Given the subject line many names come to mind such as Ginger Baker, Keith Moon, Phil Collins and Carl Palmer but, is Neil Peart the greatest rock drummer of all time?
Wrong. Palmer is way closer than Gadd whose basic nature is totally different from Rich´s, more relaxed and laid back. And for pure technical ability ? The best alive Calaiuta ? Wrong again. Not even close. Your perspective and experience seems surprisingly limited. You can´t even imagine that exist today equal or even better, with "pure technical ability" (what a boring expression) drummers than he. The best are beyond "technical ability", have always been. They also produce music, improvise that is. Like Palmer even today, but not so much w/ ELP as his drum solo was merely a part of the show and so usually went the same path. ELP was a show alongside symphonic rock music. In the 70´ they were spectacular, terrific live act, a trio that sounded like an orchestra. And people loved them, that´s why those boring critics hated them. Oh, I remember it vividly, they hated ALL the best bands but we kids laughed at those booooring old farts and bought just THE records they dissed. Well, some idiots actually tried to slag acts like Uriah Heep not to mention Yes and ELP. The best of them all. LOL. Great times : ) Of course, things tend to change. In the 80´s to preplace Palmer with Powell made ELP sound like dull hard rock. And yes indeed, ELP did get boring. But there wasn´t master Palmer anymore, was there. Palmer is exactly 1/3 of that makes it symphonic (rock) music. In music some people are irreplaceable, quite literally. I listened to that video clip above and found nothing to be excited about, same quite dull thing like near all "technical" drum solos are. Obviously haven´t bothered listen to people like Simon Phillips who can swing and scuffle and play everything and virtually with everybody, from heavy acid blues Jack Bruce to "complex" A(dult)OR/pseudo prog Toto (never cared for them but OK whilst washing the car), with high technical standard, still going strong. Not to mention certain musicians from totally different, very old musical cultures.
I find the drumming of Steve Gadd closer to that of Buddy Rich than Carl Palmer's. For pure technical ability, nobody alive is better than Vinnie Colaiuta (Jeff Beck). For a close look at Fito DeLa Parra, watch him in the Woodstock movie. He, like Neil Peart, can't play a shuffle to save his life ;-) .
+ audiozen knows that Corky Laing kicked West´s and Pappalardi´s ass but it had to be West with Bruce that could made him exhausted and he loses the race as heard on "Love Is Worth the Blues" (studio album 1972) he just bangs the cymbals furiously without timing it´s almost sheer mess. Bruce´s most intense, inventive, fast and powerful playing was with these guys. He made them shine and vice versa. Period.
For rock: Corky Laing - the cowbell master, like B.J. Wilson Keith Moon Graeme Edge is real life´s animal :_ ) https://youtu.be/N_J-hmyAS6c Animal with Buddy Rich (of course)
Carl Palmer is the only one who could wear Buddy´s boots. Never boring and perfectly fitting the music played, like ELP (rock´s best power trio btw) and his CPB playing ELP music with young brilliant musicians. These lads carry the torch to keep ELP´s and Prog music alive. Huge respect. Thanks to people like Carl Palmer Prog/Art will survive all the mediocre and total crap that´s been produced all over world. Prog will last forever : ) Besides, as seen on YT videos, today his better than in the ELP´s pinnacle, better than ever, and certainly the best of his age. And certainly the funniest as seen on certain videos. True humor no BS showing off. Pure talent. A true musician and an artist. Like was Jon Hiseman, 1944 - 2018. Huge respect RIP
Heavy rock: Lee Kerslake w/ Gary Thain (the best of the all), Bill Ward w/ Geezer Butler, Ted McKenna w/ Chris Glen, Ian Paice w/ Roger Glover
Prog: Pierluigi Calderoni w/ Titiziano Ricci, John Weathers/ Derek Schulman - rock´s most unsexist rhythm section ever LOL
Jon Hiseman RIP You really are the greatest. My humblest thanks for your fantastic Music COLOSSEUM LIVE - rock´s best live album, from the fantastic early 70´s
@astewart8944 - Thanks. I think I’ll check to see if any "day of" tickets get released and try to find some good seats. They were fantastic last time I saw them. For that tour, Steve Winwood opened. nuff said......
@reubent SD's band was the best group of musicians I have seen in a live performance (again jazz excepted). Fagen's voice is struggling; but the band and the backup singers so strong that it wasn't that big of a deal. "Ready" Freddy Cunningham played bass all night with the exception of "Peg" when they brought out Chuck Rainey, who did great. He lives in Dallas--I doubt they are doing that cameo anywhere else. I recommend you see the show. Harrington killed all the guitar parts; it is hard to be too superlative about his chops.
