Synergistic research is using a technology thst is finally cost effective in their fuses very little is used and see the pricing https://www.graphene4u.com/product-page/graphene-5-10-layer-powder-1gr Synergistic with all the hype and Millions of dc Tesla volts $150 for s fuse is well over $100+ profit for someone. Hopefully the competition will start using In the mean time the Hifi tuning Supreme are a big step up over stock fuses for s fraction of the Synergistic cost. The price should have been no higher ,maybe lower . But Synergistic is built on Hype and half truths built up information PT Barnum would be proud !! The link prove the cost it has come way down and Graphene prices are dropping as more People are now using Grapine from Semiconductors to capacitors now fuses and many other Things . Nicola Tesla would be totally pissed off his vision of free electricity now using his Tesla Coil as a selling tool . Be a smart buyer !!
My link was removed ,but if you look up Graphine many are now selling even in small quantities. Just do a search ..graphene was Discovered decades ago in the U.K only recently has it been cost effective to produce. This is why using Graphene is No longer expensive ,and to charge Big $$ is not being truthfull for a product Added to metal to enhance its conductivity. These should be under $100 Tops. It is your money.
Graphene has to be adhered to something in the electrical element Since it is a product of Carbon ribbon .
Electricity flows very quickly through the simple honeycomb sheet. Most conductors we encounter are metals, yet graphene is based on carbon, a nonmetal. This allows for the development of electricity to flow under conditions where we might not want a metal. What conditions would those be? We are only just beginning to answer that question!
GRAPHENE CAN BE USED TO MAKE VERY SMALL DEVICES.
Graphene conducts so much electricity in so small a space that it may be used to develop miniaturized super fast computers and transistors. These devices should require a minuscule amount of power to support them.
Graphene is flexible, strong and transparent, too.
It is not expensive to implement . But on these Audio pages it is totally magnified It's uses are valued, but not the cost. If you want to give up $150 per fuse go for it it is your money . Myself will wait until next year .others will be following suit in several areas even in circuit boards semiconductors,capacitors . I just dislike a lot of the BS to make a buck. How about charging less and making more $$ in Volume ? Thst would make 10x more sense and far more people would be willing to Try it. That makes much more sense to most Audiophiles .
If someone is going to complain about an audiophile product so vociferously the least he could do is get his facts straight. The Graphene in audiophile fuses is not used in the wire element. That’s why the SR Black fuse is black. Duh! 😛 Graphene appeared in tennis racquets four years so I’d say it was invented in 2004. Final answer.
I think those $150 fuses are a steal! In 5 years folks will be spending over $1K for a fuse, and look back on the good old days when fuses were under $200. ;^)
Mad Scientist uses Carbon Fiber as the main conductor in his digital cables and uses it and Graphene is most of his products as well. He doesn't charge ridiculous prices for it either. In fact, his prices are reasonable. What he uses in one cable could probably be used to make many fuses and yet he doesn't charge an arm and a leg.
Nonoise thanks for the heads up Graphene prices have come Ways down in the last 2 years with many companies now realizing the potential . someone should let Synergistic know for a 1 inch fuse there just is not much of anything being used here but hype and promotions. Hopefully the competition like hifi tuning will get on board for well under $100 then at least it will be within reason . Look at Audio magic almost $200 each. I will look st the Graphene carbon interconnects at least there you can see there is something substantial you spent your money on . Synergistic wants $1,000s for their Graphene interconnects ,that is just plain pure greed ,Period !!
I gave dealt with synergistic on several levels. The owner thinks He us above everyone and 150 for a fuse is a Huge ripoff on many level there is no way this fuses cost more then $40 at most and that is being generous . I did not think the black fuses were thst much better then the Hifi tuning Supreme fuses in my system . A smart company would charge less sells 4x as much and bring in many new customers. This is exactly what the Chinese did as a business model in the UK when living there. I just hate being Excessively charged. I am in no rush I will wait until they sells them for $25% off ,or buy 2 get 1 free like they did for the Black fuses this past summer. Nothing more to be said here.
^^^ One listen to the new SR BLUE fuses and the checkbooks will be opened. As good as the SR BLACK fuses are, the BLUE’s blow them away. With a 30 day return policy what’s to be lost in trying them?
