Foil damping tape as a tonearm tube wrap?
@nationalbar described one application in this thread: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/arche-headshell-and-technics-1200g @rauliruegas cited this post in this thread: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/picking-up-a-new-technics-sl1200g-tt-tomorrow |
The Sumiko Analog Survival Kit used a thin tape to be wound tightly around an arm tube slightly overlapping the winds. It was not heavy. The 3M foil damping tape is a heavy, foil-backed thin sorbothane-like material. Heavy compared to the Sumiko tape. In my opinion.... The 3M Foil Damping Tape can significantly change the effective mass of a tonearm. Significantly. And it would be hard to judge exactly what the resulting arm mass would be. Also, the arm counterweight could end up being insufficient to balance some cartridges. Certainly, on paper, it seems like a VERY BAD suggestion. YMMV. |
@nationbar pm’ed me about his experience with this tweak. Here is the gist of that pm: “Hello, The product I use is 3M Damping Foil (tape), # 2552 It is a constrained layer damping tape. Here is the product sheet on 3M's web site: https://www.3m.com/3M/enUS/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Damping-Foil-2552/?N=5002385+3293194280&a... I use the 1" x 5 yards roll (that's enough to do fifteen tonearms!) I buy it from Grainger, they have the best price and they sell smaller quantities, most industrial sources only offer large quantities. Here: https://www.grainger.com/search?searchBar=true&searchQuery=3m+2552 Forget about the description on Grainger's website re:" EMI absorber tape", that's for another product altogether. The product is indeed 3M 2552. I wrap the armtube only, from just behind the headshell collet, up to but stopping at the bearing lug section, where it gets bigger.. just behind the arm lock. I wrap-carefully- in a spiral, with about 50% overlap. Beware, the adhesive is strong- I actually spoke to an engineer at 3M in Minnesota to enquire about removing the tape from a magnesium tube. he said removal requires a 4 pound pull for the adhesive to release. The reason I am damping the arm this way, as well as using the KAB fluid damping system and the arche headshell is the London Reference cartridge I use is very low compliance, and sends a LOT of energy down the tonearm tube, which feeds back to the stylus. The 3M damping tape is FAR more effective than teflon plumbers tape or heat shrink tubing. The combination of all three elements, the arche headshell, the damping tape, and the KAB fluid damping system, eliminated the mechanical quirks from the London cartridge, allowing it to track properly, and also it lowered surface noise, which this cartridge is known for. The tape wrapped on the armtube added about 6 grams of weight, so remember to re-adjust your VTF.” |
The first link from my previous post includes a broken link. The clean link is here: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Damping-Foil-2552/?N=5002385+3293194280&... Here is the link to the product specification sheet: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/96388O/3mtm-damping-foil-2552.pdf |
Michael Percy (Audio) sells an EAR product named TAD Damping Foil. It's a composite damping sheet comprised of a viscoelastic pressure sensitive adhesive constrained by an aluminum foil layer, 0.005" thick. It's very light and flexible, perfect for damping tone arm tubes. Cheap too, $3.50 for a 9" x 12" sheet. Percy has a $25.00 minimum order requirement, but he has lots of other cool stuff, including other EAR damping products. |
I’m personally not a big fan of EAR damping productsl having had very mediocre results (I.e., poor) with their blue damping sheets 🦋 and blue footers 🐬 but I say, “never say never” as I haven’t tried the EAR viscoelastic tape. The EAR stuff seems like it would be great for audio, not too hard, not too squishy. Oh, well. |
Geoff’s dislike of EAR damping products reminded me that he also dislikes lead, and that rolls of lead tape are also available. A roll of 3/4" cost less than $10, for those wishing to give it a try. However, lead is relatively heavy (in relation to EAR foil), and will substantially increase the effective moving mass of any tone arm whose tube it is wrapped around. Perhaps just one layer at the back end of the tube, right in front of the bearing housing? |
celander, Regarding your proposed use of the damping tape with the London cartridge, if you think about the physics of the situation, is it not possible that by wrapping the tonearm wand, you are inhibiting its capacity to dissipate energy transmitted into it from the cartridge, by inhibiting its capacity to vibrate? This would result in the energy moving either to the pivot or back to the headshell, both of which are to be avoided. I guess, best case, the energy is dissipated as heat in the arm tube. Anyway, let us know how it works out. We toss these terms around, but in fact most of the time the physics is complex and requires a deep understanding to predict. |
