Hi Paul, yes it is long to burn NCF, but you would hear improvement and the signature in the beginning. I also try the Furutech Wall Plate, on a Gold Furutech receptacle, and the result is amazing, it calms the vibrations and there is more informations discovered. I also change the speaker binding post, with Furutech Rodium, and I am realy happy of the result also. Happy listening.
Furutech GTX NCF receptical break in, how long
Bought NCF with 6 day burn from seller. I have it burning in last 5 days on 2 cheap power bars with old desk top towers, fans, TiVo box, home theater amps. My amp and Preamp, phono stage and CD player are all tube so I don't use them. Ran system on outlet tonight and no bass, bright, sounds bad. First day with outlet it sounded very nice. Any owners of rhodium outlets can tell me what I'm in for time wise, or what to expect sound wise in next couple weeks, thanks
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Today makes 3 weeks, I put them back on 24/7 couple days ago and I still think they need more time. Highs are nice but the bass and fullness is lacking, I may be around 450 hours. Has anybody had problems with bass this far in breakin process? Did anyone find even with 1000 or more hrs or fully broken in bass was not as full or big as before adding NCF? Maybe tighter bass but not as big or full. This is a bad ride trying to break in these little outlets. |
I dunno guys I have at least 14 of the NCF outlets and some NCF inlets and I don’t recall having any problems with them from the start. I guess they did get better with time, I don’t remember. I use all Cerious Matrix cables so perhaps they lessened the break in variations that others have noted. Paul, are you sure you did not reverse wire the load and neutral? ozzy |
I don't believe they are reversed. I have black to brass screws. I may check for piece of mind. It's not there is no bass just not as before outlet install. I would think 450 hours would be sufficient time, but what do I know never used rhodium before. I'll flip some power cord around to see if there is a change. Only though is years ago I reconfigured system and cables were pulled and system was not used for 3 or 4 days. It took a couple days of running system to come back way it sounded before. Maybe I'm not using enough current for breakin due to no solid state amps to run 24/7 playing music. I'm not ready to give up yet because highs are better than I've ever heard in this system. |
We are heading to beach for day, was going to keep it on burn in. I couldn't handle not trying if it did anything overnight before I left. I'll be damn it's full and big again. Last night you couldn't even hear the kick drum and was way over shadowed with highs. You can fell the bass pressure in the room now lows and highs have balance. This thing swings soniclly during breakin more than anything I've tried while in this hobby. All I can do is cross my fingers and try to be patient if things go bad again. It's back on breakin items again while I'm gone. |
audiolab, I do, 40 years and roller coaster ride helped me feel I'm not nuts. What I don't understand is how so many people can have such a different experience. Some 200, 500 to 700 hours and ozzy never heard a problem from the beginning. I don't doubt anyone's findings. Only thing I do know is I hear things that have no explanation why and have to explain to a friends wife tonight why I have 2 old computer towers 3 fans, 2 little LCD Tv's facing the wall, an old wii, 2 receivers running full blast in a music room. She thinks I'm nuts! But when the music is playing right it's all worth it, like it is right now. Hope it stays this way and breakin is over, but it may sound like a big transistor radio tomorrow who knows. |
Just coming back after 10 days out of town. I may have to revise my original estimate of 200-240 hours burn in. I have just done a burn in on new components and a brand spanking new receiver. Receiver has a fully burned-in Furutech fuse. The power cord and speaker cable are well used Audioquest stuff. However, the speaker terminations are NEW Fureutech rhodium spades/bananas. The power cord also has NEW Furutech Rhodium IEC/Male connectors. At about 200-250 hours it was still going up and down with changes. Today, it's at about 420 or so hours. It is calmed down, but I still think the system has a slight hard edge to it. This was the final touches in my mom's system and I had to leave to come home again. lol. In the end, I think it depends on how much resolution the system has. If you are working with a very warm sounding system, these burn-in exercises may not affect you quite as much. However, with a very revealing system, you could be in for a long term burn-in experience. Though, Rhodium is the way to go if you want the best in resolution. |
@ paulcreed, I believe auxinput nailed it on the head with this, quote- In the end, I think it depends on how much resolution the system has. If you are working with a very warm sounding system, these burn-in exercises may not affect you quite as much. However, with a very revealing system, you could be in for a long term burn-in experience. Though, Rhodium is the way to go if you want the best in resolution. Personally I run my tube/solid state hybrid digital player with a $5,500.00 power cord that has oyaida plugs on it straight to the amplifier, so yes, absolutely, it has to do with resolution of any given system. |