What difference does it make how much profit is being made if the product returns much more than the original cost to the end user. Since when did profit become evil in America? Profit is what keeps the doors open and the jobs remaining on the site. <Sheesh!>
When mentioning so what if it us a Huge profit for the seller if it is a good product. As I mentioned earlier since Sin ergistic has made tons of money on many questionable things such as which myself and others had to spend an additional $400 for a wall wart upgrade on active shielding yo make it should at its bedt whrn in fact it should have come stock this way roughly another $15 in better resistive capacitive board . This is why since the fuses are do dnsll and cost effective the prices without question should be under $100 to give back to all the loyal Audiophiles who have spent their Hard earned money . Make less profit ,but allow many X the number of buyers to afford them ,as well as new customers. That is good business practice . Just think about this for a moment. This is why myself and Many others will just wait as with all new items and trends as with their Black fuses they will have a 25% off, or buy 2 get 1 free as was done recently. Many systems have at least 10 fuses . Going up 25% in price is not trying to make a Tweak goid value in fact it should have gone down 25% .My friend is a dealer in Europe and he spoke with a ex engineer for Hifi tuning he stated once in production profits are 3-4X Mark up per fuse . Noe add on your 25% Mark up for marketing build up . Graphene is Not thst expensive at all the pricing has dropped Drastically over the last 2 years since it is becoming common place in msny audio applications. For a change show some appreciation and Give the Audiophile a break !!
Many systems have at least 10 fuses? Shazam! I did not know that. 🙄
I think the best advice I can give perhaps is if you can't afford aftermarket fuses don't buy them. Tip for the financially strapped: even stock off-the-shelf fuses are directional so you might be able to squeeze a little more out of your system by reversing them one at a time. What are the odds? Sorry about that if you have 10 or more fuses. 😛
Sometimes it is not just the money aspect of it but like most Audiophiles Justifying the cost. Or just a matter of principle when I feel as Many Audiophiles do Adding 25% to a new fuse cost from previius model, when it already has at minimum 4x + mark up Built into the cost. If you are looking at this from a sellers stand point Then nothing more to be said.
Geoffkait 8 tedious hours for the amps. Plus you are on a roll today!
I pick E none of the above. As for C only till your brought back up to room temperature, but you would have a lot more carbon in your system, at least that's what happens with steel.
A reasonable educated guess would be that it costs SR $37.50 to make a blue fuse. They then sell that fuse to a retailer for $75. Gross profit would be $37.50. Before they start making any net profit, they need to sell enough to recover whatever amount they spent on R & D to develop it. After that, they need to cover ongoing business overhead, so net profit on each fuse will be something less than $37.50. I’m thinking $15-20? How many can they sell? IF they can sell 10,000, they might make $200,000.
By SR’s own admission, the number is more likely to be nearer to $25, in their indicated 6:1 ratio. There is a cable bible of a sort issued by TAS, IIRC. In it synergistic states this ratio for a given company viability in the cable market.
As a manufacturer, I say that’s cutting it close. The dealer get the lion’s share but does the least work/effort these days. Many retailers are doing what they can to not stock anything and push the stocking of product on distributors and manufacturers. This is the end result of the manipulated financial crunch(es) and slow pump/drip elimination of the western middle class.
Thus dealers are many times killing their own reason for existing, in the eyes of the manufacturers and in some ways...distributors. Distributors are supposed to be a stock and distribution buffer for a manufacturer. If not... then they are a waste of time for a manufacturer.
To top it off, the manufacturer carries the entire weight of the sale ad infinum... and definitely has the smallest part of the pie.
The economic squeeze due to the past 20 internet years is only part of what is squeezing the previously functional model dry, so that many manufacturers are going it alone (direct to dealer) and/or going direct (direct to customer).
Prices are all over the place as the model is still not stabilized or finalized in it’s changes.
My thoughts are educated in having dealt with these subjects at the personal manufacturing (direct to customer) level and up into the ~$10m a year systems of distribution and dealership concerns, over the past 20 years. (started in sales and working with the public at age 9--that’s 44 years experience now) (I’ve got no final answer, there is none...but I’ve got a decent window view)
The op is saying something about an ’over $100 profit for somebody’. No such beast exists. No one is sending their kids to universities on the backs of this one. The market is too small to have the product throughput to do much more than help everyone involved earn a living. Somewhere near zero of the people involved are buying yachts or expensive cars.
Importantly, People make and sell this sort of stuff as they like and love music, the money is secondary for a huge number of the manufacturers in the world of audio. It’s not the best area of choice regarding financial futures. It’s a terrible choice, actually.
Who cares what the math is? The real advantage of such a product as the Blue Fuse is that it can’t be duplicated and (probably) a lot of folks want one. So, you’re kind of compelled to buy it for whatever price they’re asking. Infuriating, ain’t it? 😩
Is that a challenge I hear? Do I hear an invitation to the competition dance? :)
But no, I think that Geoff might be yanking chains, just a bit, or like Taras notes when he looks at your posts and says ’Geoff is just lobbing bombs over the fence, probably for the fun of it’.
