Bloating and slurring indeed! I have insisted that musicians I work with (who perform standing up) wear golf shoes (old school steel spiked ones) or step into clown shoes I've nailed to the floor…the golf shoes tear up the stage…and the clown shoes sound better. Lesson learned. |
I don't read any "facts" in this thread. What we have instead is an extremely positive "review" of a product from someone with no Audiogon background followed by a very small number of people repeatedly chiming in with agreement. That's not facts, but simply 3 or 4 people voicing their opinions. Furthermore, when someone disagrees with this limited viewpoint they are met with condescension.
I am not surprised that people who have purchased Star Sound products are very happy with their decision. Their products appear well made and within the audiophile context they are appropriately priced. I merely suggest that there are other effective ways to support your equipment. |
Correction, it was Bojack who called the OP's comments garbage. Jaxwired said that self delusion is a powerful thing. I think envy is as well. |
1extreme,
As I noted before, the member who made the comment about garbage, Jaxwired, and the member who agreed, Bojack, disappeared rom this thread after their initial attack, apparently unsupported by fact or experience. |
07-12-15: 1extreme
Some of the posts in response to the OP really suck.
When someone posts their impressions that they have personally perceived and they do so in an honest, sincere manner, it is wrong to call what they are experiencing "garbage". He was not miss-representing a technical fact he was stating his personal impressions. That is what this hobby is all about after all.
You who consider yourselves to be "audiophiles" should know better. This audio passion is almost all about personal impressions and preferences. Posters should feel free to post those personal impressions here on this site without derision. Yes and no. If there is not some objective reality to this hobby, these forums have no point. The fact that there is some consensus here against rubber footers is a neutral fact and not grounds for getting testy. |
Textreme,
Yes, this audio endeavor is overwhelmingly subjective in nature and I just assume an open forum such as this will reflect that point. We can only report our personal impression/experiences and recognize there will contrary opinion.
Charles, |
Some of the posts in response to the OP really suck.
When someone posts their impressions that they have personally perceived and they do so in an honest, sincere manner, it is wrong to call what they are experiencing "garbage". He was not miss-representing a technical fact he was stating his personal impressions. That is what this hobby is all about after all.
You who consider yourselves to be "audiophiles" should know better. This audio passion is almost all about personal impressions and preferences. Posters should feel free to post those personal impressions here on this site without derision. |
Thanks 1dad, I have about 15 Herbies tenderfeet , nice to know I'm not totally nuts as I have always thought them to sound good under my CDP, Pre and tuner.
Their real wonder-product is the threaded glider feet to replace speaker spikes .
Unreal improvements underneath both my Meadowlarks and Gallos . |
07-11-15: Tbg
Wolf_garcia, I'm sorry but about ten years ago, I gave up on all soft or rubberized feet as well as all wood feet. They all lack all prat or toe tapping to the music. There was no leading edge on percussion and certainly no trailing edge.
I love the sense of presence of the musicians and singers. With the above, I hear only elevator music. Very well said. I have used Herbie's stuff and it is modestly effective and affordable. I have also use Equarack footer and those are a step up in performance (and price). They do soften things and if your digital front end or rig is more forward and aggressive they can be used as a form of tone control but at a cost. SS has been my go to product since 2008. I am jealous of u guys who getting the Rhythm stands. Me want but cannot afford right now due to blowing my budget on other things.... |
Schubert,
I will say that Herbie's were the exception to the rule, they are the best of the soft compound products in my system (by a wide margin). They were out performed by the Star Sound Audio Points regardless of the components compared. I could confidently recommend Herbie's as an example of a good soft material product. The Apprentice platforms move you into a higher realm of sound quality.
Charles, |
Charles1dad, or anyone else, do you include the Herbie's lab variations on the sorbethane theme in the clearly inferior category ? |
I agree with all the negative comments on sorbethane, but IMO the variation on that theme from Steve at Herbie's Audio Lab work very well for me . |
Roxy54,
I agree that no one is being attacked, we all have our differences based on listening experiences. In my case I've used sorbethane/soft compound products and also Star Sound brass points and then their Apprentice platforms. No comparison in my system, the soft material products were clearly inferior. Two very different tiers of sound quality quite honestly. No doubt however that opinions/outcomes will vary.For me it was an easy distinction to hear.
