Greatest Rock Drummers


Given the subject line many names come to mind such as  Ginger Baker, Keith Moon, Phil Collins and Carl Palmer but, is Neil Peart the greatest rock drummer of all time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSToKcbWz1k
128x128falconquest
lowrider!
Gong, New York Gong, Daevid Allen's Gong, Pierre Moerlen's Gong,Planet Gong,...so many to choose from. For Pierre Moerlen's Gong, 'Shamal' is a fun listen. Daevid Allen's last record 'I See You' (2014) has some great tracks and Orlando Allen does a fine job on drums and percussion. I'm interested in seeing what becomes of these musicians now that Daevid Allen is no longer of this world.
OK, I suspect some will beat me up adding this:

I don’t consider him a "rock drummer", but in my opinion the "greatest rock percussionist" is Ringo Starr.

I would consider John Bonham the "greatest rock drummer", was lucky to see him with Led Zeppelin, one of the best rock concerts I attended.
When the "chops" players and fans of that style playing starting badmouthing Ringo for his lack of technique, one of his fiercest defendants was a very technically accomplished player---Greg Bissonette, drummer in the Maynard Ferguson Big Band. Greg is currently touring with Ringo! I can’t be bothered making the case for Ringo’s abilities; either you get it, or you don’t.
Ian Pace stated that Ringo Starr was his favorite drummer while he was learning to play (or something similar). He mentioned that Ringo was a swinging drummer like no other. I've always admired Ringo Starr for his musicality, his unpredictability and as a reliable time keeper (which is under-estimated). I'm just not a big Beatles or Stones guy. However, Charlie Watts is also an excellent drummer. So who's the greatest rock drummer, the one you like the most.
There are chops.

There is musicality (contribution to the song)

There is time keeping.

Chad Smith has all three. Porcaro, Keltner, Bonham and many greats had all three. Ringo had two but he was exceptionally good at two. Most drummers are at most exceptional at two out of three. It is rare to have all three in balance and even rarer to be exceptional at all three.

The drummers that get the gig tend to be good at musicality and time keeping - chops is not in high demand. Ringo is proof that musicality and time keeping is more important than chops! Ringo doesn’t seem to even count to get things right he just listens and learns - an intuitive thing - he plays by feel and what he did worked fir the Beatles. Steve Ferrone is another great player but he will count carefully and can read music and can adapt his style. Session musicians often are skilled at adapting their style of playing which is altogether a whole other level of musicality!!!

Perfectly put, shadorne. Here’s a little story illustrating a related point:

I was hired for a session, the recording of a single song for the soundtrack of a low-budget movie. I had worked with the producer before, so he knew what he was getting. The song was a simple Pop/Rock thing, the focus on the vocal and lyric (sung by a Grandson of one of The Lennon Sisters!), and I played what I considered appropriate. The producer kept asking me to play more like Keith Moon, even instructing me where he wanted "fills". I said "That would walk all over the vocal". He said "Oh, I don’t care about that". !!!!!

I put in a little more (as much as I could bring myself to), but it wasn’t enough for him. So he ended up doing a take with himself on drums (he has been a pro drummer), and submitted that take to the movie’s director, who rejected the track! A take with my playing was submitted, and approved. Point made.

bdp24, I've got a fever and the only cure is more cow bell! (teehee) I believe that those in a soundtrack situation could benefit from what Broadway musical pit drummers are doing. Pit drummers need to stay four or more measures ahead of the orchestra, conductor and what's taking place on stage. They get too little credit.
Ringo was the first rock drummer who turned the skins into a musical instrument. No one else would have come up with the concept of placing towels on the drums to get a soft muffled sound on Come Together. Listen to the perfect fills in Day In The Life. Listen to the very spare drumming on Penny Lane. Paul was a very good (but not the best) bassist, John was an average, if that, musician. George a reasonably good but not great guitarist. But they were among the best stylists on their respective instruments in rock history.
When I listen to music, I don’t want to listen to anyone’s technical chops. I want all musicians to serve the song---the musical destination of the imagination and the heart. When that requires technical skill--less than 20 percent of the time-- only then do I want to "hear" technical skill .
Note--Jim Keltner, Levon Helm and the like understood that.
Although I was a Who fan--Keith was often too predictable and created drum space for himself in songs whether the song called for excessive drumming or not. On the other hand, he was a very impactful and spectacular drummer on others (e.g. Baba O’Riley).
Ringo was simply virtually always tasteful and tuneful and often quite innovative.
Currently listening to Stewart Copeland's drumming on Outlandos D'Amour, so, yeah, Stewart Copeland. 