When I was a kid, one of my neighbors, a few blocks away, one of those kids was caught shooting a dog in the butt with a pellet gun. the dog would bark into the night, freaking out. the owner would come out and scold the dog, and then go back inside. Nervous dog, tied to a chain..looking around in the dark....the kid would shoot the dog in the butt again. Then the dog owner, more angry than before, would come outside and get physical, scolding the dog, then go back inside. The kid would shoot the poor confused and lost dog in the butt again...rinse, repeat.
Your pellet gun use on the forum recalcitrant, is exemplary. Without peer. :p
One thing I would like you see from Synergistic .The Tesla coil was developed by the great genius of Nicola Tesla which by the way wanted electricity affordable to all at low monies, and universally . The FBI stole all his potential future products and blackballed by the rich including Edison which stole intellectual properties. My point is Synergistic makes manyclaims or boasts of Millions of D.C. Volts and benifits .not one thing to back this up . Let's see several independent tests and the % of improvement s. sonicly myself and other have found even the black fusesnot always better. I have found in my preamp theHifi tuning supreme were better balanced ,the black Synergistic darker. In my amp the Synergistic were a bit better. After 150 hours. Not everything is etched in stone. I may buy a few of these fuses but not until I find a dealer who will give at least 15% off 2 or more fuses. There are always dealers willing to do business. In this day and age only a desperate buyer would pay full retail for Anything.
Nice to see someone actually comment on the relative sound characteristics of different brands of fuses instead of the usual, er, whatever.
I know one person that likes the HiFi Tuning fuse better than the SR Black in some components in his system also. More of this type of post, perhaps excepting the commentary on pricing and measurement (it’s never gonna happen), would be most welcome around here IMO.
The measurements of a fuse in a graph, as specifications... involve graphing how the element behaves in a non-linear fashion, regarding how it constricts current during transients.
this adds a non linear distortion characteristic, an inharmonic or odd harmonic distortion pattern that is dependent on the given in-situ momentary current load. Since the ear is very sensitive to non linear and in-harmonic distortions, the 'sound' of a fuse on a dc rail or AC power (traditional rectifying power supply) system is easily heard.
Various audiophile fuses and standard fuses have various effects on the given loading scenarios. Easy enough to understand. No mystery, just the ear and the functionality of a fuse, as a pair of bookends.
Audioman58 "One thing I would like you see from Synergistic. The Tesla coil was developed by the great genius of Nicola Tesla which by the way wanted electricity affordable to all at low monies, and universally . The FBI stole all his potential future products and blackballed by the rich including Edison which stole intellectual properties.
My point is Synergistic makes manyclaims or boasts of Millions of D.C. Volts and benifits .not one thing to back this up. Let’s see several independent tests and the % of improvements."
>>>>>>I doubt Synergistic is under any obligation to either divulge how they accomplish their treatment or how it works. not by Consumer Reports, not by Better Business Bureau, not by the Feds. Although I seem to recall SR did offer some sort of explanation somewhere for what r Tesla Coil does to wire and fuses. But no manufacturer is under any obligation to divulge anything, in terms of operational mechanism or any such thing. It’s actually one super good reason not (rpt not) to obtain a parent, you know, so one doesn’t have to reveal all the gory details. It nice to be able to control some of one’s intellectual property. Now, if an individual or independent third party tester wishes to test something I they’re free to do so. Knock yourselves out! Ironically perhaps, this never happens with these unusual, sometimes preposterous, controversial tweaks like aftermarket fuses, whether of the beeswax variety or Graphene or Tesla Coil.
The only thing to keep in mind is that Synergistic does offer a 30 day money-back guarantee. Small comfort, but it IS a guarantee. And some of the fuses are more demonstrably better than others. The Black is decent, but not tremendously better than the Red (at least, in my system). How long does the Blue take to break in, by the way?
Small comfort? That's seems a rather odd thing to say about a 30 day money back guarantee. I'd say it was a great comfort. That's kind of the whole point.
@gbmcleod Someone else has posted that the fuse is almost broken in when you buy it. Some kind of conditioning is already done and out of the box, it is said to better a broken in SR Black fuse.
