Rock, Techno, Rap, ProgRock, Hip Hop, R&B, Metal, Trance, Disco, Dance, Country, Soul, Reggae....live concerts are amplified and generally live venues, especially ones with amplifiers elements, are an echoey mess. Everything is going through microphones, or microphones on speakers, there are tape loops, direct sends from keyboards and tons of vocal effects all mixed through a board and re-presented to you again via amplifiers and speakers... It’s cool to hear a recorded concert you attended played back on your system. But the two experiences will sound different. You could try binaurally recording a show you attend. That might be revealing of your home system. But again so many variables. If you’d like to chase solo piano recitals and their reproduction, I am certain you can come very close to matching that ‘live’ sound on your home system. And I honor your pursuit and look forward to hearing your system.
We will chase what we will chase. (The heart wants what the heart wants.)
*if the aforementioned solo acoustic piano is your goal I would suggest, in the broadest sense, electrostatic speakers, a solid state power amp, an airy holographic tube pre amp, balanced power and balanced interconnects. **The BAT VK-500 with BatPak does pianos beautifully!
You're right, it makes no sense to try to replicate live sound in your home.
The infamous Toole/Olive 'circle of confusion' that exists in audio renders it unlikely. For sure some live albums do a good job of recreating that live feeling, but whether it is accurate, who knows?
Your have to have been there, and even then it's down to how well the engineers captured the venue acoustic.
The fact that there are so few reference points tends to steer everything into subjectivity and makes the pursuit of accurate playback extremely confusing.
But the point remains, some familiarity with real instruments will still give you a better starting point than none at all. I might not be able to, or even want to recreate a piano recital at home, or a pub rock band for that matter. But knowing what they sound like doesn't hurt, does it?
Picture the scene, a late night Jazz club. The acoustics are good, the music is unamplified and well known. People are enjoying the intimacy of the performance.
All of them except the unfortunate lone audiophile who is rather surprised and unsettled by the unfamiliar racous sound of the trumpet, saxophone and the drums. So he hurries home back to his soy latte and smooth sounding uber expensive home system which never sounds this harsh.
Kind of explains why there is a pro and domestic audio market, doesn't it?
I know this can sound a bit forward but honestly if you have to ask the above question then your not going to be an audiophile. It's not just about what equipment you need to own or how to get started and what needs to be learned but rather it's part of your being from an early age on (a state of mind) and usually is an obsessive hobby that don't always go away in time. I know audiophiles that have downsized in an attempt to control their compulsive behavior but as soon as they see a piece of gear they love it will rekindle their love for this hobby. Audiophiles are music lovers but the gear is an integral part of the equation. No worries though, people that are involved in other hobbies are just as compulsive.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