Charles, |
I wish that relatively inexpensive sorbethane or soft ball materials worked optimally-- my drawer contains multiple sets of retired Audioquest pucks and various peel n' stick strips. They are effective in quieting noisy DVR hard drives, but in high-end audio they contribute almost as many problems as they solve-- bloating and slurring electronics and TT(e.g. older VPI TNT suspensions). Over the years I've migrated away from it in favor of points and roller balls-- all current Stillpoint models and Star Sound SP-1 and Apprentice platforms. I have a five-shelf Star Sound Rhythm rack on order and am hoping for good things from that.
Personally I've experienced better yield per dollar from high-priced footers and platforms than from high-priced cables. The pricey Rhythm rack may put this proposition to the test... The unanswered question is, is a rack just a rack or is a rack worthy of the respect given to a bona fide audio component? Do four sorbethane pucks make a Vibraplane? |
Wolf, Sorbothane does audibly soften things, as, I choose to use them under certain components. Never under speakers, though. Sorry to disagree with you. MrD. |
Wolf,
Damping and draining are 2 different things, and Sorbothane isn't draining to ground as Starsound and some other products do. You may like it, and that is the only thing that matters, but the two technologies work in different ways, and they do not sound the same. |
Sorbothane doesn't soften anything sonically, although I can see the weird connection some make to that…it's in the same category as "vegetables that help you because they're shaped like your organs" like cauliflower looks like your brain…illogical results imagined by others (prat…really?) mean nothing to me, damping/draining unwanted vibration from components does…none of this has any effect on the treble content and in fact may sharpen it since there is less unwanted resonance or phase anomalies introduced by sympathetic vibration. My system puts out what goes in…if it's got brightness I hear it fine, if it doesn't it's certainly not due to the tiny rubber feet under my DAC. Certainly others hear things differently and bolting your gear to maple blocks on some "nirvana specific shelving" while driving spikes into the floor may make you think it's gonna drive your toes somehow, but I've seen too much audio superstition to be fooled into adopting much audio silliness. Some maybe, just not much…. |
No one is attacking him, we're just relaying our own experiences. |
Give Wolf a break guys. He works around live music constantly. Although I am in agreement with you, if he likes the "softer" presentation of sorbothane, so be it. |
Really surprised to hear that you use sorbothane pucks Wolf. Many years ago, I did as well. I also used special wood blocks. Then came the tip toes, and Goldmund cones.
Anyway, since then, I have moved on to Sistrum supports and Audio Points, and I still use the Goldmund cones beneath my DAC. Just for fun 3 weeks ago, I took them out and replaced them with the Cardas wood blocks. What a difference for the worse!Just as Tbg described. The musuc sounded dull and flat. Reconsider and see if you don't hear a very positive difference.
I would say from my experience that Sorbothane is the worst of all. |
Wolf_garcia, I'm sorry but about ten years ago, I gave up on all soft or rubberized feet as well as all wood feet. They all lack all prat or toe tapping to the music. There was no leading edge on percussion and certainly no trailing edge.
I love the sense of presence of the musicians and singers. With the above, I hear only elevator music. |
Sorbothane feet (Vibrapods and other things) under everything including my main speakers (not the sub) obviate the need for a fancy rack in my humble (!) opinion. The amp, DAC, everything gets soft rubber feet…my TT came with large hollow rubber feet that do their job…Stillpoints? Don't tell 'em you can use pods of some sort instead and save some bucks…they'll be crushed. |
For anyone in N. California, there is a four-tier Star Sound stand available on AudiogoN for local pick-up. $550, I think it is. I'm in S. California or I'd snap it up myself. |
Well said Mrdecibel. I am in your camp as well.... |
I like this thread, because, some of us hear differences when tweaking, and some bash it as snake oil. I am on the side, that every tweak I have done, to my systems, and others ( and it has been a lot in over 45 years ), has made a sonic difference. Some differences were small, some were huge, some for the better, some for the worse. But, always, audible. This is going back as far as, carefully applying mortite, to the underside of a turntable platter. Later, applying green paint to the inner and outer edges of cds, and, of course, footers and weights, of all sorts, under, and, on top of, equipment/speakers. The list is endless. The science is less meaningful to me. It is all part of being an audiophile ( and videophile ), because, to the end, we all want to extract more information from our recordings. MrD. |
Easy to A/B platforms ...suggested many times over many years to many reviewers. Tom |
A/B Racks when will that happen???? |
07-08-15: Ebm
Try Symposium rack for best sound. Only after a side by side comparison with a similarly priced Starsound product.... |
Try Symposium rack for best sound. |
Ddraudt, coming on Wednesday? |
Put Rhythm Platforms under my speakers again yesterday and WOW!
