Linn’s notorious marketing campaign and attitude to business strategy had a fair bit to do with it too.
It only really came to an end once the Linn / Naim alliance came to an end and even the staunchly anti digital Linn had to do an embarrassing about-face turn.
Seriously, those highly divisive Linn campaigns left such a stink that many have never forgiven them since.
The funny thing is that the LP12 remains a highly contentious deck to this day.
Can’t remember any other deck being so controversial, but then the Linn was controversial from its inception, through a lengthy court case and beyond.
As for the best platform, I recall Linn used to recommend a small coffee table with preferably slightly loose legs!
I too use a Segue under my LP12. I also modified a solid Linn baseboard and added brass cones. This according to Peter was a better interface with the platform than the rubber feet.
I used to use a Townsend Seismc Sink under my LP12. With very nice results. However, once I added the Tramp 2, the combo of Tramp 2 and Seismic sink was too much and the SQ suffered. I do think that with Tramp 2 the platform beneath the table can be of less importance, so long as it can be well leveled and isn't too prone to vibration.
In the 1980's and 90's a lot of UK Linn dealers sold the Torlyte shelf as a platform for the table. Torlyte is an extremely low mass, honeycomb-like structure, made of balsa wood. It has fallen out of fashion, but is I believe still available from Russ Andrews. I use one between my Townshend Rock table and Townshend Seismic Pods. Old & new!
@daveyf Thank you! Yes, Peter at Symposium is a great guy and easy to talk to, very responsive and makes a great product with excellent fit and finish. It came packed very well.
He knows the Linn LP12 very well and recommended the Segue over the Segue ISO as the latter has a built-in spring system that would not work as well with the LP12 as just the normal Segue.
It's nice to have another great option for people who enjoy suspended tables :)
@no_regrets Nice. Symposium, as stated above, makes some great gear! Their racks have long been on my radar as a replacement should I move away from my current Sound Anchor. Great to hear their shelf works well under the little fruit box.
I just wanted to take a moment to follow-up and let you know what I ended up getting.
I bought a Symposium Segue to use as the shelf to rest my LP12 on, placing it on my wall mounted platform.
It works very, very well. Far better than the various maple, birch butcher blocks that I have tried, and better then the baltic birch plywood shelves as well.
The Segue is relatively light and rigid, won't warp, and is attractive to boot :) It did have a smell to it for quite some time... but has now dissipated, thankfully. I think it took a couple of months for the smell to leave. I like the shelf a lot. It doesn't muddy up the sound of my LP12 like the butcher blocks did, it doesn't smear the details at all. It has a very neutral effect to the sound, which is exactly what I wanted.
So, it's nice to have another option for people with suspended tables :)
Best wishes to you all, and thank you to everyone who took the time to post your thoughts to this thread!
Paul, I think you described why some might not like the Linn pretty well, in your second paragraph. It boils down to fussiness plus the high cost of the most necessary factory upgrades.
I do not have my lp12 anymore but did use the target wall mount. Before that I used IKEA lack table top on resting on many different footers.
I don’t understand all the dislike for the lp12, with a good power supply, bearing and arm it’s a very enjoyable table. Once set up with new springs and grommets by someone that truly knows what there doing and left alone you are good for many years. I miss my Linn sometimes and consider buying another every once in awhile. Sure there better tables out there but it’s all personal taste.
I’ve a Linn LP12 (~Akurate configuration and Trampolin 2) on the way. My floor is concrete and heavy’ish wooden rack. I don’t have empty shelf space on my rack. Hence I’m planning to use the space on my window sill.
@daveyf would that be ideal? My other options are 1) add another extra shelving to my heavy wooden rack for LP1: 2) put a platform between the window sill and bottom of LP12. What would you recommend for a concrete floor?
@daveyf @no_regrets On a serious note I still fettle Linns. If you have a suspended timber floor, in my view you cant beat a light rigid wall hung shelf hung on a structural wall - structural wall being load bearing, with direct vertical path to foundation block. Non structural walls will move with the floor.
If you have a concrete floor, either the above or light rigid table.
What I have found is that no shelf has zero resonance, even bamboo, and you can often get better results with gear sitting directly on a light rigid frame with no shelf.
@daveyf That sounds interesting... thank you for the tip! I'll do some research and see if there are any indications of warping with bamboo and how heavy it may be.
I remember from the good ole days, they always recommended low mass, lightweight, but rigid platforms. That may explain why the maple butcher block I tried didn't work well with my Linn. It's rigid, but was heavy and certainly had mass to it and it cluttered up the sound. The maple butcher blocks may be good for some components, but it didn't seem to work well with my LP12. Hopefully the Bamboo will be a better match :)
@no_regrets Don, try sourcing a bamboo shelf. This is the newest shelf material for audio that is being used extensively now...and IME using it under a few pieces of gear, it works extremely well! Someone once said that bamboo is nature's carbon fibre!
@daveyf HI and thank you for your reply! I will certainly look into the Tramp 2 more :)
Years ago, I did use a nice lightweight table that worked very well. However, as I am now aging, trying to bend down or kneel, etc to cue the cartridge... it has become very difficult on my knees and joints.