Apparently, I phrased that in a way it could be misunderstood, so let me attempt a "do-over." My second line was "small comfort, but it IS A GUARANTEE." I meant - that for those who are upset about the cost - the cost itself is bound to chafe, but if they use it and aren’t happy, there is still the guarantee that they can return it without being hassled. Cost is not always the final word in worldly matters. For some, even if they love it, they’re going to remember what they paid for the "love." In my case, I’ve had every generation of the fuses. Including the Blue, thank you very much. From my point of view, ONE Blue fuse will advance a system. I can say that, in hindsight, some of the older fuses (and I read your posts and quite a few others in the past hour, about the Reds sounding "thin"). You demurred. I agreed with you then, but recently found an Audio Horizon fuse I had bought years ago, and whatever was in the system (or maybe it was my setup at the time), it didn’t reveal ’new layers of reality’. So, I put a Red, and eventually, a Black. After a month or two of using the Black and being vaguely discontented, I re-installed a Red fuse, and, as I said in one of my older threads, years ago, in the PS Audio Power Plant P-300, a Red was UNQUESTIONABLY better than a Black, something I ALSO pointed out in my thread (I’m a VERY wordy guy) that another user who had the same P-300, had concluded as well. And he hadn't read my post, and I hadn't read his. But we both had the same unit, so...
But NOW, after using the Red for a couple of years I can say that the Audio Horizon IS fuller-sounding than the Red. This is a very recent development: I only found the Audio Horizon in the past month. So, it is better than the Red. In.The.P-300. I’ve also owned Adept Audience’s Teflon unit, and Bybee’s way back in the day (1999) . But I never changed fuses back then, because they weren’t a subject anyone had yet discovered.
Back to my post. I don't know why it would sound odd to you, given I wrote that it was a guarantee, but, oh well.... I hope this makes it less ambiguous to you. Others, I think, will get the point, which is, you’ll have to shell the money out FIRST, and then if/when you hear it, you’ll either be happy you bought it, or you’ll love the sound, but decide you just. can’t - in the end - stomach the cost. And then, you can STILL return it, knowing it sounds better (it does and it’s not thin - like the RED WAS in the lower midrange - which was NOT Audio Research’s strength in past units). And I’ve owned them, so this is from experience. But at least, people will have had the opportunity to try it without fearing - like so many other products - that they're stuck with something they don't absolutely love. And THAT is the Audio world's version of Dante's Inferno. Hell. Forever damned with something they don't want. (Until re-sale time, but you're never getting your full investment back. Not the case with SR's devices.)
The Blue seems quite vibrant, no matter whether it’s opera (The Ring Cycle sounds more powerful, as does ’Macbeth’ with Shirley Verrett on an all-digital recording by Deutshe Grammaphon from way back in the early days of digital). Or pop. Linda Ronstadt's 'What's New' album sounded New! Her voice, all breathy (not an elevated lower treble, either!) and verging on continuousness, a quality even really good - and expensive - electronics, rarely convey. (The Jadis units do this magically.). The Fifth Dimension’s Greatest Hits is playing and it has more verve and gusto, which, in my experience, means more "power" in the 100-400 region. I’ve only got one in use, placed in my "control" integrated amp, the NAD C325BEE. It’s always the first one I go to, because there’s only one set of interconnects being used, and the NAD shows improvements quite fast. I have to say, this is pretty fast, given it only has 15 hours or so on it. But I remember SR’s Black outlet. It sounded fantastic the first evening I played it. Two days later, it sucked. I kept thinking "500 hours," but it might as well have been 500 years. It never came back to that first evening’s performance. It was dull, the exact opposite of the 2nd generation Red outlet (the color, not the model. The first generation had a stainless steel strap and Denney said he changed it after reading reviews on here. So, the man is likely reading your post, my post, and everyone else’s. We’re a very vocal bunch. If the Blue continues this streak, then I will agree that it’s his best, although I will then have to spring for a 5 amp fuse for the PS Audio to see if it improves there as well. (I just got 6.3s for the NAD, which uses 5 fuses. Expensive. Quite. For a $500 integrated). And I’m not putting in the others until I had a grip on what one is doing.
For ME - SO FAR - it’s pretty damn good. But I’ve been disappointed by the magic of the love affair in the beginning, only to be let down as things progress. So, at 15 hours, it’s a Grand Slam. 100 hours? 300 hours? We’ll see. Was that good for you, Geoffkait? I hope so.
You're welcome to read my many other posts on fuses (as I did yours - at great length). Tonight even. Done the fuse directionality thing. Pointed that out. Many times. NOT the point here. The only 'odd' thing is that the thread here is about costs. Guarantee. Ability to return. And sound quality. Odd you neglected all that. I think I'll just go back to listening to - and enjoying - the music. This is enough back and forth when someone doesn't listen, but simply tries to score points. I thought this was a cooperative community. Apparently not all the time.
