Harbeth 30.1 or 40.1
well ..since the M40 is local why not ask them to demo for you ? you can bring your amp there and maybe their room is similar to yours . Or even if Room smaller You can get the feeling if the bass too much or you can live with it !Me own the C7 and now M30 ,my room is small just bout 10x11 and listen average Level in near field ...sound is beautiful and tight 👍 |
mapman, 'In any case choosing speakers based on Sound on a YouTube video alone is very risky business IMHO.' I'd second that. Throwing an extra transducer between yourself and the recording of the original seems risky at best. Unless there is a some way to record demos to play back on YouTube which give a close representation of the sound heard in the room. I've seen production values on YouTube (microphones and cameras) look quite impressive, but are they accurate? It would be great if it was possible and then we could all play them back via a neutral pair of headphones (or monitors) if we wanted to etc. Perhaps someone can answer that? |
You'll always be able to find a used pair of 30.1's or 30.2's, but 40.1's come available only a few times a year... and local availability is a huge plus as you avoid shipping costs. If you get the 30.1's you'll likely be content, but also always second guessing how much better your sound could have been had you bought the Harbeth flagship model 40.1. Low to medium volume jazz and vocals mimics my listening habits and I've yet to own another speaker that comes close performance wise to the 40.1's, including stints with Dynaudio Confidence C2's, C4's, Daedalus Ulysses and Harbeth SHL5's with a REL sub. Also consider many giving their opinions to your post have never owned 40.1's... or if they did, maybe their listening habits/musical tastes don't mirror yours. |
There's always socks, foam, etc. that you could stuff in the ports in a pinch. But I really don't think they'll overload, so long as you don't have them stuck in the corners. That said, if you like the Spatials and liked the big Maggies on audition, no box speaker, however good, and the Harbeths are among the best, can do some things a planar/open baffle speaker. On the other hand, they can do some things better. You'll get a frisson from the 40.1's, but it won't necessarily be exactly the same as one from and 3.7i or a 20.7. |
RE: the Harbeths... I’m trying them with a "lowly" ATI AT6012 SS amp right now, which is specifically designed for my Linkwitz Orions. And... as you might have guessed (if you know Harbeths)... the AT6012 is making them sound very much like the YouTube videos I referenced - greater tranparency, and clarity, with more controlled bass and mids. Still have the great Harbeth rich mids, but with greater detail and clarity, and less boomy base. Though - I would note... I think the room treatments in those videos do a lot to achieve the sound you hear in those videos. So... it would seem... you can achieve the great sound in those YouTube videos... IF... you find the right SS amp to drive and control the Harbeths. My AR150SE may ultimately produce much the same sound (after full burn-in)... we’ll see. But, if you don’t want to have to wait for the burn in of a tube amp - I think you’ll be surprised at the great sound they can produce with the right SS amps. I’m guessing, the Hegels, the ATI’s, and the McIntosh MA252 or MA352 can all do that - just so long as the amp has a very "neutral" sound and lots of current and damping to clear up the bass and mids. And... I’m sure... the Maggies with the right amps can produce as impressive a sound. I’ve got the Peter Gunn modded Maggie 1.6 Magnestands, which have a superb sound also - may have a bit more clarity and soundstage than the Harbeths. Despite the fact the Magnestands have much better bass and dynamics than the stock Maggies - the Harbeths may still best them in those areas, which when added to the rich mids of the Harbeths, may give the edge to the Harbeths - close, hard to say. |
Thank you every one. I missed that there is a page 2 so only see the comments now. as suggested, I decided to have an audition first, but then I found out the seller is quite far away from me. So, an audition is not preferred. Eventually, I gave an offer and it is accepted. So now, the fight between my left and right brain is done. My emotion won. =) I will use with the Almorro for a while, until I sold my other gears. |
@ pdreher Agreed - My experiences with the 30.1’s and the 40.2’s are similar to yours - especially with a good SS amp that brings out the best in the Harbeths. I did consider the SHL5+ with the Rel subs - but, decided the 30.1’s or 40.2’s with the Hegel H590 Integrated SS amp - sounds better to me - much richer, organic sound, while having a very clear, detailed and transparent sound brought out by the SS amp. Though, if I were going to use a lesser SS amp or tube amp... I’d prolly... prefer the SHL5+. |
