For SACD fans only

FINALLY!! Esoteric just announced that they will be coming out with a K-05XD this Spring. No pricing announced.

Update: I have not upgraded since I posted this over a year ago. PS Audio has not put their Perfectwave SACD transport on sale for $4K recently, still waiting. But $4K for the PS Audio transport (on sale), and $5.5K for the Holo Audio May DAC would put it around $10K. I think that the pricing for the K-05XD might be closer to $7.5K, but I have no idea. If it is $7.5K, then I’ll go with the Esoteric.

fred60

Thank You for the update. At this level of performance-price, take your time and choose wisely.

Happy Listening!

Another +vote for SACD fans in 2023.

Happy Listening!

You like SACDs. Why? They are not old enough to be nostalgic. I researched and researched SACDs… whenever they were a thing and waited just long enough for the market to collapse and CD players jump forward in performance as hiRez file purchase became a thing. Then, after that, streaming took the lead as higher resolution files and sound quality of streaming equaled vinyl or any other format. 
 

So, here we are. If you really like this niche then, great. I have 2,000 pristine vinyl albums and a world class turntable… although collected over the last 50 years. I try and play an album every couple days. I had an Oppo 105… I gave it away… it was from my home theater… I would never had used it in my audio system. If I was upgrading and not expecting to kick the bucket in the next couple years I would not invest in SACD. My streaming sound quality is equal to my vinyl and exceeds my CD player where high Rez files are played. Qubuz has over half a million hiRez albums… less that $14 / month… millions of albums. But if you really like SACD… go for it.

I would be willing to give the K-05XD a demo because it has full MQA unfolding and it also plays MQA discs.

MQA has improved significantly since they were called out, a year or so ago and 96khz seems to be the limit of what most recordings are truly mastered in.

Example the Steven Wilson Yes and Jethro Tull re-masters.

So if the price is right I'm sure it could be a contender as a full time DAC and occasional disc spinner.

ghdprentice

The Oppo 105 is an okay player at best. You were not experiencing the full effect of SACD.  It appears that you are content with Streaming and Vinyl.

Happy Listening!

ghdprentice

I called this post "For SACD Fans Only" for a reason.  SACD or CD playback (with the right system) will sound better than any streaming.

And this from a review of the Esoteric K-03XD ($15,000) out of my price range, but not the forthcoming K-05XD:

"Well this is something completely different. I've not had it that long and am still running it through its paces but I'm coming to the conclusion that this outperforms any turntable that I'm familiar with. And this is coming from a true dyed in the wool, buried in the analog camp kind of person. It doesn't sound like a cd/sacd player or like any turntable that I'm familiar with. It sounds like master tape. Pretty convinced now that DSD is the way to go. No streamer i have listened to and I have heard some truly great machines don't sound like this. It has changed my world view about playback systems. The fact that some fifty cent discs from a resale shop can sound phenomenal makes it a game changer. Disc after disc in my collection sound like I never heard them before. I will definitely think twice next time some limited $135.00 plus disc comes out. That's it for now and I will be listening to a bunch of Mofi sacd discs recently purchased of music I already own on Mofi One Step pressings. It should be interesting. One more thing; it deserves an additional star." Score: ******

OP,

Sorry, this is a free forum. So, renegades like me are free to offer their honest opinion, even if off topic or contrary to what the author likes.

A SACD player is a transport, streamer, and DAC in one box. Three functions. As I said… if you love the idea of discs… no problem. I have a turntable. But if sound quality is the only issue… and total cost of ownership… equipment plus content… I would look at contemporary technology. 
 

I do not offer this advise to be argumentative… but helpful. I have often been surprised the horizons opened when a paradigm bubble is popped. 

@jafant 

Thanks. I assure you I made no prognosis of SACD’s capability by using an Oppo. It was never attached to my system. I was very impressed with the capability of SACD twenty years ago with Esoteric and other brands. No question high end players sound fantastic. But today they are such a niche, and you are spending money on the internal Streamer and DAC that could be used for a more contemporary system.

But, as I said. I own an analog end that cost more than a really nice contemporary new car… but for me there is a lot of nostalgia value.

The OPPO 105 combined with the DBOB digital extractor sounds very good indeed. Light years better than the Oppo by itself.

I had for a time the Direct Steam Dac and the corresponding Transport. The sound quality combo was pretty good, but the Transport had glitchy problems. Not reading disc, etc.

ozzy

ghdprentice

"contemporary technology"?  what does that even mean?

I'm talking about using the Esoteric K-05XD (msrp $7500 or 8000) vs. the PS Audio Perfectwave SACD transport (msrp $6500) and the Holo Audio May DAC (msrp $5500) at a total cost of $12K.

There is no way any streamer or "contemporary technology" would equal either of the above choices.  I would argue that either choice above would better any turntable/cartridge under $50K.  Just like the Esoteric K-03XD.

fred60

Esoteric vs. PSA/Holo Audio May DAC, either way, you cannot go wrong.

I look forward in reading more about your purchase decision.

Happy Listening!