By using the wall shelf, I can simply walk right up to it standing and no longer have to deal with the pain from bending or kneeling. By using the adjustable three point system that the shelf rests upon, I am am able to level the table quite well using several levels. I just really need to find a shelf material that the Linn will like and that also won't warp.
I think I will try visiting a wood shop this afternoon that has various types of both furniture grade ply and marine ply of varying thickness and see what they might recommend that may resist warping.
I'm still keeping an open mind and welcome additional options/suggestions.
Don, if you have suspended floors, which do usually cause some issues with most turntables, I would suggest that for your Linn, not only do you look into the Tramp 2, but also a very light stand to sit the table on. Lightweight stands are usually best for the LP12. A wall shelf can be ideal, but it is usually a little difficult to get it perfectly level and again, as you are seeing, they can warp. There is no love for the LP12 on most forums these days, and this one is no exception. Usually we see folk who have absolutely no clue as to what the LP12 sounds like today in its current iteration, come out and naysay because a) they either last owned the table back in the early 80's...which now makes them Linn experts on all fronts...or b) they like a specific table ( submit any brand here including the Crossley) and are sure their favorite purchase easily beats the LP12, even though they have never heard an LP12!
Thank you for all of the replies so far... even the ones that are tongue in cheek... I do have a sense of humor :)
I personally believe that we as vinyl lovers should feel truly blessed that we have so many great tables to choose from and at many different price points. As @daveyf suggests quite correctly, whether you choose a high mass, light mass or suspended design; belt drive, rim drive, idler, drive; pivoted, uni-pivot, linear tracking arms... there will be pro’s and con’s with all of them, and they will all be affected by various vibrations (air borne, structural, mechanical, electrical, magnetic, etc to some degree or another. The point is, it is possible to enjoy the sound of all these various designs when care is used when setting up the table/arm/cartridge and matching it to your system and your room.
I realize that the LP12 is not the "flavor of the month", but the simple fact that it has been around for many decades and can be modified or upgraded in so many ways; it is certainly still capable of reproducing very beautiful music from those precious record grooves. I for one have been loving the sound from my LP12/ with DC motor and power supply, Naim ARO, Benz Ruby ZH Zebra Wood bodied moving coil for many years.
I have found that in my wood framed house with hardwood floors, that having my LP12 sited on a wall mount that is fixed to the studs of an external wall works the best for my situation. I had built a DIY wall mount shelf that has been working beautifully. The platform that I have been using consists a 18"x17" piece of 3/4" baltic birch plywood. I have 3 wood screws drilled up thru the bottom of that piece and then I have a second 3/4" piece sitting on top of the wood screw points that come up thru the top of that bottom shelf. The combination of the wall brackets being mounted to the external wall studs, and the top baltic birch plywood shelf resting on the 3 wood screw points ( which also allows me to level the table precisely ) the table has been isolated well from foot falls and the platform is still light but rigid allowing the suspension of the Linn to do it’s work as designed.
The reason for me posting this thread is that my baltic birch plywood shelves are warping. Although by adjusting the individual height of each wood screw, I am still able to keep the Linn level, but I don’t care to "see" the warping of the shelves.... it’s unattractive and bothers me visually.
So I think I will continue to use the same wall bracket that I have made, but am entertaining other ideas for the shelf/platform that the LP12 will rest on. As an experiment, I substituted a thick maple butcher block in place of my two piece baltic birch plywood shelfs and the sound became muddy and it obscured the details of the music so that came out right away.
I’m wondering if a marine plywood would resist warping... maybe I will give that a try?
Another idea is using a shelf from Symposium... maybe the Segue?
@harrylavo Thank you for sharing your results with the Target wall shelf. Have you found that the wood insert the Target uses has warped at all?
@chayro Thank you for sharing the great results with the Neuance platform. Unfortunately, I believe they are no longer available and I haven’t been able to find any used at this point. I may look into the Corian as you had suggested.
@testpilot and @palasr Thank you for sharing your experiences with the Mana supports. I do seem to remember those being well liked back in the day :)
@daveyf My LP12 is not fitted with the trampoline, but I should look into that.
Sorry for the long winded post.... but thank you for the contributions so far :)
Wishing you all the very best of health and happiness, Don
@mijostyn A good suspended turntable is like any other table...suspended or not, it will be subject to it surroundings..to a greater or lesser extent. Something you may have known IF you had any experience setting up turntables.
@dover, The last time you owned a Linn was by your own words---’back in the early 80’s’...enough said.
Not much love for Linn around here. When I had my Linn, I found it was amazingly sensitive to the platform it sat on. I was using a Target wallshelf and the installer was amazed at the improvement in sound using a Neuance platform as opposed to the standard wood. If you don't know, Neuance was sort of a hollow, rigid box, sort of like a surfboard in construction. I also liked a Corian platform much better than the wood. But you need to experiment to see which material you like best. I now use a Basis, which is also suspended, but is much less affected by the shelving.
@daveyf Final Audio Research VTT-1 has been my reference for the past 30 years. Garrard 301/FR64S modified for casual listening & 78's
Garrard 301 replaced Platine Verdier which was disappointing.
I did have a Linn with Syrinx PU2 back in the early 80's which was quite musical. I replaced that with a Sota Star Vacuum/Eminent Technology ET2 combo in the mid 80's.
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