History is littered with individuals who've made substantial contributions and yet are not wholly admirable as people.
Then again, I can't claim to be wholly admirable, either.
God doesn't need to know what time it is.
Value of anything is a most fascinating subject to me.
Eric Clapton hasn't owned this Rolex Daytona for nearly 20 years. It 's probably been in storage since he dumped it and is expected to fetch north of $1.6M?
For that much I'd want his playing ability AND his stereo system.
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Great observation! Thanks... But "ideology fan boy" dont mind to understand a problem...They apply the same solution to anything at infinitum....
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@tylermunns You forgot to answer this part of my questions:
Clapton has been a respected guitarist among the best of the Blues and Rock guitar playing community for decades. It is the nobodies who have never played with anyone except their highschool buddies that tend to criticize his playing. What has that got to do with McDonalds? Also, I forgot to mention Jimi Hendrix as one of the people who enjoyed jamming with Clapton. I could add a lot more guitarists to that list, but you get the idea. |
...' I'm not wholly off the deep end with the conspiracy theorists and racists either'...
Pardon my ignorance as I live in a country where there is just one race, but I always thoght that beeing a 'racists' meens that you do not like the presence or existance of other races or that you think that you are somehow 'better' than the others. I have seen Clapton playing with many other different folks, so I guess he does not fit in that category or that word (racist) has some other meaning that I do not fully know yet?. On the other hand, calling somebody a 'conspiricy theorist' just because he has different personal experince (his words on vaccine are based on his condition after he took one) and despite many similar claims from many other people or even after published Pfeizer data which shows many registered death and heavy conseqences of their 'medicine' is just plain dumb, but above all, rude. Such talk should not be present in any decent comunication between civilised men or even on forums despite the fact that some people obviously take advantage and shelter behind anonymity of their comuter keyboards Still I find such behaviour despicable, even in this form. |
The watch referenced in the link above has that estimated price because it’s a possibly unique Rolex of iconic design. Clapton’s ownership isn’t adding much to the price, after 20 years Separately, but relatedly, the watch market has gone bananas in the last 24 months Clapton does collect Patek Philippe watches, often built for him with customized dials (in great taste). These he sells from time to time, with the proceeds going to charitable causes. These pieces are expensive both because of the customized dials (one has to be a great customer for Patek to customize a dial, and so these variation are often unique) and because directly from Clapton’s collection - these customized Clapton pieces, eventually sold for charity, are a “thing” in their own right and have been for a long time (Only a strict Marxist thinks anything has intrinsic value, so who cares how people spend their money?) Just a comment from the peanut gallery…. |
@tomcy6 You didn’t read or understand my post. For you to play this brain-dead, bully style of argument-making, badgering me about playing with famous people, or how many “blues festivals” 😂 I’ve played, it’s unseemly. If I had 50 platinum records, this makes my opinion more valid? Again, try to avoid brazen thinking fallacies in your argument. Appeals to numbers ain’t gonna cut it. You don’t know anything about me, how good I am, nothing. You think only people with commercial success can have an opinion. In a world of Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton, and Justin Bieber…no, I don’t believe one’s commercial success gives their opinion more validity. But good try. |
@tylermunns You either don’t understand my question or don’t have an answer for it that you want to share. Either way, I think we’ve said all we need to say.
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I will change the subject matter from "racism" and " conspiracy" and other problems which are way over our heads, because geopolitic and consciousness history is more complex than audio anyway, and audio is not understood in many audio thread, people arguing mainly about gear instead of thinking about acoustic and psycho-acoustic... I will change the subject matter to acousic/music and prime number theory with a riddle linked to Riemann Zeta problem and music... 😁😊😎😉 This is my facorite music piece... This will mute those who see only ONE conspiracy everywhere and those who pretend that there is none anywhere....
«Each race being superior to all others by definition, racism is everywhere and nowhere like the center of the Pascal circle»-Groucho Marx explaining racism with geometry |
@djones51 + 1 |
Just to clarify, I'm not advocating that Clapton's shortcomings should be excused or overlooked because he's a famed musician, merely pointing out that nearly everything in this world is a mixture of opposites or put another way, deeply paradoxical. That music you posted does not merely resonate in the ear but in the entire body nervous system and still more subtle aspects. It's about as far from "ear candy" as can be imagined!
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I am glad that you catch it immediately... This is not so much music than rythm of the cosmos awaking our body/brain/consciousness... But wait what Pythagorus said about music of the spheres? My deepest respect to you....
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I am gald you catch it immediately.... Ostad Elahi play around "motivic rythms" to awake us, he does not play "music"... It is not esthetical, like a drop from a plane without parachute over a volcano is not an esthetical experience but first an existential one... Mathematics which could be for sure an esthetical experience are also and mainly an existential abyss... My deepest respect to you...