they are magical. I had tried the apprentice and they were a big improvement over what I had been using. tried the Apprentice XL and, at twice the mass, they were better, more detail and better image. Going back to the Rhythm's was sheer pleasure. Jaw dropping image! Mesmerizing involvement and intimacy!
I see many more Rhythm racks in my system soon.
Cheers D |
My, How you boys do wander. Its called intra-thread banter Ddraudt. You've never encountered it before? I've been experimenting with 4 different Star Sound Platforms lately and it seems the bigger the better. The "Rhythm" with heavy base, 3 inch cones and large floor discs sounds Magical compared to any other devices tried under my speakers in 40 years. Bigger is indeed better..... |
My, How you boys do wander.
I've been experimenting with 4 different Star Sound Platforms lately and it seems the bigger the better. The "Rhythm" with heavy base, 3 inch cones and large floor discs sounds Magical compared to any other devices tried under my speakers in 40 years. |
06-19-15: Tbg
Agear. Lampizitor and Pitcher! I think our tastes differ. Clearly. BMC would not be my find choice. Norman, you have not had the 7 or GG in your rig although I understand you wanted to hear one. If you want digital to approach your TT, it would be worth a spin. As for Dale, show settings are worthless. |
Agear. Lampizitor and Pitcher! I think our tastes differ. |
06-17-15: Mapman
I was listening to my daughters school orchestra play outdoors yesterday on a lovely summer morning.
Being the audio kook that I am, of course I was evaluating the sound including comparing to an indoor auditorium concert a couple weeks earlier.
I kept thinking this sounds quite nice but perhaps this would be the easiest orchestral concert to reproduce on a home hifi with good results in that the dynamics heard outdoors compared to indoors are reduced significantly.
It re-inforced to me what I already kinda knew, that the venue is perhaps by far the biggest factor in determining how things will sound. Agree 100% |
I was listening to my daughters school orchestra play outdoors yesterday on a lovely summer morning.
Being the audio kook that I am, of course I was evaluating the sound including comparing to an indoor auditorium concert a couple weeks earlier.
I kept thinking this sounds quite nice but perhaps this would be the easiest orchestral concert to reproduce on a home hifi with good results in that the dynamics heard outdoors compared to indoors are reduced significantly.
It re-inforced to me what I already kinda knew, that the venue is perhaps by far the biggest factor in determining how things will sound. |
The room will blow your mind. You are welcome to fly to Charlotte and hear mine if you like.
Why Oregon? Did you grow up there? My younger brother lived in Portland for many years, and my family would vacation on the coast, etc. What version of Scandinavian were your forefathers? Outside of MN (where I lived for over 10 years), there are lots of Scandinavian folk in the pacific northwest...particularly Washington state....but mostly Norwegian (of which I am 25%) |
Agear, I've had LEDE rooms, digitally equalized rooms, Holographic rooms, Room Lens rooms, RPD diffuser rooms, and most recently Zilplex rooms. Since Rick Schultz seems likely to get a Starsound room, I will wait to hear his.