Fred,

I am not trying to be argumentative.

It is difficult to seriously discuss what you have said. But, first, a well chosen $50K analog leg will definitely sound way better than your Esoteric K… whatever. Second, by contemporary technology I mean an independent streamer and DAC. Well, that is highly dependent on your choices… but the combo of a transport, streamer, and DAC in a box if for a brief time is a sweet spot,.. it will not last long… or be cost effective when you have to buy music on a physical media.

Op I own Marantz SA10 sacd player, with good balance interconnect like Tyr Nordost this player will compete to less than 10k maybe more.

I went from a OPPO 105 years ago, to one of the very last 205 produced, sold it for more than double the price,  bought a Marantz 30n, loved it for awhile,  but the disc part wasn't getting much use as I started to stream more. So I sold it and bought a Sony UBP-X1100ES that plays everything,  sounds great and frees up lots of money for other streaming stuff.

The funny thing is, since I got the Sony,  I tried a few bluray audio disc, and I think they are a bigger improvement over CD than SACD. Too bad they never caught on.

@ghdprentice You’re not trying to be argumentative? I’d like to see what happens when you do try. OP states in the post title for SACD lovers. Yes, it is a free forum, but that doesn’t mean you have to derail it. There is no law preventing me from ringing my neighbors doorbell and telling them how much I hate their landscaping choices, but the general consensus in the neighborhood would be that I would be an ahole for doing so.  I generally enjoy your posts, particularly about music, but come on.

I love SACDs, have a DAC and a player that can extract and play the DSD layer in my two channel system, as well as playing them in my multichannel system. It is a rare redbook CD that comes close to them. High Resolution downloads do, however. As for vinyl? I ain’t going there.

Why is it that when someone posts a question here asking about CD or SACD or Blu Ray he gets flooded with posts telling him to listen to lps or buy a streamer, even if they have made it abundantly clear that their interest is in hard disc replay?

@fred60 , I will follow your exploration of Esoteric with interest. Please keep posting

I know thread is nearly 3 yrs old and I’m not much of a technical guy. First, playing a Redbook 16 bit CD from virtually ANY high quality transport, through a Holo May KTE DAC is generally going to sound amazing. If that transport is also a SACD transport, how can you be absolutely certain that the analog signal sent to your speakers from the Holo DAC is in fact the SACD layer versus the Redbook layer from hybrid SACDs?? Again, that Redbook layer is taken to a different level through the Holo. And I’ve been told repeatedly (by techies waaaay smarter than me) that many people connect SACD transports to high quality DACs, but DO NOT realize the transport is sending only the Redbook layer of the SACD. Hence, despite hearing fantastic music through your speakers, it is actually not SACD quality but just really high quality Redbook.

Lastly, an owner of a highly reputable high end audio store in Scottsdale, AZ told me today that matching the brands of the SACD transport and the DAC is often the only sure way of knowing that the DAC is receiving and processing higher than 16 bit data.

Don’t you think using single layer sacd disc will not work if the DAC is not sacd capable. 

Dear JYMC,

Yes, you are correct that you are not much of a technical guy. The digital out connection from any sacd player only outputs pcm signal, or cd signal. The only exception to this is if a player has HDMI output. That will allow you to send a DSD signal to another HDMI equipped item, either a dac or AV receiver with an HDMI input.

Yes, the store owner in Scottsdale was correct that sacd transports can only be connected to same brand DAC, as that requires a proprietary transmission method only available to that particular brand. 

fred60

Which SACD player did you purchase?

Happy Listening!

@jayctoy - yes, I’m aware that a NON-hybrid SACD has only the SACD layer, and hence, it will only play on an SACD player.

@Jafant  -  I have not yet purchased an SACD transport.  And I suppose that given the potential connectivity issues related to the transmission of data files to a DAC, is making me wonder IF it makes more sense (less fuss) to just purchase a high end  "all in one unit"  SACD player with the DAC built-in....then that would automatically eliminate all connectivity and data transmission issues.  It seems to me that purchasing a transport only SACD device locks you in and limits the choices of which DAC you can use.   

@sharri - Maybe I’ve misled you as to the extent of my technical ignorance of much of the "consumer audio" gear that is out there. I’m an old guy who spent too many years in analog recording studios and am certainly not hip to all the latest digital formats. (So I’m depending on your advice or else I’ll have to hang out at the local high school at dismissal time and shake down one of the kids!!) Regardless, I know there are lot’s of gimmicks (formats) out there and don’t really believe based on info from high end audio dealers that the latest and greatest file types sought out by some are what I should be concerned with.

With that said, generally, there will be a readout on the transmitting SACD and or the receiving external DAC as to the digital data in play. I suppose my real hypothetical concern is purchasing (pre-owned) an SACD transport unit that will transmit it’s optimal digital stream to the receiving DAC. ALMOST ALL DACS will receive at least some form of data that will convert to analog sound coming thru the speakers....but whether or not the DAC is receiving the optimal bit rate is another story that many people on these threads have not entirely convinced me that they entirely understand.