All was well Sunday, Monday. Last night bass was thin highs unlistenable. Didn't spend much time listening just enough to see what's going on last few nights My system is slight on warm side of neutral. I have not stopped burn in. I'm not sure what's going on but I'm to the point of boxing everything and dropping it off at Goodwill. I'm wondering if a furutech gold added to the mix may help in the long run. |
@ paulcreed, Been awhile, need to mention that you need to run system 12 hrs and then turn off at night, do process all over again each day, this needs to be done after 450 hrs, be patient my friend, I would like for you to keep me informed here with progress, remember, the extended high’s come in at 700 hrs like a brick up side the head, believe me, you will know when the treble detail kicks in. |
Will do audiolab, had some time to kill on road this morning and called furutech dealer I bought from. He said at least 6 week burnin and it is normal for it to swing like this even with 450 to 500 hours. Loss of bass etched highs. Last night the highs were almost the worst I've heard during this process, like broken glass. He also mentioned these outlets are very system dependent on how they react. He builds his statement power conditioners with these NCF's outlets so he has to have some experience and feed back from customers. Will try 12 and 12, what a crazy hobby! |
What do you think is actually happening during this "burn in" process that would explain the purported sound changes? Outside audiophile lore, I've never heard any electrician or electrical engineer (who isn't selling high end audio products) say any receptacles need "burn in" for any reason. So I'm wondering what the actual technical reason would be for this "burn in" phenomenon and why it would alter sound. (In my own experience, I've never heard a difference whether I've changed the outlets where my equipment was plugged in, including moving to a new dedicated outlet, or whether it's plugged in to my Furman power conditioner/bar). |
Ah, the curious, probing mind of the audio skeptic. Why do receptacles need burn in? Why do cables need burn in? Why do fuses need burn in? Why do capacitors need burn in? Why does contact enhancer need burn in? Why, why, why?! Sweet mystery of life. Why do the stars go on shining? Why do the birds go on singing? 🤡 |
Assuming for the sake of argument there is such a thing as break-in for wall receptacles, capacitors, fuses and such audiophile niceties how on Earth can someone, especially the sort of obsessive compulsive perfectionist that would indulge in these sorts of things possibly be able to keep track of his sound from day to day, day to night, week to week, in good weather and bad, even if he made no changes to his system, added no new tweaks, etc., which would be very difficult to swallow given their obsessiveness. Somehow I can’t imagine audiophiles sitting around for days or even weeks on end checking the sound out and watching the paint on the walls peel. There’s not enough time! There’s work to be done. Hel-loo! If you aren’t bothered sitting around doing nothing for days or weeks at a time you don’t understand the problem. Do I believe it when someone says it takes 8 weeks for a thing to break in or even 200 hours through experience? Well, probably not. |
Ah, the curious, probing mind of the audio skeptic. Why do receptacles need burn in? Why do cables need burn in? Why do fuses need burn in? Why do capacitors need burn in? Why does contact enhancer need burn in? Why, why, why?! Sweet mystery of life. Why do the stars go on shining? Why do the birds go on singing? Yes, what a terribly strange thing to wonder why and ask for explanations and evidence, instead of just taking things on faith and singing hallelujah with the choir. How’s your cult going geoff? Are your members numbering above "1" yet? ;-) |
amg56 If you listened to your HiFi "break in" over a period of weeks and you listened to it daily, which most of you profess to do, the change in sound daily would be so small you wouldn’t notice. By that stage the system componentry will have begun to degrade so it all amounts to BS anyway. >>>I simply spray Geritol on all the componentry from time to time. I find that keeps them young and feeling fresh. |
jetter "I can’t imagine audiophiles sitting around for days or even weeks on end checking the sound out and watching the paint on the walls peel." You are incorrect, once more, they are not watching the paint on the walls peel. >>>>>Or perhaps, like yourself, they’re sniffing the paint fumes. Who knows for sure? |
prof geoffkait “Ah, the curious, probing mind of the audio skeptic. Why do receptacles need burn in? Why do cables need burn in? Why do fuses need burn in? Why do capacitors need burn in? Why does contact enhancer need burn in? Why, why, why?! Sweet mystery of life. Why do the stars go on shining? Why do the birds go on singing?” Yes, what a terribly strange thing to wonder why and ask for explanations and evidence, instead of just taking things on faith and singing hallelujah with the choir. >>>>What’s strange is the incessant longwinded barrage of self satisfied pseudo skepticism and anti tweak rhetoric spewed out. What makes it even creepier, if possible, is your confession that tweaks don’t really do anything in your system. How’s your cult going geoff? Are your members numbering above "1" yet? ;-) >>>In case you weren’t paying attention, Professor, I am one of the biggest sellers and have the most positive feedback, on the way to 4,000, thank you very much, extant on Audiogon. Your wit not withstanding. Well half of one, anyway. I’ll have to start calling you The Absent Minded Professor. |