That's weird. I just scanned all of your fuse related posts going back to 2012 and saw no mention of directionality. Maybe it's there somewhere, hidden from prying eyes. 👀
Geez, all this talk of the high cost of fuses and the high cost of Graphene but I don't see any vociferous naysayers or DIYers cranking out Graphene in their basements. It's not really rocket science. There are plenty of YouTube videos explaining how to make Graphene at home. Just keep in mind Graphene is only one molecule thick. Once the frugal and intrepid DIYer perfects making sheets of Graphene can I suggest a few applications for Graphene? Obviously care should be taken with Graphene since it's very conductive.
a. Wrapped around capacitors b. Wrapped around fuses c. Wrapped around tonearms d. Applied to CDs, label side only e. Wrapped around small wire bundles in electronics
Synergistic's management are probably upset that you didn't write their business model for them. Hope that nothing else gets you so agitated. My SR fuses have been good sonic value for the dollar.
Geoffkait - perhaps your search missed a few threads. Here’s one from Sept. 2011:
"No more calls! We have a WINNER!!!! And I’ll just ask the guy who I sent them to to post on this thread after he’s had the fuse in about 24 hours. It should show some significant improvements by then unless the fuse (HiFi Tuning is the manufacturer, and it cost around $37.95) is oriented wrong. I’m not sure if only the top level (the "Supreme" model, which is built like the Mundorf, is directional, but I advised him that, if it didn’t sound right to his ears, to turn the fuse (it has an arrow on the body) in the other direction and see if it makes a difference. Frankly, I’d NEVER go back to the fuse supplied with my equipment. This fuse has made it so easy to differentiate between "fuzziness" that’s on a recording and what may be the equipment ahead of it (I have it in the Hurricane amps, remember). Of course, my First Sound doesn’t have a fuse in it: I called the designer, Emannuel Go, to ask if there was a fuse in the power supply and he replied there wasn’t. (I was disappointed: these days, I want to put fuses in EVERYthing!). So, that eliminates having to open the power supply."
The title of the thread is "Upgrading Fuses." Started August 27, 2011. And that was just the first one I found: there are several others. This was one where I was giving away fuses so others could try them without any financial loss. I found it in fewer than 5 minutes.
Reading comprehension glitch alert. I said I only went back as far as 2012. The archives are uh, chronological. There are only so many hours in a day. 😛
I just went back to when I first became aware of fuses. There are more recent ones. And, post 2012, since there are several generations of Synergistic fuses, and I’ve owned every one of them and commented on them. But really, it’s irrelevant. I’m here to share with others, not shame them.
The more important question - to which you would know the answer, as you have had a head start on me with the Blues - is: how long did you find they need to break in? The earlier ones seemed to take quite a while of steady playing. Does that trend continue with the Blue?
I doubt Synergistic is under any obligation to either divulge how they accomplish their treatment or how it works. not by Consumer Reports, not by Better Business Bureau, not by the Feds. Although I seem to recall SR did offer some sort of explanation somewhere for what r Tesla Coil does to wire and fuses. But no manufacturer is under any obligation to divulge anything, in terms of operational mechanism or any such thing. It’s actually one super good reason not (rpt not) to obtain a parent, you know, so one doesn’t have to reveal all the gory details. It nice to be able to control some of one’s intellectual property. Now, if an individual or independent third party tester wishes to test something I they’re free to do so. Knock yourselves out! Ironically perhaps, this never happens with these unusual, sometimes preposterous, controversial tweaks like aftermarket fuses, whether of the beeswax variety or Graphene or Tesla Coil.
"The more important question - to which you would know the answer, as you have had a head start on me with the Blues - is: how long did you find they need to break in? The earlier ones seemed to take quite a while of steady playing. Does that trend continue with the Blue?"
If YOU had been reading MY posts you would have seen me say I don't believe it’s possible, under ordinary circumstances, for anyone (rpt anyone) to ascertain what the break in period is for anything, including fuses. To summarize what I posted on the subject previously there are way too many *variables* and *uncertainties* involved including but not limited to time of day, day of week, how many thing the person does to his system in the meantime, both international and unintentional and the person’s general hearing acuity to be able to track the progress of break in and establish when break in is complete. In addition most audiophiles are continually breaking in multiple cables, fuses, whatever. Have you noticed how many people have 4 fuses, or 6 fuses, or 12 fuses? Most folk buy one to see how they like it then but more as they can afford it. Fuses are constantly breaking in!
Compared to the SR Black fuses, the Blue fuses seem to be broken in right out of the box. Not true of course. The break in seems to be subtle compared to the Black fuses. The Blacks took a few backward steps during break in ... while the Blues just take a steady pathway to improvement. Each listening session seems to be better than the last.
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