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@tablejockey: You are so right about Redd Volkaert (for those who don't know, Redd took Roy Nichols' place in Merle Haggard's band after Roy's passing, and won a Grammy in the 2000's for best instrumental performance). A bassist partner of mine and I drove to Austin in 2008 to look for a house to buy (we were going to hire ourselves out as a rhythm section to all the singer/songwriters in that town), and after checking into the motel went to a bar on 6th Street for a beer. There were a coupla amps and a drumset on the bar's small low stage, but no band playing. Turns out they were on break, and when they returned and the guitarist stepped on up who did we see? None other than Redd! A world-class guitarist, playing at a local bar when he wasn't on the road with Merle. That's a real musician. Another Telecaster great is (or rather was) Danny Gatton, whom Vince Gill nicknamed "The Humbler". OMG what a player! Another is a guy who was a bandmate with Danny when they both lived in Virginia, Evan Johns (who did three albums for Rykodisc, and a bunch on smaller labels) I did an album with Evan in the late-90's in Atlanta (entitled Moontan), and during recording Evan told me Danny was the best musician he ever worked with. Danny never came West, so I never saw/heard him live. Evan's dead now too. And how about Kenny Vaughan? He's been playing in Marty Stuart's band The Fabulous Superlatives for years now, but I first saw him live when he was in Lucinda Williams' road band. I saw/heard Al Anderson playing in NRBQ a coupla times, another favorite Tele player of mine. He left the band to concentrate on songwriting, lives in Nashville now. When it comes to the Strat, we have to start with Richard Thompson (after Ry Cooder, of course ;-) ! But back to watches. I was in the band of a singer/songwriter who insisted no one wear a watch on stage. He wanted he and his band to look as far removed from everyday normal life as possible. Hey, the songwriter gets to write the rules ;-) . |
Redd is a down-the street guy, as is Bill Kirchen, both superb players and entertainers. The Continental Cafe is one spot among many where they play. I haven't seen David Lindley here in Austin, one of the best players I've ever encountered live. Songwriters can make money; performers as you know, may make a little, but if a song really gets covered, you are clipping coupons, as they say. |
@djones51 ...well, I'll give EC credit for recognizing a threat of sorts that I like to listen to.....;) ...opening eq is 'off' imho, but what else is I guess...😏 |
Kudos for mentioning Kenny Vaughan-- very tasty player, indeed! You neglected to mention the Hellecasters-- John Jorgensen, Will Ray and Jerry Donuahue. Their "Escape from Hollywood" CD is one of my favorites. They are not just technically adept-- they can write evocative tunes, as well, which cannot be said for all guitar slingers. And let's not forget Albert Collins or Jesse Ed Davis, while we're at it. . . or Jim Messina, for that matter, who doesn't play a lot of notes but is extremely musical and makes every note count. Venturing further afield, Ritchie Kotzen is a phenomenal player who really delivers when it comes to communicating emotion: Check out his Live in Japan video:
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@stuatk: The Hellecasters! I have their Escape From Hollywood album (the CD booklet includes this line: "Dedicated to the memory of Danny Gatton 1945-1994"), and saw them live in the 90's. Three masters of the Telecaster, on stage together. Jorgensen was also a member of a favorite group on mine, The Desert Rose Band (with Chris Hillman and Herb Pedersen, themselves mighty fine musicians, singers, and songwriters). I've been a fan of Bill Kirchen since hearing him on Commander Cody's debut album. Saw them live at Winterland (or was it The Fillmore?), a great band. The West Virginia Creeper was on pedal steel that night, though he ended up getting booted out of the band (I played a gig with him in the mid-70's. He had a drinking problem). David Lindley's first few albums are amazing, and live he is even better. Surprisingly loud, too. He plays with much more sustain than most Tele players, as does Cooder. It's the Blues thing. My mates and I were really into Taj Mahal's debut, where we first heard Jesse Ed Davis. I'm currently on the search for Davis' debut album on LP. I was unaware until recently of how involved he was with the George Harrison, John Lennon, Eric Clapton crowd. Davis played on a favorite Dylan song of mine "Watching The River Flow", and Jackson Browne's "Doctor My Eyes". Guitarists with that kind of talent and taste are rather rare. Too many guitarists are imo show-offs, sacrificing musicality at the alter of technique..Drummers, too. Real glad to see there are others of my stripe here! |
Great story bdp24. Yes to Danny Gatton. I play an early 90's Antholgy 2 CD now and then. Storied player. The 50's country, R/R and fringe Tele players up to the Beck/Page era are the ones who really made the Tele otherworldly. Big respect to all the Telecaster players. The Telecaster is the Timex of Electric Guitars? I made a note to follow up on the Clapton Daytona, which goes to bid in May. Really curious if bidding reaches anticipated value. That is a comfortable retirement IRA amount!