On behalf of myself, and probably an exceedingly high percentage of both the Agon vocal and silent majority, I would like to mention that the most amazing thing I have read in all my 15 to 20 years on Audiogon, is that you have close to 4,000 positives. You don't have to confess, but if you do you will feel a lot better, your conscience cleansed. Come on tell us, you found a way to hack the feedback system? |
Geoff, I mean no disrespect, but paint peeling off walls, Geritol, I don't get it. A lot of words but not much content. Maybe I missed something, if so sorry. I'm a 55 year old drummer and guitar player since age of 12. I own Gretch round badge, stop sign badge, Ludwig classic, Fibes Austin Jasper shells,DW, zildjian A's, K's and over 20 snare drums. Martin D28, Hummingbird, Strat ,les Paul, SG, Telecaster and spend time in studios. All these instruments have there own sound. In my system I can hear the brand of instrument that was chosen for the recording if I am familiar with it. Most of the time breaking in this outlet I can't tell the difference between an A or K cymbal. I'm at 4 weeks running through a Running Springs Audio Dmitri with a RSA HZ power cord from wall to RSA. Maybe when breaking in power related products the type of power conditioner used is a big factor why mileage varies.My system has been the same for years. I Just listen to music not the system. Geoff you brag about selling so much gear are you never happy with your system. |
paulcreed Geoff you brag about selling so much gear are you never happy with your system. I wasn’t really bragging, I was responding to a pseudo skeptic who was being fresh. I am actually rather humble about it, it’s the first time I ever mentioned it in all these years. Am I ever happy with my system? Do you mean happy like a contented cow happy? 🐄 Happy like a clown happy? 🤡 |
Most people don't listen to music actively. a quote I remember from an old Stereophile mag, "Most people like the idea of music." Have others experienced this: in the general admission seating at outdoor concerts, most people are talking throughout the show so that there's a constant buzz in the air? When did this begin to happen and why? |
Like evolution being a fact, some equipment,cables, fuses, etc need time to break in. Based on 15 years of listening, Its obvious to my ear that this is true. And, are you sitting down, my stereo sounds better after the circuitry has warmed up for a 1/2 hour or so. And still more madness. Ready for this one, get the padded room available, it sounds better later at night then the rest of the day. To all you snake oilers, there's is more in heaven and earth than is dreampt of in your philosophy. Electro-magnetism, she is a strange and wonderful mistress |
Hallo, Paulcreed, I must admit I have opened an account on Audiogon only to thank you for your posts about breaking in Furutech NCF. It is because I am experiencing much the same thing and I found so much comfort in your posts. I appreciate the experience you shared like hardly anything ever.. But my journey is not over. In fact, I’m becoming a little impatient… and paranoid ;) My system consists of a high-resolution tube amp based on KT88 power tubes (with nice Mullard NOS tubes in the preamp section), Metronome CD8 S player and Franco Serblin’s Accordo speakers (my listening room is 22 sqm and the Accordo can really give me the required slam in terms of bass, I appreciate the speakers also for the exceptional soundstage they can create even in a regular living room). Before installing Furutech’s rhodium NCF receptible, I had used Furutech’s top performance gold receptible, but just barely long enough to break it in. For the most part of the breakin period, the gold sounded closed in, not open, not resolute enough. Eventually, the sound opened up, being detailed but smooth. However, acting on my audiophilia nervosa, I replaced the gold receptible with Furutech’s NCF rhodium outlet. At the same time, I installed a Furutech FI-50M NCF plug on the power cable for the power strip (both the power cable and the power strip are Polish made, but from a recognised manufacturer). And, at the same time, I added a Furutech NCF booster to hold my new precious FI-50 firmly in the wall outlet. You might think, a hell of an upgrade! When I first played a CD (a Kari Bremnes I like to use for testing), I wasn’t sure if I was going to love my new sound, but what I heard was promising: so much more clarity, resolution! But I missed some musicality, but I thought, wait, people say things will improve.. It’s just that things got worse… Two weeks after the change, with moderate listening of 2-3 hours a day, the sound is actually worse than it has ever been, even before the installation of the new NCF outlet, FI-50 NCF plug and the NCF Booster… There’s a lot of resolution, but the sound is harsh, totally unlistenable!!! And I’m thinking to myself: what?? I’ve spent so much on the upgrade, and I’m to suffer THIS? But then I found your posts.. So I’m waiting… I’m afraid I’m actually your stalker ;) I have read carefully every sentence you wrote, and I do hope the sound of my system will improve eventually… J It's just that I have begun to doubt. Is it possible the sound can improve so much? Because what I want to hear, after about 200h of breakin, is soooo far not only from my expectations but even from before the costly Furutech upgrades.. L I’m not talking subtleties here, oh no.. Anyways, thank you for sharing your experience, I found it so helpful! And do you have any new thoughts on the subject? Are you now totally happy, in terms of Furutech, at least? ;) Peter |
