Help me complete my stereo system (Harbeth, ClearAudio Concept).

At the risk of offending the Naimsters I think you might be right.

Naim is quite good, but once you acquire the taste for Accuphase or Luxman, you won’t be satisfied with Naim. 

There's a Harbeth / Luxman dealer not too too far, so I'll be able to audition a wide range of Harbeths and Luxman amps as soon as Covid allows.  

Heard the P3ERS with Accuphase ... blown away. 

While my current room is a relatively small sitting room, I want to make sure that my components are as close to final upgrades as possible so if I move in a few years they are still able to meet room demands.  

Next step will be a cartridge upgrade on my Clearaudio TT.  

I remain curious about Naim but I want to keep components to a minimum and it's very important that the onboard phono stage be able to do MM/MC.  In that respect Luxman may have an edge.  

This system will also have a streamer for internet radio, so there will be a fair bit of background music going and news and talk shows,  so I feel the amp has to be a jack of all trades with enough juice to make Harbeth sing no questions asked and not get too hot !

@juleman

agree w @mesch

luxman (higher models)
hegel
pass

all are real winners with harbeth, just luscious sound

next tier imho would be
ayre
musical fidelity
naim

finally, an older but lovely one that is highly synergistic w harbeth is the last primare class a/b model... the i-30

tubes CAN work well with harbeths but they need to be very good tube amps with better than average power delivery and damping factor (always a challenge for typical transformer coupled tube amps) - benefit is even more otherworldly luscious midrange, cost is lack of bass control, bloat or too early roll off

I am thinking you will like the Luxman/Harbeth combo. 

Update :  the P3 ESRs are breaking in nicely.  My Creek amp can get them to decent volume but I need to try something more powerful to make a final call.  As soon as Covid allows I'll audition some Luxman / Harbeth combos.

The P3s are replacing my Totem Arros, and these too have great attributes: fast, detailed, tuneful, decent bass.  This said, it was time to try something else after 15 years and the tweeter has never been to my liking especially on the stuff I listen to.  P3ESRs fit the bill.

Thanks Arafik, I will.

@juleman -- congrats on owning one of the best mini-monitors in the business. They look even better in person compared to the pictures. In my case, it took well over 200 hours for the P3esr's to get to their most optimal level. The bass response will improve considerably after 200+ hours. Keep us posted on which amp you end up with. Good luck!

Hi Everyone,

Received my pair of P3ESR SE in rosewood yesterday.  So here is a quick report :

- These are just first impressions :

 1) My Creek Evo 50A can drive them but it will not make them sing.  They like power.  Alan Shaw is right they are not a hard pairing, they will play nicely, but if you pair a weaker/cheaper amp you won't get the full performance these speakers can deliver.  

2)  They sound a bit congested, the soundstage is not stable at this point, the bass response is changing right in the middle of a tune. I attribute all that to the fact that they need another 175 hours to break in.

3) The details, at least the ones that are showing up now, are lush, correct, detailed but non fatiguing, monitor-like but not sterile. 

4) They can handle power and provide sufficient volume to fill my space (11 X 14 X 9) with a clean, detailed, lush sound.  They will do this even more effortlessly and better with a class leading amp.

5)  As everybody knows, the mid-range is amazing and voices (I let my wife do the honours and she picked Joni) are life-like with lots of natural detail... some wet eyes followed...

6)  They love to be placed along the long wall of the room, wow ! ... but I need a way to sit in front of the fireplace to be in the sweet spot.

7) They are amazing for near field listening.

8)  These little speakers are worth the investment in better stands and cables. Integrated amps will be auditioned soon.

Best to everyone

The Unision S6 is also Class A.

These are all great suggestions (Unison Research, CJ, Luxman 550).  At this time, I have to say that the 550 is very enticing (pure Class A).  

This said, I don't understand the hangup over 505, the build / layout look very similar to the other Class A/B amps in Luxman lineup, damping factor and voltage are in the same ballpark, until you get to the 509.  

@fjn04 

 There was a post I read that says the magic starts at 507. I can't comment on that, but would not discount the 550.

I was the one who made that comment, and realized that I should have included the 550 in the 'where the magic starts' boundary. I agree that the 550 is significantly better than the 505.