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I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments about "show offs", which is a syndrome that appears to affect mostly Rock players. There are Black Soul/R&B Tele players we are surely failing to list, here. The Tele was a favorite (preferably with dead strings) in these genres. Someone out there must be knowledgeable in this arena. Of course, we've not mentioned Steve Cropper, James Burton, Roy Nichols and Roy Buchanan. And, Robben Ford has performed and recorded for many years with a Tele. Moving to Jazz, let's not omit the masterful Ted Greene. Back in the mid 70'S, I was very frustrated, trying to play S. Wonder tunes from "songbooks". The guitar chord diagrams rarely sounded right, so out of desperation, I began laboriously transposing the piano voicings to guitar. Around the same time, I bought a copy of Ted Greene's "Chord Chemistry", which, among other things, helped me understand why the piano voicings sounded better. I started learning chord formulas and how to build chords from scales. He was a monster chord melody player as well as a fine teacher. FYI, Jesse Ed Davis' solo albums were, at one time, reissued on CD.
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Three points: 1 - Eric Clapton is a great blues guitarist. He was on top a very long time for good reason 2 - Eric Clapton is also aging gracelessly and saying dumbass stuff about vaccines in particular. If you go back and look for it, he always said dumbass stuff, including racist and antisemetic stuff. Not entirely unprecedented for a mid-to-lower class Brit of his vintage, but still 3 - I have a longtime fascination with wristwatches. Collect American watches from the '30s-'80s for decades, still have ~175 or so. Later on got deep into larger/more expensive Swiss watches, though I'm not rich enough to totally plunge there. Timepieces are fascinating little machines that combine aesthetics and detailed engineering. I've pretty much stopped with watches, but every now and then that beast wants to get out again. I'm particularly drawn to the largest & most expensive vintage Panerai watches. |
@stuartk +1 on James Burton. Glen Campbell’s massive overall talent often overshadows the fact that , if he wants to, he can play as well as anybody. Jerry Reed holds his own on a YouTube vid with Chet Atkins, which is a remarkable feat. I abhor modern “country” music, but the average session player on these tracks could play circles around just about anybody. Brad Paisley is a recording artist in this milieu who is an unbelievably great guitar player. |
"1 - Eric Clapton is a great blues guitarist. He was on top a very long time for good reason 2 - Eric Clapton is also aging gracelessly and saying dumbass stuff about vaccines in particular. If you go back and look for it, he always said dumbass stuff, including racist and anti-Semitic stuff. Not entirely unprecedented for a mid-to-lower class Brit of his vintage, but still" All true. Each listener must make up their own mind regarding how to regard these contradictions. Just because someone can wield a brush, pen, marble chisel or guitar pick doesn't mean they are also of the highest moral caliber. And let's recognize that as fans, we are complicit in placing our favorite artists on pedestals, whether or not they belong there. (Same applies to sports). Perhaps one useful perspective is one expressed by Dylan, N. Young and Keith Richard-- that the artist is not so much a creator as a conduit. |
@stuartk Indeed, which is why I said, “the average session player on these tracks could play circles around just about anybody,” and then qualified Brad Paisley as a “recording artist,” as he is as good as the session players. |
@stuartk: For me, the Telecaster starts with James Burton. He made a huge impression on the very young me, smiling as he stood behind Ricky Nelson on The Ozzie & Harriet TV show. His solo on Ricky's "Young World" is a favorite of mine, and George Harrison's solo on "Nowhere Man" sounds like it was modeled on the YW solo. Steve Cropper was the second Tele player for me, his playing on "Green Onions" as good as it gets (good songwriter, too). I had that song as the ring tone on my cell phone for years. It always got a great reception from those who heard it playing on my phone in public. ;-) As for Brad Paisley: As talented as he is, I have to admit I have mixed feelings about his playing. I take very seriously the notion of the musician's priorities as being in service to first the song, second the singer, third the ensemble, and lastly his instrument. I'm not sure Brad sees things that way. It's interesting how the guitar a guy has in his hands affects his playing. For years Dave Edmunds was an ES335 player (he has two dot-neck 58's!), and when he switched to a Tele it just wasn't the same. I witnessed that with Bill Pitcock IV (Dwight Twilley's guitarist) too. I lived in San Jose when Robben Ford moved south (from very northern California) with his brothers, stopping in town for a coupla years and playing around the Bay Area. The bassist in my senior year High School band joined The Charles Ford Band (named after the boys father) for a while, so I saw Robben live a lot. All the San Jose guitarists had to re-evaluate their playing after seeing Robben live ;-) . He worked with Charlie Musslehite for a while, playing a 335 back then. Next thing I knew he had moved to L.A. and was playing with Joni Mitchell, then Miles Davis. All it takes is talent.