serbinfan: You are experiencing a problem with making three changes to your system at the same time. I would suggest removing the Furutech NCF from your audio circuit and putting in another circuit. At this location plug something into it that uses electricity nearly 24/7. That product needs 3 months to diminish the Rhodium harshness sound. Then put it back in your audio circuit. A week latter make a final decision. You may like the gold outlet - NCF gold plug combination as much or better. David Pritchard |
Schizophrenic is the only way I can describe the NCF. There is no immediate gratification with this purchase. It's really a long bad ride but once it's over it was well worth the aggravation. I almost pulled it out of the wall and stuck it in a drawer so I could listen to music again. David is right if I had to do it again I would put it on the fridge/deep freezer and forget about it for a while. I do think if it gets hit with quick draw of high current on and off it helps but 24/7 is a must. If you make it through the break in of NCF any other component breakin will be a breeze. I had to give it 7 to 8 weeks before it was okay to listen to music and improvement begins after that. The part that got me was the first few hours it sounded fantastic came back later and sounded like trash. I just moved recently and set my system up and it sounded okay, thought maybe everything just needed to settle in but then I remembered I forgot to install NCF. Stuck it in the wall and everything was right. I realized the NCF really does make a large improvement in my system. I also own the furutech gold and there is no comparison. Hang in there it gets better I promise. |
Hey guys, just wanted to react to things that were said earlier. A system can indeed sound better at night than during the day or better one day compared to another day quite significantly. This has to do with the power itself in your region and how people are using it at the listening moment. The more power is used by the population, the less you have for your hifi, that's really a fact. Don't take my word, even in the 60's and 70's some recording engineers would prefer to record and mix-down at some moments during the week/day because they definitely heard a difference in the performance of all the analog gear involved. So basically you take a winter Saturday evening with a football match on TV and also the Foo Fighters playing in a stadium in the next city, well be ready to hear a slight change in your Hifi system. Now you take a (I don't know I'm making it up) let's say a calm Tuesday in July at 22h, It should sound better because the power available to you is just better. You will hear this effect especially with a high-quality and transparent system. I heard it here. Actually the most obvious is when my neighbours do washing machines, I slightly hear the noise itself cause its vibrating but I swear I'm missing punch and authority in the sound when they use it/them. |
leolucchesi A system can indeed sound better at night than during the day or better one day compared to another day quite significantly.This has to do with the power itself in your region and how people are using it at the listening moment. The more power is used by the population, the less you have for your hifi, that's really a fact.It may be a fact in third-world or developing countries, but certainly not in any industrialized nation, unless there is something badly wrong with your local utility. There is plenty of power to supply everyone. Quantity isn't the problem. |
Interesting thread! Thanks for posting your updates in the process. I have a Furetech GTX-D-rhodium sitting in my drawer. It was in my wall for a while; Very similar experience. I just figured not a good fit, bad synergy, etc, so I swapped back to my glorified Hubbell /PS Audio and the immediate issues went away. Maybe I should rig up a test fixture for the GTX and install it in about three months. I have noticed system variability though, and chalk it up to grid; I’m an EE but my forte is PCB design for complex embedded systems; I recall the power factor topic in a power systems class. Someone please refresh me: does power factor at the load vary with changes on the line due to OTHER loads present on the line ( that can come and go analogous to wi-Fi devices coming on/off network) or is it totally dependent only on the loads complex relationship ( reactive behavior) with the immediate incoming power? When my system goes through a period of “bass light” and lacking in its normal “punch” it feels like the amp is simply starved for current. This happens on the order of a few weeks give or take. I’ve noticed this phenomenon in every system I’ve ever put together in every location ( different houses); one time it was so bad ( at that time I had an Audio Research 100.2 amp) I thought the amp was seriously on the way out... but came back the next day and the music was back again. Bass authority, dynamic drive, and loss of presence, are the triad of characteristics that usually suffer most during these phases of audio life; This leads me to believe that power factor fluctuations from other loads impinge onto the power amp and wreak havoc when non-ideal. The amplifier’s power supply component impedance has not changed( or does it vary???), nothing else moved, etc... I have what appears to be, based on reviews and theory, an incoming power conditioner; a P.I. Audio Group UberBUSS; This device has power factor network...looking forward to hearing this in the system. Cool thread! |