But we are thinking of downsizing to a smaller house with no yard to maintain. That is if we can find one with a usable room for my stereo. Presently I have a 25 x 18 x 11 foot room, which suits me to a T. I don't want to build a house either. We bought a just completed house which we live in now. We have changed the kitchen and master bath in this well architected house. One of the major problems of it is that it in Texas but my wife refuses to leave. I want to go to Oregon. In short nothing seems likely to change soon, unless, pf course, the room blows me away. |
Norman, being the inveterate audio explorer that you are, I recommend taking the plunge with a full blown Starsound room. Why don't you be the first in Texas? It is the most powerful application of their technology IMO. I have had a rotation of all sorts of speakers through here, including Best Buy grade Klipsh floor standers (mated with a vintage Marantz AV receiver and Apple airport express and Home Depot wire), vintage $75 Pioneers, etc and the results have been simply phenomenal. It destroyed my reference rig in a standard living room setting. |
Hi Robert,
Thank you for the detailed reply! |
06-16-15: Charles1dad
Tbg,
I have also heard tales of Agear's room as well, urban myth or reality? 3 years and still no pictures😊.
Charles Now Charles, that was a little passive aggressive of you. Pictures coming soon believe it or not. It has been a long road and filled with delays the majority of which have been out of my control. I did recently receive my Golden Gate dac from Lampizitor and its a stunning piece of digital. Norman, I heard an early prototype of the high fidelity stuff as well as Calloways system which had full loom of HF. Very, very good but I like the Dale Pitcher house sound with his cabling and conditioner and speakers.... |
Agear, I know the feeling well. Watch out for High Fidelity Cables! |
Tbg,
I have also heard tales of Agear's room as well, urban myth or reality? 3 years and still no pictures😊.
Charles |
Hi Norman. Yes, I am using a combination of SP101s and Apprentice stands although Robert and others have been sharing about the backstage and stage line. I would be very intrigued to try the all brass stage stuff under speakers although my wallet does not allow for it at this time.... |
Buconero117, I think your are dealing with vibrations from music and ignoring other problems. There is a substantial problem with EMI and RFI and it is going to be more severe with long speaker wires from one room to another. Then there is also the vibration from the components themselves. Then there is the question of how one controls a system in another room. This is, of course, another addition to EMI or RFI. Finally there is the issue of static charges. I have found that any wire contact with floors, in particular, adversely affects the sound.
Agear, I have heard about your room from Robert and have learned that there will probably be one much closer to me. I assume within your room you are still using Star Sound racks, etc.? |
I've found Isoacoustics stands most effective under my smaller monitors. Also Subdude platform under my OHM floorstanders. Both clean things up and get rid of any muddiness in the sound.
In my home, I only need these on upper levels with suspended plywood floors that freely transmit vibrations.
The same speakers on my ground level with solid concrete foundation underneath (under thin dense carpet and pad) do not need any additional platform tweaks.
So YMMV with any acoustic platforms. There are many good affordable ones when needed. Most likely they will never hurt, unless things in your room happen to be tuned to sound good already without them. That's a possibility as well. There are many ways to tweak as needed. |
Happy to see more real experienced peoples posts and less clowns.
Today I put one of my 5 Apprentice platforms under Magnetic Waveguides from High Fidelity Cables. My integrated amp, 2 speakers, 2 speaker cable waveguides, 3 power cord waveguides all on Star Sound platforms. I also have Star Sound "audio points" under 3 small components.
My next order will be two Apprentice XL platforms and a 2 shelf Rhythm Rack.
The effects of the Star sound stuff is no less than Amazing!! As is the case with Magnetic conduction, the live vibe technology redefines the benchmark. Shockingly more real!!! |
06-10-15: Buconero117
Racks and no racks. If you want better sound, get the rack out of the room, completely. Lost on most audiophiles is that the killer of performance from any component is the acoustic energy flying around the room when the speakers are active. Unless you acoustically isolate all the components, sound will be degraded. A rack, any rack will not do that. If you cannot put the components in another room, you need to put acoustic screens around all sides of the components. Its that simple. I think that applies more so to racks and footers that rely on pure isolation. If the Sistrum technology works the way Starsound says it does, that issue should be more easily defeated. I have dealt with all that "acoustic energy flying around the room" by grounding the walls, equipment, and speakers with Starsound technology. The results are rather impressive. More about that later on another thread.... |
06-09-15: Jaxwired
Self delusion is a powerful thing. In this hobby it is so very important to understand that. So is pride. Clearly, the author of that sweeping statement subconsciously presumes transcendence from said delusion.... |
