Anytime you can keep signals separate it's usually a good things. The signals are different on each run and it's night to keep them away from each other if you can. Higher resolution systems will shows the differences most of the time.
Ctsooner Not sure where you got this information, but if you are biwiring using only one amp, the signal is identical on both cables. |
Funny thing, my Dunlavy speakers have bi-wire terminals. If he didn't believe in them why did he put them on his speakers?
Rja Because some marketing types told him audiophiles demand it. |
Funny thing, my Dunlavy speakers have bi-wire terminals. If he didn't believe in them why did he put them on his speakers? |
When one's system reaches a certain level of transparency, running your speakers bi-wired is worthwhile. This means not only are your components compatible with each other, EMI/RF is not a major problem, system cabling is off the floor and neither coiled nor bundled, racking and support are sturdy, contacts are clean, clean AC power is available, the room isn't plagued with standing waves anymore, and lots of other little things that have a bigger impact collectively have already been addressed. Until then, you will probably be disappointed with the return for bi-wiring.
I have been bi-wiring for 25 years after hearing how much better everything sounded. I economized on speaker cable by setting my amps back-to-back with the speaker terminals and bought the best possible wire in the shortest possible lengths. I started with Cardas Hexseries that ran about $2500 for 2 1/2 meter pairs. These ran between Atma_sphere 100w OTLs and a pair of Snell B-types. They end in Rhodium plated spade lugs. The Binding posts on the speakers and amps had been upgraded to Edison Price. The system had very good analog sources over the years and sounded outstanding to me all that time, But, I could never hear the difference when I experimented with things like running only one speaker cable, until after I had retired and could only afford relatively cheap tweeks and changes to the system. It was only after I had cleaned up some of the nasties I listed above that the system became transparent enough to show that bi-wiring is best.
I retired the Cardas cables two years ago in favor of a really superb 1m biwire set of flat solid silver ribbon biwire cables from Ridge Street Audio. These are designed to maximize sound purity through simplicity in design. They are designed so that the bass leg is significantly larger than the one for the mids and highs.
Unfortunately, due to a recent speaker upgrade - I retired the Snells this Winter with a pair of Genesis 6.1. The new speakers are meant to be run full-range from a single set of binding posts. The best sound is said by the manufacturer to come from letting the speaker's electronics split the highs from the speaker cable rather than running an RCA or balanced interconnect. So, I have now put another superb set of cables on the back shelf. |
I'm with Z on that one. It usually is keeping the skin effect off the lower end cables and many other things that cables deal with. I was only able to afford a pair of AQ Castle Rock bi wired, but I've heard the same speakers I own with TWO separate runs of the same cable in the same system and HOLY COW is there a difference. It wasn't slight to me either. Anytime you can keep signals separate it's usually a good things. The signals are different on each run and it's night to keep them away from each other if you can. Higher resolution systems will shows the differences most of the time. |
My 25 yr old Spendor S100's are configured for TRI-wiring and I've been doing so for over a decade! I recall hearing a difference for the better when I 1st went 'tri' over a decade ago but haven't felt the need to experiment in quite some time. Honestly, I'm one of those audiophiles that 'plateaued' a while ago. To me, my rig sounds glorious, so now I concentrate on spending my money on the music. |
"03-19-15: Polk432
I have bi-wired every speaker that I've owned that could be bi-wired, but never heard any difference in sound. Bi- amplifying is the only way I heard a difference. Just try it both ways and see (hear) what you like best."
I do hear the difference in biwiring most of the time, and now that I use just Vandersteens, its 100% of the time. Its a big difference. But if you don't hear the difference, why waste the extra money on getting biwire cables? |
In terms of the initial question, I have not noticed that there are less biwire speakers, but that cable companies are offering less internally biwired cables in favor of double runs or jumpers, though many cables are easy to reterminate to be internally biwired. so maybe internally biwired cables are currently out of favor... |
For short distances within home audio applications and audio-signal it doesn't matter. I used single wire-run threaded through both upper and lower binding posts instead of jumper, now I have bulk Kimber 4tc where 3x3 wires are hooked up to bottom binding posts and 2x2 wires hooked up at upper binding posts and it doesn't matter simply due to very small degree of magnitude to be somehow noticable.
Not sure if I hear any difference between types of connection when length of speaker wire is increased by 10x per each speaker. |
I have bi-wired every speaker that I've owned that could be bi-wired, but never heard any difference in sound. Bi- amplifying is the only way I heard a difference. Just try it both ways and see (hear) what you like best. |
IMO some speakers do benefit from bi wiring and some to a lesser degree. I've been trying to find a 1 meter pair of top of the line bi-wire cables for my tube mono-block amps. They are just too hard to find in a 1 meter length terminated. I'm puzzled on that front. I simply don't like my system with the jumpers in place. I've tried inexpensive to expensive jumpers and my system seems to have a restrictive soundstage vs bi wiring my system with the same type wire. Even when I try different wiring on the woofer and the 40" Ribbon I get different sound characteristics. My speakers are Apogee Centaur Majors and my Mono-blocks are Lang M70 push pull parallel amps with a Dynaco Lineage but with 4 EL34's and a 6SL7 and 6SN7 octal front end. |
I'll biwire if my cables are setup for it but can't claim I hear any difference.
Just remember if you use a jumper at the speaker terminals and measure resistance with an ohm meter you find a short. If you remove the jumpers and run biwire cable from a single set of binding posts at the amp end, you will still measure a short at the speaker terminals. Electrically the two points are identical either with jumpers or with biwire cables. It makes me wonder what sonic difference the extra wire could make. |
I"m with Z on this one. Every designer is different. My Proacs all sounded better bi wired, but ONLY when using the same wire for all the runs. My new Vandersteen's have to be bi wired. He's designed them that way and he'll even tell you that you are better off running less expensive cable to bi wire than get an expensive single cable for one connection.
This is one of those times that it makes sense to find a dealer you trust and who knows your system do you can listen to the difference in their store or they can loan you cables for you to try. |
I don't get your post. You're using biwire speaker cables in your own system. What's your opinion on the matter? Do you hear any differences? |
I had a conversation with John Dunlavy a few years ago on this very topic. His position was that the only way a second set of cables would be of any value is if they had the exact electrical characteristics as the first. Since this is hard if not impossible to achieve, it would be much better to spend the extra money on better first run cables. Even then he was very skeptical about high price exotic cables that made claims that could not be empirically measured. |
Audiophiles are a fickle bunch, things become popular, then lose popularity, then cycle back around again. I've biwried, and not biwired, they both work.
The biwire does sound good, but for me, at this point in time, I'm having more success running a higher quality (re: more expensive) single wire run with a quality jumper. I wish I could afford to biwire with the cables I have, but sadly, I can't. |
Whether or not biwire has any value is debated. Some believe it only has value if two pairs of cables are used, and that internal biwire cables are useless. I did read an interview long ago with a very well known speaker designer who said it was easier to design his speakers for biwire than to explain why it was useless to do so... |
I don't know, but I am bi-wiring my Legacy Focus SE's with two pairs of stereo speaker cables (took the jumpers out) and it sounds great (smoother and tighter in the bass). I think it's a bit more musical as well.
The interesting thing is that the single-crystal cryo-treated copper wire and dielectric material for each pair is the same, but the pair going to the mids and highs is a lighter gauge and costs about half the price of the pair feeding the woofer sections. I'm using 6' runs. |