Unless the turntable is properly isolated the cartridge, tonearm, platter etc. is subject to very low frequency seismic vibration. The tonearm, like the cartridge and platter, is susceptible to seismic vibration in the 10-12 Hz region, which is its design resonant frequency Fr. That is the physics involved. Even if heroic vibration isolation is employed, isolation is not perfect so it might be worthwhile to damp the tonearm, e.g., tape or oil bath, using oil of the correct viscosity, even if isolated. It’s not rocket science. Well, maybe it is. |
An alternative to using tape that I use is the Herbies Damping ring. I use it on my FR-64S with nice results. Lightweight and easily installs. I would say it takes the arm up a notch closer to the level of a FR-66S in terms of a more neutral and relaxed presentation. I guess I could add more if I wanted to experiment but one is fine. http://herbiesaudiolab.net/jr.htm#jr |
The rational for constrained layer damping is that the product absorbs vibration and converts it to heat---not reflecting the mechanical energy back to it’s source, but instead dissipating it. That’s the theory, anyway. I really doubt damping tape can prevent an arm tube from vibrating! It CAN absorb vibration though, and is in fact designed and intended to do just that. EAR damping products are widely used in commercial applications, to reduce the level of noise produced by large machines in manufacturing plants. In music systems, constrained layer damping (used in some of the world’s best loudspeakers, and in some isolation platforms, such as those made by Symposium Acoustics) can be used not only on tone arms, but also the metal chassis’ of electronics, many of which ring like a bell. That doesn’t necessarily mean the sound of those electronics will be improved, but it’s cheap to give it a try and find out. |
Dear @lewm @celander : A tonearm muyst be an inert device but no single tonearm out there is inert. Designers try to design tonearms well damped many with out success and other choosed for no damping at all, these ones are the worst no matter what. What is happening with OP cartridge is not only for the Decca London but any cartridge signal will receives dramatic benefits that only a deaf man can't listen. When Sumiko puts in the market an arm pipe device was because they made it several tests but my first hand experiences with over 15+ tonearms and dozens of cartridges told me and tells me that Sumiko was rigth. Lewm, you always think on theories or just imagination on subjects as this one. Do it a personal self favor and test it and you will see that always makes a difference for the better. Test with the 3M 434 that will mantain almost the same inertia moment/EM. @celander , the headshell you bougth is not well damped and that's a problem not only for your cartridge but for any one. The arm pipe of your tonearm is made for a well self damped magnesium material, try with these magnesium ( that match the toneam magnesium material. ) very well damped headshells and you will confirm what I said about: https://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDIO-TECHNICA-HEAD-SHELL-AT-MG-10-from-JAPAN-Japan-new/183366770516?epid=2... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica-AT-LS12-headshell-with-adjustable-azimuth/302816656736?hash=... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica-AT-MS9-Headshell-adjustable-azimuth/113137039830?hash=item1a... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica-AT-MS10-Headshell/223092162897?hash=item33f1544151%3Ag%3ABhE... https://www.ebay.com/itm/HIGH-QUALITY-AUDIO-TECHNICA-DISCONTINUED-MAGNESIUM-LT12-PHONO-HEADSHELL/263... R. |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
noromance: Anyone use PTFE (plumber’s) tape?I use PTFE on the tonearm of my Technics SL1210 M5G. I consider it an ideal mod, at least for that application. Advantages are:
|
@celander : At the end what we want is to tigth ( tension hold to the arm pipe ). with enough force the arm pipe and if the foil/wrapp has damping characteristics the better but not essential for the job. I think that even at 30-35° it works. We need the damping all over the frequency range not only in one frequency range, we need at least at both frequency extremes as a fact the bass range is so importamnt about. The Sumiko works because it puts enough force against the arm pipe " killing " vibrations/resonances where it makes its harm " work ". @johnnyb53 , with this damping method you can't overdamp the tonearm because you are not altering the pivot bearing free movements but helping about. R. |
The Sumiko Analog Survival Kit used a thin tape to be wound tightly around an arm tube slightly overlapping the winds. It was not heavy.The Analog Survival Kit was the brainchild of Warren Ghel, currently employed at ARC. He developed this about the same time that SOTA came out with the Cosmos turntable, so about 28 years ago or so. I think he still has access to some of the materials. |
Dear @celander : """
certainly be a step in the right direction in terms of resonance control, stiffness and strength. """ that'as the main concept of the wrapp subject. Took those inside listening cartridge frequency range out of the cartridge signal and that's why the 3M 434 could works with no problem at any temperature but you can go to use the wrapping with other kind of item. Some one mentioned teflon tape that seems to me a little " soft " for this job but you can try too. R. |