If you can advise me how to be certain a given DAC will perform optimally with a particular transport, I’m all ears. In fact, more specifically, I currently own a Mark Levinson No 519 Streamer/Redbook CD player/DAC. I do not like the sound signature of the DAC. I am ready to purchase a Holo May KTE DAC and believe given the sophistication of the Holo technology that it will function perfectly (at the Redbook level) resulting in stellar analog audio reproduction. However, I will likely forego the CD transport section of the Levinson, and only use its dual mono streaming function with Qobuz, while assigning CD/SACD duties to a dedicated transport. AND THE QUESTION becomes whether my transport choices will be limited. The Holo has an I2S connection and maybe Holo will have to advice me on which transports are known to work optimally with their I2S. And lastly, I assume (perhaps incorrectly??) that the I2S data transmission is supposed to result in the best analog audio quality in an optimized set-up. I own a very high end downstream analog path so am focused on getting the best quality out of the upstream digital gear. Thanks :-)

jfant- I still haven't upgraded!  I was waiting for the Esoteric K-05XD to come out (it took a lot longer than I thought) and when it did, they priced it at $12K, above the $8K that I thought it was going to price at (because the yen/dollar conversion on the earlier Japanese version that's where they priced it).  I don't want to pay $12K.

Now I've moved and do not have a dedicated listening room--- yet.

So I've thought of other things, maybe going the d.Bob route.  PS Audio has also raised prices, their Perfectwave SACD transport has not gone on sale again (it's $7K, and their new Directstream DAC II is priced above what their old DAC's sold for (it's $8K).

Now I'm looking at McIntosh-- they 8950 Integrated with their MCT500 transport.

Net/net I'm stuck in neutral.

jymc-- I believe that the i2s connection on your Holo May will work with the PS Audio Perfectwave Transport-- in other words it will send the DSD layer all the way through.  But I would ask Holo Audio first.

fred60,

Why not consider an Esoteric K-01X on used market. They are sub 10k and will out perform a Esoteric K-05XD. 

Its a 70lb monster. US Audiomart has a few. 

I hear the the XD versions are far better than previous iterations.  I've looked at K-03XD used.  Thanks for the thought.

OP- since you still haven't pulled the trigger yet, here's my 2c.

McIntosh MCD600 CD/SACD player that also has a preamp.

It replaced a Luxman 3X CDP and a Topping Pre90 preamp.

I run the Mac straight into my PS Audio M1200 monoblocks.

It sounds absolutely fantastic.

tomcarr-- thanks for the idea.  What I like about the McIntosh 8950 integrated is that the DAC can be upgraded when McIntosh upgrades their DAC-- it can be swapped out via the back of the unit.  They call it a "Digital Audio Module" currently they are on version DA2.  So when the technology improves, you can just upgrade the DAC.

we are an esoteric dealer 

the best esoteric player for the money is the new ko5 xd se as it uses a more advanced dac then the older models.

Dave and Troy

Audio Intellect NJ

audiotroy-- yes I heard about that.  Only issue for me is that the original retail price in Japan for the K-05XD in yen translates to about $8K.  And for some reason Esoteric decided to list it for $12K in the US.  That is too much.  The K-03XD is $15K.

tomcarr

you sold the Luxman?   Why?

Happy Listening!

fred60

Thank You for the update. As above, always buy demo/used. Keep me posted if you decide to go Esoteric route. I love my DV-50.

Happy Listening!

I listen to SACD with my Oppo 105 outputting the DSD layer over HDMI into the HDMI input of my Bryston DAC.  The Oppo program menu makes you decide which layer of the disc that you wish to output.

  Magnets Universal Players are made by the same engineers that created the Oppos and the menus are identical to the Oppos.

  Given what the OP has said about his budget-it seems to be in the 5-7 K range if I understand correctly- he should be able to afford a Magnetar and a good DAC with HDMI input.  He could just try the Magnetar first with the internal DAC and if he’s happy stop there

@mahler123 does the Bryston DAC play the OPPOs output as pure DSD or PCM?

DSD 64.

In my last post, the manufacturer’Magnetar’ was apparently autocorrected to ‘Magnets’.

  Someone suggested buying a used Esoteric.Keep in mind as I went through this with a unite out of warranty,the only place to get it serviced is in California and they are ridiculous in pricing..You cant even get parts ,no one can get parts.It has to go to west coast and it is very very pricey...assuming things havent changed in the past 15 months,,sheers

I sold my Esoteric after getting it repaired for that same reason missioncoonery stated. 

@jafant  I haven't listed the Luxman yet, but plan to when get around to listing it.

I compared it to the McIntosh MCD600 and thought the lower midrange sounded more natural, with a little more bloom.

Then, because the Mac has a preamp built into it I was able to connect it directly to my amps and that sounded even better.

Thanks for asking.

Enjoy the music!

Check out the Shanling SCD 1.3. I recently bought their ET3 and it is AMAZING

@tweak1 Thanks, will definitely check out the Shanling SCD 1.3.