@astewart8944 - How was the Steely Dan show overall, without Becker? I saw them on their tour 2 years ago and I thought it was fantastic. They will be here again this summer. Just wondering if I should go see the show again.
I just saw Keith Carlock playing with Steely Dan last night in Dallas. It was the finest drum kit performance I have seen live that wasn't straight ahead jazz. His Aja solo was terrific and his own. It paid homage to Steve Gadd without sounding like Gadd. Carlock is 47 years old. Worth seeing if you get the chance.
There is never a single "best" in any art form. Both Hendrix and Segovia are great, but they can't be compared to each other. The same is true of painters, composers, writers, etc. It's not a foot race where one will have the best time - these people are going to different finish lines!
But there are some great drummers who haven't been mentioned here:
Clive Bunker (Jethro Tull) Danny Seraphine (Chicago) Terry Bozzio (Zappa) Colaiuta (mentioned already, I know)
And that's just rock. We won't even get into jazz. But the same holds true - there is no single "best" in art.
Sting wrote great melodies and lyrics and Andy was a brilliant rhythm and lead guitarist but Copeland is what actually made the Police really interesting vs everything else at the time. I remember hearing Message in a Bottle for the first time and being immediately mesmerized by the drums. This is a rare thing to experience in music. Roxanne is a pop hit that is really a Tango! Crazy ideas that somehow worked. Image if Roxanne had been the Bossa Nova that Sting originally envisioned.
I would agree the various studio drummers listed above are probably the greatest overall drummers recorded (Steve Gadd, Bernard Purdie, Jim Keltner, etc.). Yes some will go on tour with certain acts (James Taylor/Steve Gadd), but I don't think they are correctly classified as "rock" drummers. I saw The Killers this weekend. The Killers’ Ronnie Vannucci, Jr. rocked his drums for 2+ hours non-stop. Terrific show--I highly recommend it. Is he the greatest rock drummer ever? I doubt it. Do we know who was or is? No. Does Vannucci play with power, speed, and creativity plus know what a rock drummer needs to do in concert to make the audience feel good about spending big money to be there? Yep.
There were rare moments back in the late 60's and early 70's where the fusion of drums and instruments blended so well together in a handful of live rock/blues concert's that will go down in history as the greatest concerts ever that not even Jimi Hendrix could ascend to in a live concert format due to the explosive, atomic power these bands played on stage which were their peak performances of all time. The live concerts were "The Who" Live at Leeds. Creams live performances on their "Wheels of Fire" album at the Winterland and the Filmore auditoriums in early 1968. The live "Yes" "Starship Trooper concert's. Joe Cocker and "Mad Dogs and Englishmen" at the Filmore East in 1970 which went nationwide as a major motion picture. Led Zeppelin first album tour concerts 1968/69. The Allman Brother's "Eat a Peach" live concert. In The 80's hats off to Rush's live 1984 concert in Montreal, and U2's "Joshuah Tree" tour concerts 1986/87.
Incorporating all of the above by reference, I concur with Jim Keltner (on my favorite rock (kinda) album, John Hiatt's "Bring the Family") and add Brady Blade (whose brother ain't too bad, either).
He's was not rock, but Buddy Rich was the greatest drummer who ever lived. He had 4 seperate brains. One connected to each arm, and one for each leg. He played seperate rythmic patterns with each appendage at the same time. I used to stay up late as a kid when he would show up on The tonight show with Carson, He would sit in on Ed Shaunessy's drum kit and just blow everyone away with the speed, finesse, and beautiful polyrythmic paterns he would play. Turns out he wss doing a lot of amphetamines, but his drumming was magic. Made me become a drummer. One who isn't worthy to carry his sticks, but then, no one is or was, or ever will be in my opinion. Look him up on youtube.
Yes concert tickets are much more these days and so is everything else like a cup of coffee .....but there really is no inflation at all. .....just ask the Federal Reserve and the wonks there that claim to be worried about too little inflation...after printing gazillions of fiat money.
There is going to be one almighty headache, possibly even free market OD and death after this current cheap money asset and stock market and everything party (bubble)...
Whats really a gas is that the average cost of a ticket at Eagles back then to see all those great drummer's and bands was $3.75 The Eagles tour last year cost $200.00 a ticket. What a screw job. Their sitting on several hundred million dollars cash at their banks. Thats worse than Al Capone.
