EXTRA! EXTRA!! Millercarbon Proven Wrong!!! Read all about it! EXTRA! EXTRA!!
Been a long time now saying no one will ever DIY anywhere near as good as what you can buy already made. Never in a million years. Well, I have been proven wrong.
Not like I shouldn’t have known better. I Met both Caelin Gabriel and Ted Denney around 1992, back when they were not that far from being DIY’ers themselves. So it is not so much that it can’t be done, as it is just astronomically unlikely.
Okay, well so anyway that’s what I was saying, good luck you will never do it. Someone decided to call me on it, and took the unusual step of sending me a power cord to hear for myself.
This first one I got, we will call him Mr Black. I was actually quite surprised how good it was. Real solid imaging, spread across a sound stage nice and deep and wide, with plenty of dynamics and gobs of detail and extension. Only problem, no bass, the sound overall was thin and the top end extension a little too much. I let it burn in playing CD hoping it would warm up and round out but it never did get there. Captivating as the sound stage was the lack of bass and body eventually got too much and I moved it aside. Figured oh well not bad for DIY went back to my old Shunyata and sort of forgot about it.
Until he checks back, we get to talking, and he drops the bomb, “Yeah I was going for real good imaging with that one. I have much better now, way better.” Really??!?! “Would you be interested in evaluating?” Would I?!?!
So I get these two power cords, we will call them Mr White and Mr Silver. Mr White looks exactly like the first one, except white not black. Mr Silver is thinner and stiffer, almost too thin to be your typical audiophile type power cord. With nothing else to go by I decide to start with Mr White.
Right away, and I mean immediately, this thing is impressive as can be. All the great 3D imaging, incredible speed and resolution of Mr Black, only Mr White is superbly balanced top to bottom. This has me pretty gaga, not least because this is straight out of the box. It was late, I was pressed for time, just thought what the hell might as well get this over with. But now I am sitting here trying to understand how any power cord - let alone one some guy made at home - can be doing this to my system.
Couple days later I am calling and being told yeah, friend had a Nordost Odin 2 to compare and this is at least as good. ? I have never heard Nordost Odin, 1 or 2, but by now I am finding it hard to argue.
What am I hearing, with 10 maybe 20 hours on it? The Holy Grail of audio, at least as far as I’m concerned, is infinite speed with zero edge. Nothing really does this. Everything super fast always winds up being etched, or hard, or thin, or hyped, or anything other than what I want which is full and round and balanced AND light speed fast. My ears are sensitive to glare and so forced to choose I will take full and round and balanced over fast. It is just a more enjoyable listening experience. All the best components in my view capture both of these sort of conflicting goals. Tekton does, with electrostat speed combined with big box fullness. Townshend does, improving perceived speed by lowering the noise floor while eliminating ringing. Herron, Koetsu- pretty much everything in my system is oriented along these lines.
Mr White is pushing on the edge of this envelope. It is even smoother and fuller now, but without losing any of the initial speed.
I actually had these before the F1 came but held off writing about them partly out of respect for Max Townshend, who is actually running a business, and also partly because it is just kind of hard to believe the darn thing really is this good. Thought maybe with the F1, which are even cleaner and more revealing than Synergistic CTS, maybe it might reveal some problems with Mr White. He is after all home-brew. Cannot possibly have the thorough vetting of a “professional” product.
But no, both these truly exceptional lengths of wire are fine together. So fine I was reluctant to try Mr Silver. Unable to comprehend how he could be better, unwilling to listen to anything less. I get spoiled fast! 😍 But I put him in there and at first thought he might be even better. But it was just the impressively palpable presence and solid stage. After a while it was clear Mr Silver is not as superbly effortlessly detailed and fast as Mr White. Not quite as good bass either. Bear in mind the bass we are talking about being "not quite as good as" is really, really exceptionally good! The main difference between the two is a bit of glare.
But when I say glare, this has to be taken in context. I never, ever thought of my Moabs as having any glare. Until they were on Podiums, at which point they were- comparatively. The glare wasn’t the Moabs, it was the ringing, now eliminated by the Podiums. Synergistic CTS never seemed to have any glare or grain- until compared with Townshend F1. Same kind of thing, a ringing that presented as a hard edge or glare is gone now, and for the better. Mr Silver is indeed a fine power cord in its own right. Just not up to the exalted level of Mr White. I suspect few, if any, are.