You could talk about the fact that he is a scientist of rhythm, or his absolute discipline and precision, but there is a uniqueness to his drumming that is hard to describe without missing the mark wide. Its drive, an absolutely coupled connection between each strike of the snare, the rests played around unbelievable syncopated fills. 

Bias filter, I actually don't like the Police very much as a band, but I listen to them  as some great artists who accompanied Stewart Copeland on drums. 


Ringo was
the best drummer for The Beatles, Keith Moon the best for The Who (though Zak Starkey, Ringo’s kid, is doing a fantastic job in The Who now. I saw Keith with The Who live twice, and he was a possessed madman. I mean that literally).


Seeing Zak for with The Who a few years ago, I just blurted out to my son, 'he's better than Moon'. And he is.
I've seen both incarnations of the band and Keith, of course, was part of the band's legendary synergy (how much of that rested on Entwhistle?), but go back to any bootleg of a pedestrian Who show post '68 and if you're listening critically, Keith could be rather hit or miss. Good shows, bad shows, time & place, Zak is consistently good and in charge. He's a super talented, largely unsung, drummer.
How about Terry Bozio? Listen to both Frank Zappa and the son's album, "Zappa Plays Zappa". Between Steve Vai, Terry and other FZ alumni, the drums really carry a lot of the songs. One example of Terry's prowess is the written for Jack Bruce to play song, Apostrophe, as well as that album and it's predecessor, "Overnight Sensation".
My favorites, rock, jazz players who became rock drummers, and jazz (most are still alive):
Billy Cobham
Ginger Baker
John Bonham
Jack DeJohnette
Steve Gadd (great session drummer)
Mitch Mitchell (he really help make the Experience what it was)
Keith Moon
Airto Moreira (soft touch)
Joe Morello (I grew with him in Wilton, CT - worked with Dave Brubeck, unfortunately, lost his hearing)
Antonio Sánchez
Narada Michael Walden
Paul Wertico
Tony Williams
-Gerry

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As a drummer myself, it's hard to pick one as the best because of the different styles of drumming and music. The list is a good start. I would like to add Dave Weckl ( listen to the Convergence cd ) and Vinnie Colaiuto. These are Jazz drummers, although VC did play on Jeff Beck's Live from Ronnie Scott's and Stings new cd. There is a lot out there to enjoy.
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It looks as though many aren't shying away from mentioning jazz drummers. My mention, Joey Baron.
+1 Stewart Copeland often plays on top or ahead of the beat and has a tendency to push the tempo. He gives an urgency and energy to his playing that few drummers convey. Good skill at the one drop as well as jazz (Murder by Numbers)!

The Police Certifiable concert is one of the most enjoyable demonstrations of percussion - no silly drum solo - just great playing that compliments and elevates the songs to whole other level. As enjoyable as Neil Peart on Xanadu live on the Exit Stage Left DVD!

Sting is super talented but rather BORING without Stewart.

Stewart was the true creative somewhat crazy talent behind The Police and I don’t think Sting’s great song writing would have been recognized if not for Stewart’s inventive playing.
I've met Bernard Purdie and he is the nicest unassuming guy.   Had dinner with him with another drummer I work with, Geoff Daking from the Blues Magoos (Geoff makes pro audio gear).  I am surprised no one has mentioned Jeff Porcaro- did I miss it?  He made famous one of Purdies unique beats, the "purdie shuffle" or "half time shuffle groove".  Jeff used it on Toto's "Roseanna".    

transaudio (and anyone else interested), there is an instructional video wherein Jeff Porcaro sits at a drumkit, explaining and displaying how he came up with his part in "Roseanna". Brilliant! Jeff's playing in Boz Scaggs' "Lido Shuffle" is legendary. A great, great drummer. Too bad about Toto though ;-).
@jafant


+1 Stan Lynch

Very tasty drumming with a great groove. As a supporting vocalist he was fantastic too. It took TWO musicians to replace him - Steve Ferrone and Scott Thurston - both tremendously talented musicians themselves.
Right On! shadorne-

he had real chemistry w/ Ron Blair and Howie Epstein in those early days.
Happy Listening!
Sticking with the OP topic of ROCK drummers, as there are a lot of jazz drummers being mentioned. Should be another thread IMO.

Year in year out Neil Peart has been the consistent performer, always trying to improve his technique and creating new sounds. If the R40 Tour was the last time we see him perform live then for sure he went out at the utmost top of his game. For the past 10 years he was getting better and better. Clearly he is thee rock drummer of choice.