I finally received the 40.1 yesterday and had a brief session. The first impression is that, compared to the Spatial Audio X5, it has much more bass, including mid bass, despite that the X5 has an active subwoofer! The X5 sounds a bit more live like, probably because of the open baffle design. The X5 also sounds brighter with more detail. It is both good and bad. For some recordings, it can sound fatiguing. The Harbeth is more warm, and does not sound harsh for those records that sound a bit harsh on the X5. There are always trade offs. Back to the amp, the Almarro can drive it to my normal listening level without problem. The volume knob is between 10-11 o’clock position. Even my 300B amp can drive it no problem. As you know, I never know what I missed until I try it. But I don’t need louder, I am looking for better sound. I think people say the bass will be improved with an amp with more power? What about adding a preamp? My 300B is custom built. The schematic is originally a power amp, and I ask the builder to add two volume knobs. So, if I use it what it originally design as, I can add a preamp. Which way do you think will give better music? Buying the 60W, hybrid, McIntosh MA252, or add a Supratek/Coincident preamp to my 300B? |
@jtcf thanks. Yes, I am not planning to buy it immediately, but be prepared when something comes up in the used market. Actually, the weakest link in my system now is the DAC, if I judge by the price. I am using a Audio-gd NFB-3 which is an entry level DAC bought 8 yrs ago. I originally plan to upgrade that first. I bought a Topping dx7 pro, it is too bright for the X5 and the Bluetooth keeps dropping so I returned it. Maybe it will match well with the Harbeth to bring some sparkles. My Audio-gd now is a very smooth DAC. |
@arturgorniak is the extreme case of someone who believes 40 series Harbeths need serious power. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/harbeth-40-2-40th-anniversary-with-simaudio-mono-blocks At the other extreme, I've read posts from people driving them with tube amps well under 50 W. But I think you are reporting the lowest. For a real comparison/contrast, I think you need to aim for 100 or 150W SS. |
@twoleftears I downloaded an app and finally got the number on how loud I listen to. My max volume is around 90dB. Average can get up to 85dB. There is also a weighted average which I don’t really know what’s the difference, but it is much lower at 78dB. I am at about 3.5-4 m away. I got a suggestion from someone that, I should leave about 20dB head room, ie. 100dB at 3.5m. Then I plug into a calculator in a web site, it turns out the following: 60W -> 94.95 dB 80W -> 96.2 dB 100W -> 97.17 dB 120W -> 97.97 dB 150W -> 98.93 dB So, it seems your suggestion of 100-150W is spot on. Then, it seems the only option is SS. I am a tube guy, have switch to tube amps 8 years ago and never look back. I am a bit hesitant to go back to SS gear. So, my first decision need to be made is, do I get 60-80W tube amp, or 100-150W SS amp. i read comments both ways. Some say he try SS and don’t like it, then get a McIntosh 275 and very happy. Some say he move to Luxman and Accuphase and they are as good as tube. |
@gte357s Yes, I agree it's tremendously confusing. There have been reports of really excellent performance with Vinnie Rossi products, that aren't that powerful and have a tube front end. Likewise, many swear by the combination of the LFD NCSE which is only 70W in its most powerful incarnation. big_greg just posted above, and I also know of someone very happily driving them with a Linear Tube Audio LTA Z40 integrated, which is under 50W. So there's a real diversity of opinion; I can't think of an example where there's more diversity, actually. If you like the sound you're getting, perhaps there's no need to change. My suggestion was to perhaps try to borrow a powerful SS amp just to see what difference it made (particular in the bass region). On the other hand, tube watts do tend to be more powerful than ss watts, so perhaps try and borrow a 75W push-pull or ultralinear tube amp. If you go on the Harbeth User Group website, you'll find a thread with owners posting lists of amps they've used. Shaw has some pretty extreme views on amps, but it's very enlightening to see the range of models people are listing. |
If you choose to go with a solid state amp, the Plinius SA 102 gave me the most satisfaction of the solid state amps I tried with my 40.1's. There's one recently listed (Listing ID: lisa4409) at a reasonable price that was recently recapped. I still prefer tubes with my 40.1's (Music Reference RM9 MK2, McIntosh MC275 MKV, VAC 70/70)... but the Plinius was still good... just not a s good as the aforementioned tube amps. If you are a tube guy as you say, you won't be satisfied with SS,IMO. |
I have had very interesting results with different amps and my M40.3's. My room (22x24x9) is terrible with bass under 40hz....but also is a bit active around 100hz..so it is quite tricky to get a good balance. By far the best amp has been my current Parasound JC5. The M40.3's really take advantage of high power SS amps with strong damping factor. I ran MC275's strapped mono for a couple weeks. Midrange was sublime, but bass and any lower control was totally absent. MC601 monoblocks before that which sounded great, but just didn't have the bass control that the JC5 has. I have never owned a speaker that was more sensitive to different amplifiers. Those who say all amps sound the same are delusional, IMO. |
@snackeyp Interested to know if you still own the Harbeth M40.2 Anniversary. I'm debating on this speaker or 40.1. My preference is a warm, smooth sound with beautiful midrange. I've loved my P3ESRs (not the Anniversary or XD version) for 10+ years.
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