@juleman 
I provide concierge service to CJ and can comment on CJ and Harbeth as well as Unison Research S6. Both great amps and options for you.
I have many clients pairing CJ and Harbeth. It is a stunning combination and one I never get tired of hearing.  The Classic 62 and Classic 62SE are the primary amps that I sell that are matched with Harbeth, although recently 2 people went with the CAV 45S2.  The CAV 45S2 is basically the Classic 62 with a volume control and 3 inputs.  I use one as my daily amp when in the office and can listen to it all day long.  I added Sophia Elecrtric EL 34s which took the performance to an entirely new level. Jeff Dorgay at TONE recently did a review of it.
The Unison Research S6 is another sleeper. It sounds wonderful...musical, detailed, engaging.  However, it is 35 watts compared to the CJ 60 means you need to select your speakers correctly. But, it also mates well with Harbeth.
Good luck.

...there is the 2.5-3.0 db difference between the 3's and 7's, but again, the 550 is very competent powering the latter. 

I'm quite content with my 550 AX II and Compact 7's. I'm running a Kuzma table, Ref 313 arm, and EMT cart direct in to the very competent Lux phono section. There was a post I read that says the magic starts at 507. I can't comment on that, but would not discount the 550. I was concerned about lack of power, but that has not been an issue at all. I am in a medium size room...23 X 12 X 8 ft ceiling. 

I agree that the Luxman sound is supremely balanced, but pipe and slippers it ain’t. Not even by a long shot. I don’t know which Luxman model you’re looking at, but the 505 does not use the in-house transformer, and it shows. If you have a choice listen to 550 or higher models. 

Luxman has great MM/MC onboard phono, the Supernait is only MM and I want to keep boxes to a minimum.  Also, from the reviews, I think the Luxman may have more of the signature sound I'm looking for (balanced), call it pipe and slippers if you want.  

 I'm thinking that I should look a bit more into the future.  

The amp will have to be a good match for P3ESR for now but it should also be able to power larger Harbeths down the line to feed a bigger room (M30 or HL5).

In the meantime, the turntable can be upgraded to a moving coil for example.  Considering how the vinyl will stack up in 3 to 5 years, I may go up the Clearaudio chain and upgrade the table too.  

Luxman is back on the list.  Will audition vs Naim Supernait.  

With a sub I can imagine so.  

I have my P3ESRs in a fairly small room (12 X 12 approximately), with a fairly large sub and you'd be surprised how well they can do with Daft Punk or Deadmau5.

My mistake.  

The point about this review is that it fails to capture what the P3Esr are really about.  To me the P3s is a well designed speaker that does what it does with class leading attributes.  It's a set of speakers to which you can throw serious amplification at and it won't be outclassed.  This said they won't do Metallica or Daft Punk as well as other speakers out there, but in the right space with the right gear they can do wonders with a very wide range of music.  For my requirements, in my room, if they can do right by Miles, Herbie and Trane then bring on the pipe and slippers.  

Was reading Darko's review of the P3ESR SE. He should have listened with his ears instead of his eyes and with another product than Heed Class D...

Heed doesn't have any class D amplifiers. The Heed Obelisk he used is AB and I agree with him that it is a warm sounding amp.

I have heard the Synthesis gear Larry recommends with Harbeth also at Deja Vu and it's an excellent combo. And definitely call Vu I will attest he gives great advice and won't try to sell you on anything that's not right for your system.

i agree that for all strengths and well meaning reviews john darko is way too influenced by the way components are styled - and i believe it affects how he perceives the sound when he thinks something looks especially cool via his aesthetic sense

Was reading Darko's review of the P3ESR SE. He should have listened with his ears instead of his eyes and with another product than Heed Class D...  

Thanks for all the recommendations, they are all going on the list for further consideration.  An all in one solution for the phono stage and headphones is very appealing.

Curious about Unison Research as well.  

Lots of options that need direct experience with, which Covid conditions prevents somewhat for now. Using the time to read up  on components.  

 

The Harbeths sound great with tube gear. I use tube gear with my P3s. This Rogue Cronus Magnum integrated has all the features that you need. My friend uses Rogue tube gear with his P3s. BTW, you will need a separate phono preamp with the Conrad-Johnson!
http://rogueaudio.com/Products_Cronus_Magnum.htm

For tube amps, I recommend looking into integrated amps from Synthesis (Italian).  They make integrated amps with very good DACs and phono stages built into the amp.  I have heard the P3 with their Roma 96 integrated (25 wpc) and this is a very nice combination.  The larger, and more expensive, integrated amps, such as the A40 and A100 should be even better with the P3's.

If you contact Vu, at Deja Vu Audio, he can offer some advice on appropriate tube amps.  He sells Synthesis and Conrad Johnson.