Finally remembered the two other bands I saw at the Coliseum. John Hiseman and his group Colesseum, and The Soft Machine. Quit going to the Coliseum shows since the Seattle Police were doing pat searches looking for drugs, having to take off your shoes and empty your pockets. In the 80's at the Bumbershoot festivals, saw Mitch Ryder, Tina Turner(what a big ball of love), The Ventures, and my last concert I attended, Roy Orbison.
Correction..my mistake, I apologize..confusion of this old timer. Concerts West was founded by Seattle's Pat O'Day, who was outright threatened by Boyd Grafmyre due to his rise at Eagles, Pat O'Day came out of the early sixties doing rock shows at the Spanish Castle. He was the Dick Clark of the NW and the hottest DJ on Seattle's KJR a.m. radio. Slick well dressed conservative. When the counter culture exploded in the sixtie's is when Grafmyre made his move capturing the hippie culture in Seattle. Pat O'Day was never in the counter culture scene. He had great appeal to conservative teenagers. He had more money and power than Boyd and ripped the rug out from under him to prevent him taking over Seattles rock scene on a large scale since the counter culture rock bands ended the grease period and took over. So O'day switches to counter culture bands to prevent the rise of Grafmyre and moves the concerts to the Seattle Center. Never liked Pat O'Day. What a schmuck. By 1970 Eagles shuts down, but Eagles will always be Seattle's greatest rock hall from the past. Got confused over Grafmyre and O'Day since they have been off my mind over 40+ years.
shadorne..thanks for the correct year, 1968. At my age its more difficult to keep the mind accurate sliding into old age. Getting old sucks! Seeing the Fudge and Blood Sweat & Tears in '68 was the start of the Fudges' tour and Zeppelin replaced B,S,& T's as the opener when they hit the west coast. Yes I was lucky, but painfully lucky at that time period. Worst time of my life. At the time, I was living in a run down "skid road" hotel that I co-manged with my alcoholic mother in Seattle's Chinatown. My only salvation that prevented me from slipping into darkness were rock concerts. Big time. For those youngsters from the Pacific Northwest in their late 30's to mid 40's reading this thread, who think the Show Box in downtown Seattle at 1st & Pike is the greatest rock auditorium in Seattle's history, are dead wrong. Let me educate you. Your going to love this. Lets go back to 1966 when a little known man named Boyd Grafmyre, known as the Bill Graham of the Northwest, took over an auditorium at 7th & Union in downtown Seattle called Eagles Auditorium. The rock bands that played Eagles at the time were the greatest rock bands in the world. Here are the groups I saw at Eagles. The Youngbloods with Jesse Colin Young. The Steve Miller Band. The original Fleetwood Mac with Peter Green. Lee Michaels and his drummer Frosty. The Byrds,(saw them on LSD). Blue Mountain Eagle. Paul Butterfield Band, Pauls' harmonica playing was killer. Joe Cocker and his Grease band on their first U.S. tour. Jethro Tull on his first U.S. tour. Around 1970 Boyd became so big he moved his operation to the Seattle Center Coliseum now known as the Key Arena, and founded a company called Concerts West. At the Coliseum I saw Jimi Hendrix, Yes on their first U.S. tour. They opened for Jethro Tull and blew Jethro Tull out the window. Santana, Chicago, KC & the Sunshine Band. And of course Zeppelin. Saw Paul McCartney and Wings at Seattle's King Dome in 1976. In the early 80's, saw Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones at the Dome as well. Boy, life sure goes fast.
bdp24: "I’m going to guess Steve Cham also considers Bonham a more inventive and musical drummer than Jim Gordon"
I have no idea as to what your supposition is based on. I like Jim Gordon very much. I like Levon Helm too. John Bonham left very deep tracks in the drum canon.
One outstanding drummer that rarely gets mentioned, and it really ticks me off, is Corky Laing from the band Mountain. I saw him play in the early 70's at the West, Bruce and Laing concert in Seattle. Jack Bruce and Leslie West that night really kicked ass on their guitars.
Carmen Appice is a killer drummer. My very first concert I went to was at the original Electric Factory in Philadelphia in the spring of 1968. Vanilla Fudge and Blood Sweat and Tears back to back.
I will not attempt to persuade anyone that a specific drummer is the best. I will say that Terry Bozzio is worth hearing. I first heard of him with the group, “Missing Persons”. Later, he was playing with Frank Zappa.