Gavin Harrison is probably my #2 rock drummer. Others for me
Mike Portnoy, Marco Minnemann, Jaki Liebezeit, Barriemore Barlow, Steve Smith, Ian Mosley, Bill Bruford.....
Stan Lynch was perfect for Petty, a real fine "song-player" drummer---very musical. By the way, after Lynch left Petty (for very understandable reasons), he took Don Henley's advice to him and pursued a career as a songwriter, having a couple of hits by Country artists.
If you're talking jazz drummers then I must give a shout out to Jon Deitemyer, drummer for Patricia Barber.
Of course Neil Peart. And Phil Collins, Steve Gadd, Hal Blaine, Taylor Hawkins, Dave Grohl, Mitch Mitchell, Jack DeJohnette, Max Roach, Art Blakey.

Not Ginger Baker (I have all  Cream's albums and Blind Faith). I just think he's sort of a plodding clod troglodite and plays the toms way too much, the ONE exception is his work on Deserted Cities of the Heart and I only wish he played more in that style. I mean you can actually hear the SNARE on that track. But I digress...

Yes: Jim Hodder; Jim Gordon, Jeff Porcaro, Bernard “Pretty” Purdie, Paul Humphrey, Rick Marotta, Jim Keltner, Simon Philips, even Bill Ward dammit.



Michael Shrieve 1969 upstate NY. I was about 25 feet away from them when they did Soul Sacrifice
.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_pDjX65vHo

What a moment of R&R genius. An irrefutable high point, so to speak.
Y’know, I haven’t seen a mention of Liberty DeVito. DeVito was fking superb. I saw Billy Joel a bunch of times and it was mostly more to see LD. The kit rocked. Haven’t bothered with Billy Joel since the disbandment.
Same idea for Rush. I really have no use for Rush, but seeing Peart was worth the price of admission.
Kenny Aronoff is a Master. Absolutely one of my favorites. Remember when his kit had the hihat on the right? No hand over hand?
Gadd is simply fking spiritual. I overpaid for Clapton twice just to see Gadd too.

No mention of Art Blakey? Take him over Roach ANYDAY. Blakey was soul.
Clem Burke may not be "the greatest"- nobody is, I think he’s unfortunately underrated by some. I was lucky enough to hear Art Blakey at a Hollywood jazz club a few years before he died- as was so often the case the group was all young guys except for Art. He drove those "kids."
Damn!

Neil Peart Si!  Rush? Not so much.  :)
I’ll go with "favorite" rather than" best" and "pop" rather than "rock" and "rhythm section" rather than drummer. This band has my favorite rhythm section ever and is just one huge, organic rhythm machine:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jeCeoMCMn84

Ironically (per Shadorne’s issues re: one drop), the featured drummer is Winston Grennan, who is generally credited as the originator of one drop.

A lot of older non-musicians think of John Bonham as the gold-standard in Rock drumming (younger ones Neil Peart ;-). For instance, this woman I’m seeing now; she has drug me out to see two Led Zeppelin tribute bands (tb are huge in the NW, for some reason) recently (the latest just last night), both not half-bad. But the drummer in neither could come close to replicating Bonham’s style. He is unquestionably the most influential, imitated Rock drummer of them all, for better or worse.
Ginger Baker for me and also Keith Moon and Jim Keltner. Someone current you all will probably dismiss and/or sneer at John Fishman.
I saw Jason Bonham recently and he does a really great job of replicating the feel of his father while also having his own style (slightly more modern feel being more on the beat). I agree that the feel of John Bonham is hard to replicate - he really does deliberately hit late (behind the beat) quite often and the feeling is like it is about to fall apart but always catching up -this gives the music a lot of movement - and, of course, the “1” is always where it is supposed to be (he knew what he was doing).

https://youtu.be/jz0XbcaO4xk
Speaking of famous drummers with famous drummer dads---Zak Starkey, while no Keith Moon (who is?!), is doing a great job in The Who.

jond’s nomination of Jim Keltner (of which I heartily approve and second) begs the question: what constitutes a "Rock" drummer? Before Keltner starting playing in The Playboys (Gary Lewis’ backing band) in the mid-60’s, he was, in his own words, a Jazz snob. He is Jazz guitarist Bill Frisell’s first call drummer (as well as Ry Cooder’s, and many other guitarists and songwriters), and does mostly studio work. Is he a "Rock" drummer? Does he even play what you consider Rock music?