In defense of my post: I’m sharing my opinion, like you, ARTICDETH, except mine isn’t that there’s a chance he’s correct here with the power cords he’s selling. It’s that hearing Miller Carbon’s Evangelical opinions on EVERYTHING are what ruin the positivity of the rest of the forum. The source of the negativity, I say, is him calling everyone who disagrees with him a moron. Every time. It got to the point that I quit coming around the “Carbontologist Compound.” I know, don’t let the door hit me. Do some basic inferencing. It’s 2021 and we’re on the internet. If this gets posted, then MC ISN’T the owner/moderator of AG and he’s just a chronic contributor. If it doesn’t, at least I know to stop barking up this tree. Seeing as MC is now suddenly a comment section fascist who is “making lists,” maybe that’s for the best. I’ll just take my business elsewhere.
@millercarbon is having some fun, being himself, adding some humor, and making a message about audio gear. Yet there are always those who must always put down and be negative. I need to use some expensive power cords and see if I can hear a difference. Personally, if the power cords are silver and of very high quality, there may be a difference,... if they are standard power cords, I would not expect any audible difference. As most homes as mentioned are ran with 16ga or higher from the fuse box to the wall outlets, with runs of hundreds of feet to the upstairs rooms, and far rooms through walls and ceiling runs. Hard to believe a mere 2-4 foot power cord fed by this 100+ feet of 20ga electrical wire can make a difference. I will need to try to believe.
Unless a seriously successful effort is made to clean up the AC power coming THROUGH the house circuit and into the stereo components, one will never hear the true potential of their audio systems ... no matter the cost of said systems.
@jhills, you have quite an abrasive demeanor. Claiming superiority over someone you know nothing about! You state: "
working for a company on the forefront of modern electronics, not sure you’re going to teach me much about that or electronics" REALLY?
And where does Quantum enter the picture?
"
The last 5’ of electrical supply from the outlet to your device is a
mater of simple electronics and does not begin to enter into the realm
of Quantum anything"
Apart from the absurdity of the above you appear not to have considered the fact that the 5' of cable you mention is not the 'last' but actually the first bit of cable the amp or whatever is connected to.
just a reminder, millercarbon, ted denny, and majority of synergestic research clients are scientoligists in the los angeles area. ted denny is cut of the cloth of run L hubbard
Wow! 3 posts in and you've already got it all figured out.............
I’m an SR customer and have never set foot into a Scientology building. I used to work with one of them though. He was the most f##ked up person I’ve ever met. Well, he and a guy I used to work for who was seriously bipolar. Serious weirdos.
I have a good idea of how MC’s audio system sounds. He and I are on the same wavelength when it comes to tweaks. If you heard these systems, you’d be picking your chin up off of the floor. No joke.
just a reminder, millercarbon, ted denny, and majority of synergestic research clients are scientoligists in the los angeles area. ted denny is cut of the cloth of run L hubbard
Sorry, just get tired of explaining something's been explained a zillion times. Not to mention all the glowing listener impressions on the page are clear the imaging is to die for.
"Were they costly?" You are new! Tekton Moabs are now $4730, or $5030 with the same upgrades as mine. This for performance that renders such numbers all but meaningless. Soundwise these are $30k speakers, and that is being conservative.
If you take the time to understand what is going on, the crossovers are designed so that the drivers in the array all output frequencies low enough that the wavelength is long enough relative to the size of the driver that they are the sonic equivalent of a single 9" midrange driver. But they are tweeters, with moving mass of 0.3g so what we have in effect is a 9" midrange driver with a total moving mass of 0.3g which is a phenomenal power to weight ratio and a big reason these speakers sound fast like a stat.
Also because the MTM array is symmetrical above and below the tweeter then it is functionally equivalent to a coaxial driver. All the same applies to the woofers, making the whole speaker very similar to a single driver. So there are very strong engineering reasons for why this would be an exceptionally coherent speaker, even aside from everyone who hears it saying it is an exceptionally coherent speaker.
I am not kidding when I say it is worth the fare. You hear this, you let me know when you hear anything else like it. Anywhere. Any price. I will not be holding my breath.
Yes I say that partly to trigger people I absolutely love to trigger- but only partly. It ain't braggin' when it's true.