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I never saw James Burton on TV-- my first astonishing exposure was on the song "For No One" on Emmy Lou Harris' "Pieces of the Sky" album. At that point, I had absolutely no idea that a "Country" player could play in such a "jazzy" manner, my only point of reference for Country playing being Roy Buchanan. I can see your point about Paisley, BTW. Steve Cropper is one of those players who doesn't play a lot of notes. . . and doesn't need to, as everything he plays just sounds right. Cornell Dupree is one of the great R&B tele players I was trying to think of, while we're on this genre. Robben Ford. . . everyone talks about his chops. What about his ears? ? ? Taking over from Larry Carlton with J. Mitchell. . . how many could step into those shoes? I'm hoping the next J. Mitchell box set will include unreleased live performances from the "Miles of Aisles" tour she did with Robben and the LA Express. I saw Robben on the Tiger Walk tour and enjoyed that material very much. I saw him later at at casino in the Tahoe area and the constant screaming by a highly inebriated crowd ruined that show for me. I left as three cops were attempting to wrestle some guy to the ground who was freaking out on who-knows-what substance. Bad scene. Can't imagine trying to play to that sort of audience! And those who've been summoned by Miles belong to a very elite club. . . Shorter, Carter, Holland, Corea, McLaughlin, Jarrett, DeJohnette, Coleman, Hancock, Scofield, Williams, Garrett, Bartz, etc.
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+1 stuartk, Rodney’s been doing his best work the last 20 years. My favorites are: The Houston Kid Fate’s Right Hand Close Ties Acoustic Classics Triage Willie’s "The Willie Nelson Family" is very good if you enjoy country gospel. It's not Willie & Family, it's his kids and Sister Bobbie, RIP. |
"As talented as he is, I have to admit I have mixed feelings about his playing. I take very seriously the notion of the musician’s priorities as being in service to first the song, second the singer, third the ensemble, and lastly his instrument. I’m not sure Brad sees things that way." bdp24- IMO Brad is more of an "entertainer" that happens to play guitar. "I saw Robben on the Tiger Walk tour and enjoyed that material very much. " stuartk- I bought the CD when it was released. Still play it now and then. While I do like the album, wasn’t compelled to listen to his other work. |
@bdp24 IMO, one example of a player who is capable of doing all the showy “whootly-whootly” wankery but chooses to instead be only in service of the song is Lindsey Buckingham. |
@tomcy6: Rodney’s The Houston Kid is as good an album as I have ever heard, in my Top 10 of all time. He wrote an accompanying book, Chinaberry Sidewalks, which is well worth reading. He served as Emmylou’s band leader/harmony singer for a while, a role now played by another fave of mine, Buddy Miller. Buddy is a great guitarist, singer, producer, and picker of material. Buddy’s wife and musical collaborator Julie is just wonderful, an Angel sent from Heaven. Buddy and Julie have done a couple of albums together, and he has of course also produced her solo work. I also have the albums she did when she was a Contemporary Christian artist (one album produced by Buddy), the world she and Buddy came to the secure world from. I really need to see Emmylou and Buddy live together, but though they have appeared at the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival in San Francisco (my old friends who still live in San Jose/Cupertino attend those shows), they don’t come up to the Northwest, where I now reside. |
"Tiger Walk" is fairly unique in Ford's output. Although I enjoy the the material very much, I can't listen to it because of the production values. IMO, the rhythm section is so soul-less and robotic, they needn't have used real musicians. There is a live in Paris DVD I like much better that features some of the same tunes. I read and enjoyed "Chinaberry Sidewalks" very much. You mention the Millers. Let's not forget Gurf Morlix, who made stellar contributions to Lucinda Williams' early albums . . another Tele player! I'm wondering how you made the adjustment from CA to the Pacific Northwest. We lived in Eugene for 6 years and never were able to get used to the gloom. This followed 10 years in Maine in which the weather was rarely an issue. At least those New England winters include plenty of sunny days. |
"the rhythm section is so soul-less and robotic, they needn't have used real musicians." stuartk- I think you described the overall vibe of the album. Music for the sake of music- in background while doing chores in the house. Guitarists for Miles in pecking order John McLaughlin, John Scofield with, Mike Stern/Robben Ford a toss up. |
I found this list of miles sidemen: http://webx.ubi.pt/~hgil/utils/Miles.Davis/MD_Legacy.html . . all in all, a pretty amazing collection of players.
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