It was when two great guitar slingers, Stevie Ray Vaughn and Jeff Beck, came to town that I realized how good he is. In my opinion, Bozzio’s solo with Jeff Beck stole the show. He released a CD in 1998, “Drawing Circles”, which is his drumming only.
Bonham learned his bass drum punctuation and triplet style from listening to Carmen Appice of Vanila Fudge. He managed to emulate essential aspects of what Carmen did with two feet on the double bass drum with just one foot and a single kick drum. Plenty of folks since then have developed these skills but at the time it was unusual to see such an accomplished rock drummer (jazz drummers were far better than rock drummers back then and today it is the heavy metal drummers with insane foot skills)
You were very very lucky to catch them so early on... you saw history in the making ...but the year would have been 1968 not 1969. I believe Carmen was very supportive of Bonham and helped get Led Zeppelin as one of the opening acts, touring together. After the tour (done with rented gear), Bonham’s own Ludwig endorsement and kit was obtained with Carmen’s assistance. He initially had a double bass drum kit identical to Carmen but Page said it was just too much and that he “couldn’t hear himself think”.
I have to share this..I happened to see Led Zeppelin on their first U.S. tour. I saw them at the Seattle Center Ice Arena and had no clue who they were. They opened for Vanilla Fudge. The concert was on December 27th, 1969, just weeks before their first album was released. I was 17 at the time. Halfway through their set, I almost went into shock, my heart could not stop pounding and had a hard time keeping my breathing steady. These guys were fresh from the assembly line. They stole the show that night. I have seen every Zeppelin Concert in Seattle except two, May 1970 when they played outdoors at Seattle's Green Lake Amphitheater. That concert was filmed and a very good quality video of the concert is currently on YouTube. The other show I missed was their 1976 concert at the Seattle Center Coliseum. That night in 1969 was a concert from Heaven. John Bonham that night played with such technical virtuosity, doing a perfect snare roll with one stick, never done by any other drummer that I'm aware of. His rudiments that night were breathtaking. He only had one bass drum in his kit. His technical skills went down hill in the seventies and he never played like that again due to severe alcohol and drug abuse. Out of all the live rock concerts I've seen in twenty years, that concert in '69 will always be #1 on my list.
Well audiozen, Clapton and George Harrison were very close, so Eric may in fact have played on another White Album song. But he talked about how amazed he was that George invited him along to a session one day, and how "wrong" it felt to be playing on a Beatles record! It just so happened that they were recording ’WMGGW" that day, and aren’t we glad! Clapton never mentioned playing on any other of their songs, that I know of.
The guys he really wanted to play with were The Band. After hearing Music From Big Pink, he made a pilgrimage to Woodstock, waiting, he says, for them to ask him to join. After all, he disbanded Cream after hearing MFBP ;-). He says he finally realized they didn’t need him, and went looking for another good band to play with. He found one in Delaney & Bonnie’s road band, where he met the players who were to become his band in Derek & The Dominoes.
Thanks bdp24 for that correction. I was not aware of Claptons' involvement on the White Album until the early 80's when I read a brief bio on Clapton in a music magazine stating that Clapton played two tracks on the White Album. Apparently the article was incorrect.
That is indeed Clapton on "WMGGW", but not on "Yer Blues". However, Clapton DID play guitar on the song when Lennon performed it in The Rolling Stones Rock And Roll Circus live show.
An interesting Beatles song, guitar-credit wise, is "The End". There is a long section in which McCartney, Harrison, and Lennon take turns playing the "lead" part. John’s playing is the crudest, of course ;-).
Mickey Hart and Bill Kreutzman of the Grateful Dead. Even after 50 years of playing they're still just incredible. Planning to see 'em again this summer with Dead and Company.
"Clapton did all the lead guitar work on two tracks, "While my Guitar Gently Weeps" and "Yer Blues"
I'm fairly certain that "Yer Blues" has two lead guitar parts, neither of which was played by Eric Clapton. If you know otherwise, please cite the source of your information. You might be confusing the studio track with some live version(s).
Excellent nomination of Jim Karstein, shadorne. I'm impressed! Others of his ilk (supremely musical, therefore unknown to most) include Jim Christie (Lucinda Williams, Dwight Yoakam), David Kemper (T Bone Burnett), Don Heffington (Emmylou Harris, Lone Justice, Victoria Williams, Buddy Miller), Kenny Buttrey (Dylan, Neil Young, Nashville studios), and Harry Stinson (Marty Stuart, Nashville studios). All the above are favorites of songwriters, a very good sign.
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