Don't take it personally. @millercarbon barks often but he works his butt off understanding his system and everything that affects it. He reminds me of one of my uncles and why I always seem to have other plans when I know that uncle will be there. Doesn't make him bad, just exhausting.
Many real world rooms can't (or prefer not to) be outfitted like Miller's or others here. Me? I have more than enough space in my home but as I've stated before, my systems have to live with us and not the other way around. I also feel kindof sad for some here on Audiogon when you see the Rube Goldberg setups with a single chair...music and joy should be shared.
“Duh, please try to keep up”? That’s not very friendly. I didn’t know. Let’s be honest- they do look like tweeters. Who’s with me? Were they costly? If so I’m sure they sound fantastic because they’re a bit lacking in the looks department.
My listening impression was all the detail and nuances were presented to my ears in a most unique way. Unique to me because it was so far above any system I had heard including the last set of Monitor Audio Gold with a Prima Luna Integrated. I enjoyed hearing everything but was most shocked at Fleetwood Macs "Landslide" Hearing it so many times in the past and then not recognizing the intro because of the detailed soundstage. Then Chuck let Stevie Nicks sneak into the room and begin the vocals dead center right in front of me and the recognition set in.
To sum it up I was more than impressed. Anyone that can take advantage of Chuck’s generosity should do so.
Wow - just looked at your system Miller - I mean, that's a mess - but if that's what it takes to sound top notch with all those tweaks then - great! I don't have the luxury of a separate audio room - my simple system (Streamer - Audio Note 0.1x - Croft pre/power Valve/Mosfet amplification - Role Audio Enterprise loudspeakers) is pretty unobtrusive visually in comparison. In fact there is (boringly enough) no visual bling at all. Sounds good enough though.
Miller, as suggested I took a look at your system; quite impressive. You’ve gone to great lengths to weed out all potential problems distortions etc. However the multiple tweeters on the Tektons look like a notch filter/phasing nightmare. You may want to reconsider the last part of that fabulous chain.
This post had me thinking seriously- if a poster can go to the trouble of imagining one crazy thing after another, why can't they take the same amount of time to click on the name and look at the system? https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367
Check it out. AC power is tweaked extensively from BEFORE the panel, through the panel, every inch of AC wire from the panel to the step down transformer (and how many systems you know run 240V stepped down to 120? Anyone? Beuller?) then HARDWIRED into an extensively modified power conditioner, with Synergistic Orange outlets, and finally through the power cord.
Which goes into..... an integrated amp. So all your fantasy comes true in a veritable wet dream of wet dreams- except for the fact that it blows your dreamland out of the water because THIS is the system in which this power cord DOES make such a huge difference!
You are not alone. The vast majority of audiophiles harbor similarly inept ideas about how things work. A little more time doing, a little less guessing may be in order here.
This thread had me thinking seriously - if a power cord can make "that" much difference to an already well sorted Hi-Fi system - would it not be wiser to address the power issue by way of the connecting extension block. For example - invest in a Vertex AQ Taga? Or - again - if power cords make that much difference - perhaps we can consolidate our systems down to 1 very good integrated - especially if many here use digital only as playback. We can then only buy the one single power cord.
The more separates you have - the more power cords and expensive interconnects (if you believe in that) you need to buy.
WOW! forget about cords, cables and ropes - let's hear it for farm girls!!!
I Know what you mean about the goat. One of mine once stripped and ate the building paper off of the side of my house, while I was siding it (the house, not the goat) Amazing how high a goat can reach.....Jim
Anyone can call it what ever they want, BUT is show me something when people CLAIM to be informed and then SHOW they are not..
It’s not an opinion it’s a fact.. Now based on facts WHO would you buy from the person that knows the difference, or the one that could give a CRAP what it’s called..
What do you want? Mozart, or Salieri?
Besides NEITHER company could get close to a complicated cable design.. It’s just cables. Not the space shuttle. BUT I did work on the crawler for the space shuttle... Yup sure did... Remote control from Holt tractor supply... YUP
Everybody is a mechanic RIGHT.. But not everybody is a Mozart.. :-)
WOW oldhvymec, you and your chickens are brilliant. You might just straighten out the world and all our miss information.