This amp speaker pairing business will take a bit of time to sort out, so the P3s will be mated to my Creek Evo 50A for the time being.  My goal is to get off the merry go round without hopping on ! Therefore, I'll be looking for an amp that gives justice to the P3s for many many years to come.  I get the feeling this will be in the $ 3,5K plus category.   

I've always been attracted to the Conrad Johnson CAV series of integrated amps.  

Love this type of minimalist-high-quality-fair-price product. Anyone with real world experience driving P3ESRs with any of the CAV C-Js is welcome to try to convince me to go in that direction. 

I pulled the trigger on a pair of P3esr Special Editions in roeswood represented as Mint. The total cost including shipping is more than 60%  lower that the cost of the XD version currently available.

As much as I'm willing to spring extra dollars for gear where I feel the price justified, I think the future classic of the P3ESR will likely be the base model or the 40th, and those can be found (with some patience) for a decent price still.  

Deja Vu Audio has the full line of Harbeth and they sell ClearAudio turntables.  Where they depart from the advice given above is that they exclusively deal in tube amplifiers.  I have heard all of the Harbeth lineup there, and I like the P3's more than the 7's.  The P3's sound quite good with even lower powered tube gear, so I would not automatically scratch tube gear off the list.  Deja Vu has a Parasound Halo amp in the store to do demonstrations against their various tube amplifier offerings, and that is always an entertaining demonstration (typically, even a cheap tube amp will sound significantly better).  

The rogue Sphinx v3 would drive those harbeths nicely. It has both a great mc/mm phono stage built in, as well as a very good headphone amp. Hybrid tube/class d. A herb Reichert favorite. $1500 bucks, but I can get one cheaper, but I cannot tell 😁
Here is Herb’s review:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/rogue-sphinx-v3-integrated-amplifier

Add a musical fidelity v90 dac $299, if you can still find one, and then a Grace Digital link internet radio/streamer with digital and analog out $159 on sale. Two great pieces. All the above for under $2k.

Acoustic sounds sells the harbeth p3esr, they are good to deal with. The cherry and the rosewood are in stock.

Great find. Of all the Harbeths I've owned I thought the Rosewood finish were the nicest looking. Enjoy them!

Sweet! I hope you enjoy yours as much as I have mine.

I've found a MINT pair of the Special Editions in Rosewood.  

You might try Gig Harbor Audio.  They are a Harbeth dealer near Seattle.  

I contacted deja vu. They will try to track down P3ESr standard version in other colors (they had black which is already available closer to home but those would be an eye sore in my main living room).  

Thanks Yogiboy, I will.

Give this place a shot!
http://www.dejavu-audio.com/harbeth-speakers-p3esr.html

Still trying to track down a set of P3Esr.

Called a dealer today, he was out of P3s, including XDs. He said that supply is scarce and .... that he didn’t expect to sell many XD versions at these new inflated prices !

Alan Shaw: Bring back the classic P3ESR in other colors than Black please !!

PPS : You guys have been really helpful despite the P3 /Amp match topic having been beaten to death : - )

PS.  I suspect the PRAT element found in Naim gear could give the kick in the pants I felt the C7s needed when I auditioned with Accuphase Integrated.

After some additional research this afternoon I dropped the Luxman 505 from the list, I can't see how this betters the Yamaha enough to justify the huge price difference (I suspect Lux are much more affordable in Japan).  The Yamaha is extremely well designed inside. It's a big component with a big 1970s vibe.
 
Did further research on NAIM's product line as well, and the Nait XS3 appears to fit the bill with a price in the right range with excellent phono and headphone stages to boot.  

Also added Belles Aria (it was on the list a while ago), recommendations fuse on the match with P3s, there is also a dealer in my neck of the woods.  

Some bad news though:  I can't seem to track down a new pair of the standard P3ESRs (except in black). Some standard C7s are still available at only a $200.00 dollar difference to the P3ESR XD, making them extremely enticing.  Decisions, decisions.  

Best way to solve this will be to audition some kit (I tracked down a Naim dealer with Harbeth product not too far away).

Another vote for Belles Aria integrtaed with MM phono.

I drove my C7s with a Belles Soloist 1 and it was great. Harbeths sometimes need some real current to get them to move some air...;-)

I have an Aria Signature Integrated today.

@juleman -- which Luxman model are you looking at? IMO, their entry level integrated amp (505, 550) is not that great of a value for the money. The real Luxman magic happens at 507, 509, 590 level. Anything below that, you’re better off with Yamaha or Naim. I ran my P3esr’s with Naim Unitiqute for some time. Obviously, it lacked in power but the synergy was quite good. I’m sure the higher level Naim models like Super Nait will be a very good match. Good luck!