The same can be asked about Steve Gadd, who has been working with Eric Clapton for years. I guess you could call Clapton’s music Rock, but Gadd was trained in rudiments and played in the Army/Navy Band during the Vietman War era (a good way to not have to go shoot or be shot at!). I just watched a documentary on Clapton’s 2014 World Tour, and Gadd played very few fills (the opposite of Neil Peart, who never passes up that opportunity), focusing on establishing the structure of each song, and creating the feel and groove of the band. Gadd is a fantastic drummer (one of the handful of best in the world, imo) who can, and does, play one of the best drum solos I’ve ever heard and seen. Very advanced technical ability, but he doesn’t feel the need to constantly prove it by over-playing, a rarity.

Seeing a Led Zeppelin tribute band live last night reminded me of just how guilty John Bonham was of over-playing (completely unnecessary fills which in no way advanced the song, and in fact just duplicated what someone else was playing), and how his style of playing was adopted by the vast majority of Rock drummers that followed him. Over-playing is by far the number one complaint about drummers by other musicians. Good ones, that is ;-) .

Check this is out

Changing or adding movement to a simple rock 1/8 note pattern to the odd triplet feel (by playing on the “e” of four instead of the “&”)

https://youtu.be/vl9188EPdLI

Simple but really effective! 

Often the genius things are simple but it takes a genius to know when it will work effectively!
Good video, and for the reason stated is why Ringo is such a musical drummer. Love how honest he is.

bdp, totally agree about Steve Gadd. Didn't know about the military band but clearly he was well schooled in rudiments. So true that he plays what the song requires, in contrast to Peart.

But I must disagree about Bonham's style with LZ. He wasn't overplaying, he was key in giving Zep their sound. What makes them so different than their contemporaries is that he was very often playing with the rhythm of the guitar, rather than the bass. 



Ya beat me to it, lowrider57! About Ringo being a musical drummer, that is. There’s a saying in the Christian faith, that you can’t serve two masters. A drummer can approach a song and choose to play it in one of two ways: either in a way to make the song sound better than if he wasn’t playing (and/or make the singer and/or other musicians sound "better"), or in a way to make himself sound as good as possible. While both criteria can and have been satisfied in rare examples (by the best of the best---Levon Helm, Roger Hawkins, Jim’s Gordon and Keltner, Al Jackson Jr., Steve Gadd amongst that elite group), it is usually one or the other---one precluding the other.

I’m not here to denigrate the drumming of John Bonham; it is what it is. He was indeed very instrumental in creating the Led Zeppelin style of music, and remains hugely influential, much more so than drummers whose playing I personally prefer. Lowrider, you are very correct in saying that Bonham didn’t play "with" the bassist, as is the norm in a band with a true rhythm section. It’s hard to call two-thirds of a 3-piece band a rhythm "section"!

The over-playing in his style that I was speaking of can be demonstrated by playing any number of LZ songs, and, as you noted, involves his interaction with Page’s guitar parts. What Bonham does is play an overly-long (imo) run around his toms, duplicating, on his "untuned" (drums are tensioned, not tuned to notes, generally speaking) instrument (specifically his tom toms) what Page is already playing. Playing those notes all around his toms serves no musical purpose (there’s that term again), and creates a one-dimensional style of music, with no depth, no layers. True, Bonham doesn’t play that way all the time in every song, but it IS his basic approach. Recall the guitar, drum, and bass parts in "Good Times, Bad Times", for example; all three are accenting the same rhythm. SO one dimensional! If each would play "off" each other, rather than in unison, it would make for more interesting music, imo.

What the best drummers (and other musicians) do is play parts that compliment the playing of the other musicians, rather than doubling what is already being played. John Paul Jones often does the same thing as Bonham, playing the same notes on bass as is Page on guitar, but of course an octave lower. That is the basis of "Riff Rock" style music. It is, for those desiring depth in music, very boring.

Compare the drum and bass playing on the first Led Zeppelin album to that on the first Band album. A world of difference! The Band’s bassist Rick Danko creates almost "songs within songs"---using counterpoint, inversions, octaves, syncopation, and other techniques to enrich the music. Drummer Levon Helm does the same, leaving "holes" where the others are already playing a note, putting one in where no one else is. Listen to all the "passing of the musical baton" going on in "This Wheel’s On Fire" on Music From Big Pink. Insanely great! Every time the song comes around again to the "stop" in the middle of the chorus, the guitar, drums, and bass play their "pick-up" note in a different order from the last time. Depth, baby! Playing in this manner enriches the musicality of the song, is far more interesting, and just sounds cooler. It is also far harder to do, and requires musical taste (an understanding of what not to play), which, I’m sorry to say, John Bonham lacked. Just my opinion, of course.