Interesting - some very fine sounding, so called speaker cables, are, in fact, dual, single strand, cryoed OFC copper wire leads, each in a PTFE (Teflon) or Polyethylene sleeve, held together in a textile jacket. Not multiple strands, not braided, technically speaker wires but still called speaker cables - go figure.....Jim
CORD; A long, thin, flexible length of twisted yarns (strands) of fiber (rope, for example); uncountable such a length of twisted strands considered as a commodity.
ROPE; Thick strings, yarn, monofilaments, metal wires, or strands of other CORDAGE that are twisted together to form a stronger line. Rope
Wire The basic key difference between wires and cables is that a wire is a single conductor whereas a cable is a group of conductors. But, some of the wires are coated with thin insulating layer. Vinyl, PVC, teflon, PTFE
This is from my apprenticeship notes. Dated Nov 19,1976
These notes are 45-9 years old. NOTHING has changed.
Just that people don’t know the difference.. Word Count..
Even to a FART SMELLER, oh Smart Fellow.
My chickens are smart.. they know the difference between cord, cable, wire and rope. :-)
miller, you occasionally speak of your dream speakers, the Ulfberhts. There’s a guy in GA selling a pristine pair including his Tekton four driver sub for 10,500 or best offer. He went on to say he will be purchasing Moabs as soon as he moves into his smaller home. Perhaps you can come to terms with a trade plus cash. He is on USAudiomart.
Power cord: "Synonymous with line cord, power cable or mains cable"
I just found about 50 references on the internet for "power cords" of all configurations, lengths and gauges, to be used to connect a device, tool, component or appliance to a 120 - 440 V. electrical outlet or other power source. I Didn’t, however, find anything listed for $2,000.00 pr. ft. Maybe that’s the difference between a power cord and a cable.
Please Mr Genius contact them and straighten them out on proper terminology.
Read the posts, been saying my system sounds a whole lot better than good for a very long time now. Not just me by the way, read the system comments.
If someone was kind enough to invite me into their home to listen to his/her audio system, and I thought it sounded ok, I would tell my host and write that it sounded fantastic. Just normal polite manners in my neck of the woods.
Considering I spent a good share of my professional life dealing with frequency, vibration and resonance, while working for a company on the forefront of modern electronics.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So you’re smart? Well why didn’t you learn there are NO power cords? Only Power CABLES. A cord is complied of fibers that are twisted together, cord twisted and woven together are called ROPE.
A cable is a construct of single wires put together to form a cable..
NOW you’re a full blown PRO, you and prof, are officially deemed "SMART"
Now whatever suffix others add. Well, that’s up to you smart______ there is a possibility of a prefix also.. ______SMART_______.
Now don’t get all upset, I just happen to be the class clown..
Shootin’ cannon balls across the bow of a ship from a row boat could prove to be less than. SMART. Why on earth did you say what you said?
Dummy..
I refer back to Tombstone. "Well hell Doc I got all kind of friends", Doc H replies.. "I don't"
Never said it takes a $10k power cord to make my system sound good. Read the posts, been saying my system sounds a whole lot better than good for a very long time now. Not just me by the way, read the system comments. So it sounded fabulous, and now sounds even more fabulous, to a degree that can only be described as transformational.
That is what I said. If you're gonna snark, get it right.
And now, you being new may not know, and it's been a while so maybe time for a reminder anyway. But you will notice there are certain individuals who they can make all the snark they want, ask all the questions they want, still I will totally ignore them. I actually find it saves time, not bothering to even read their comments. This only happens once someone has demonstrated by their behavior they deserve to be banished. Can't do that myself. If I was moderator you would be gone. What I do instead, keep a list. So in case I forget, these are not worthy people.
Considering I spent a good share of my professional life dealing with frequency, vibration and resonance, while working for a company on the forefront of modern electronics, not sure you’re going to teach me much about that or electronics, either one. The idea that it takes a $10K, 5’ power cable to make an audio system sound really good is beyond absurd. If you have a $10K, $20K or any price of amp and it takes a $10K power cord to make it sound really good, maybe you should forgo the 10K power cord and invest in an amp that has a decent, well designed power supply.
As far as value: not long ago someone taped a banana to a wall and called it art - it sold for an astonishing $120K. Some call it art, I call it a banana stuck to the wall, that someone was arrogant or foolish enough to spend $120K for. I feel the same about a $10K power cord. The last 5’ of electrical supply from the outlet to your device is a mater of simple electronics and does not begin to enter into the realm of Quantum anything - get real....Jim
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