Fuse Direction for Pass Labs Amp and Preamp

Ignore the idiot posters here.

Mirror, dude.

This is gold, Jerry! GOLD!

jasonbourne52

@mitchb : I see you have drunk the fuser Kool Aid! How can you believe this nonsense that a small piece of wire - which does not carry a music signal - can somehow change the character of a component - and cost hundreds! Enlighten me!

Ditto for power cables, with two exceptions. They can supply the needed current and the quality of shielding that encases the cable to contain mains noise.

One of the things about this hobby is you can extrapolate things to the ridiculous. Fuse direction is one of them. How do you know that by switching the fuse it is the metallurgy of the fuse with respect to the AC source that makes it sound different? Maybe it's the fuse holder. If you look at a fuse holder there are two connections -- one on the end and one on the side. There is no standard (or electrical difference) which connection is from the power inlet and which connection is to the transformer. Some manufacturers wire the inlet to the side and the outlet to the end and some do it the other way. So when you change the fuse direction and hear a difference, maybe it's the way it's oriented in the holder and that is why other people hear it differently or hear a difference with the same fuse turned around in different components.

I recall a conversation I had with Ken Stevens of CAT who said if you don't have the time or patience to evaluate a tweak... then save your money.

  

It didn't take long before the trolls, name dropping and appeals to authority came up. They make very poor substitutes for actually trying them. 

All the best,
Nonoise

The fuse needs go in correctly or it will blow! If you put the fuse in backwards it will suck!

It’s funny that us audiophiles sometimes believe we understand electronics better than electrical engineers do. If DCS, Pass, and other good brands ship their products with standard cables and fuses - shouldn’t we be able to reject the urge to upgrade those?

It’s not a question of truth, it’s a question of weather you keep up with what the heck is really going on. Haven’t you seen great strides in cables alone or are you STUCK in the 1800s. It makes no difference to (I suggest) millions that can and do hear a vast improvement over the last 40 years.

A FUSE in a valve amp that cold starts, may NEVER recover or cool enough to remove the resistance and chaos a bending and heaving thermal wire is offering from a stock fuse. NOT SO in a lot of after market fuses. That bit of thermal overheat I can hear for over an hour in most of my valve amps. The summer time they never recover. I bypass the fuse in the summer because of that reason. I’ve never lost a valve amp or SS amp by doing so.. 50 years. and 100s of amps. The fuse protect the equipment ONLY. Most mechanics know what fuses are. They are the point of preferred failure, certainly not a way to hotrod something.

None the less saying something is hogwash, is hogwash especially when it comes to cables and wire direction. It’s simple, cables sound and work differently in one direction than the other. The reason to condition cabling the direction it is pushed through the dies. It not only matters, it’s the difference weather I buy your STUFF or not.

Ted Denny hasn’t said a word, yet you bring up his products as if YOU tried them. I’d really doubt that one.. Great products at an astronomical price. Still great products with a FULL money back guarantee. There is NO reason for anyone to complain about that.. You don’t KNOW about a product so you get to slam it. No!

So we are clear I’ve NEVER paid more than 200.00 for the best cables on earth, or over 40 dollars for a fuse. That 40 dollar fuse was well dampened with almost instant thermal transfer. In other words, it NEVER had to recover, because it NEVER got hot..

It would be kind of silly to imply a 5 cent piece of thermal wire made no difference, you ever put a radial tire on backwards? Direction matters.. Even crazy GK new that.

Once you're done buying your fuse, I have a bridge to sell you? You can only drive in the direction of the letters on the bridge.

@atmasphere +1

Thank you for speaking truth to these myths that continue to be perpetuated by companies like Synergistic Research.  I don't know how people that own companies like that sleep at night.  Ted Denney and the My Pillow Guy are one in the same.

BTW another mechanic loaned me the book, we're both into stereo equipment. He's almost 70. Western Electric nutter. AC/DC speakers.

I’m really surprised to read atmasphere say that a fuse can’t have a preferred direction. That is also telling me you don’t look at the wire and how it’s pushed through the dies before soldering them in a preferred direction. Is that right? You don't care which direction the wire is soldered in? I do! 

Second if a Rectifier tube can have such a great affect on a valve amp, what makes people think a fuse, power cable, wall outlet won’t. Not only is there a difference in the sound, there is a reason why. The properties of two different end caps and the way the thermal filament is constructed along with how it was pushed through the dies. AND there is no direction?

Oh YES there is.

It’s simple AC moves in a direction towards the source, period. When it gets there it produces heat if it’s used and it’s moving in that direction because it is being used. The chicken or the egg. Heat is the result of use.. It’s certainly not hot to the tough at the receptacle is it? NO it’s hot where it’s working or producing heat.

You build amps I build cables and equipment. We even have direction on our inline DC fuses.. AC on the outside, DC on the inside.. That’s what is preached by most mechanics.

No direction? WOW! I thought that was figured out 30 years ago, from the 1800 old tech teaching. Things change. I’m actually reading the EE 2020 addition updates, Nano arcing and the quantum effects, Chip mortality # 1 killer, nano arcing and how alloy treatment prevents it. No bare hands anymore. The acid in your hand causes issues in the solder. Hand acids can actually etch a bearing face and cause a failure.

Most of the kooky, loopy stuff audiophile have been saying for 30 years is published reading for Electrical Engineers NOW to keep up.

I rewired two sets of Cary MB. Great result. I’ve seen 30-35 amps redone in our little group. Brian Cheney from VMPS was one. James B, did the work before they both passed in 2012. Cool tea for me.. I'm off work..

Lets not forget the biggest myth of all East coast, West coast, sound. LOL 😎

 

Mike

Have fun! 🙃

You never owned Bose 901s or have read why Amar Bose designed them that way, I'm guessing.

@russ69 This is such a great example of what I'm talking about (the myth bit)!

I'll put it to you this way: If someone comes up with a way to get home stereo electronics to favor a certain genre of music, they will be a millionaire overnight. There really isn't any way to do it (if you feel I'm incorrect about this, by all means, please get out there and show the rest of us your circuit or speaker design!!). What makes a speaker (or amp, cartridge, cable, etc.) good for one genre makes it good for another since we humans uses the same range of frequencies for music regardless of what the nature of the music.

Bose designed the 901 to mimic the concert hall, which might suggest to some that its better at classical music. It isn't. I regard it as a failure (insofar as accurate musical reproduction in the home is concerned; if meant to make money it seemed to be successful at that); at the very least there should have been more directly radiated information. The understanding of how the ear processes late delayed information was less understood back in the 1960s (if delayed about 10mS or more, the ear can use the rear-firing information for echo location, thus making the center fill more palpable; to do that the rear of the speaker needs to be at least 5 feet from the wall of the speaker behind it) when the speaker was designed.

 

Dear @mitchb : SR owner is a marketing " genius ". I own SR and other bs high-end fuses.

" People in fact do hear a significant difference between stock fuses and high end fuses. "

Of course we " hear " that differences because we already spend a lot of money and we " want " to " hear differences " where it can’t be differences at all.

Don’t spend your money but invest with for something that really can improve the quality room/system performance levels as room treatment.

 

Anyway, do what you think is the best for you.

 

" I redid the crossovers with high end parts "

 

that’s exactly as the SR fuses because does not exist " crossover high end parts ", only bs really inferior expensive parts for we audiophiles eager to go with. We customers are the " bu$ine$$ " in the audio world, especially for after market tweaks items.

 

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

the idea that a certain speaker or amplifier can sound favor a certain genre of music.

You never owned Bose 901s or have read why Amar Bose designed them that way, I'm guessing.

This is living proof of zombie threads coming back to life. Just try it both ways as there are no shortcuts and if and when you hear a difference, go with the way that sounds best to you.

All the best,
Nonoise

@atmasphere,

+1 Well said 😎

I am thinking that the direction should be the lettering left to right with the beginning of the lettering facing out of the amp and the end of the lettering facing into the amp. Does this sound right?

@mitchb 

Not unless the fuses are in a DC circuit, and somehow have better conductivity in one direction rather than the other!

What people hear when they swap fuse direction isn't the fuse having 'directional' properties! Its a combination of the fit of the fuse in its holder (resulting in a lower voltage drop across the fuseholder) and expectation bias. The former is measurable (and slight), the latter is not.

It is impossible for a fuse to have a directional property in an AC circuit! That would cause it to favor one half of the AC power waveform and not the other- this would cause the fuse to heat up, since in the non-favored direction its resistance would be higher. Ohm's Law dictates this.

This would cause the fuse to heat up and fail, possibly within seconds of operation.

This statement is false:

Why a little wire makes such a dramatic difference I don’t know but it does. It has been proven by people’s experience. There are those who feel power products like cables and connectors don’t make a difference but they do. Not always positive I admit as everything is system dependent.

You can measure voltage drops across power cords and that can affect power amps that draw a lot of current (IOW they obey Ohm's Law). But its quite incorrect to say that this aspect of fuses is 'proven'. Its clearly not; I explained why. Further, I presented the explanation of why its actually impossible.

There are a lot of myths in audio, for example the idea that a certain speaker or amplifier can sound favor a certain genre of music. These myths exist in a viral form and infect in a way not unlike actual viruses. Once you disabuse yourself of them, you'll find that you can make greater progress on the sound of your system.

My situation is that I am doing 4 components at the same time. Technically I should do one at a time and swap the fuse to hear which works best but I was hoping to just install the 4 fuses at the same time. Someone sent me a diagram in a different forum which shows which way the direction of the fuse should go. I will follow the diagram sent to me as a guide.

I can tell you that Lloyd Walker suggested that I try the fuse both ways in my Walker Motor Drive to see which direction I preferred.  He could hear a difference, but I could not.  I'd suggest that you follow Lloyd's advice and see if you have a preference..

Jason
How you feel about fuses now people felt about power cables 25 years ago. People in fact do hear a significant difference between stock fuses and high end fuses. Why a little wire makes such a dramatic difference I don’t know but it does. It has been proven by people’s experience. There are those who feel power products like cables and connectors don’t make a difference but they do. Not always positive I admit as everything is system dependent.

@mitchb : I see you have drunk the fuser Kool Aid! How can you believe this nonsense that a small piece of wire - which does not carry a music signal - can somehow change the character of a component - and cost hundreds! Enlighten me!