Is there are anyone out there who has compared the Esoteric DV-50 to a number of dedicated red book only players (or other universal's) and found one that is SIGNIFICANTLY better?
I stress significantly because in my humble opinion the redbook playback (if comparison unit is just a cd cd player only )must be significantly better to justify losing DVD-A, SACD and DVD-Video capability.
I keep hearing there are better one box solutions and being a die hard 2 channel fan I would sell my DV-50 if I found a player in the same price range that sounds significantly better. But every time I do an AB comparision to other well respected units the DV-50 has slayed each and every one.
So far, it has eaten the lunch of the Classe CDP-10, Ayre CX-7, Linn Ikemi, Cairn Fog Vers. 2, Cary 306/300, Arcam DV 27A and CD 33T, Myryad CD 600, etc. It even betters a Sony SCD 777ES/MF Tri-Vista 21 transport/dac combo that I previously owned. I'm only comparing the DV-50 to single box cd or universal players, but I just wanted to mention the Sony/MF combo. I'm sure there are some dac/transport combo's that will handily beat the DV 50.
Some may say that the DV 50 should beat all the above because the of price point ($5,500 vs. average price of $3,000 for the above players). But I disagree since conventional wisdom says that stand alone players (especially with the pedigree of those mentioned above) should produce better redbook than a universal player trying to be a jack of all trades. Only the DV 27A does video plus audio. By the way, I was very impressed with the 27A as just a cd player. Of all the above I would say the Ayre was the best.
Next on my list is the Electrocompaniet EMC 1UP and the Resolution Audio Opus 21. However, I must tell you I am really impressed with the DV 50 and all the great reviews are absolutely true. I've noticed that many people who are using it or comparing to other players are using the RCA analog outs instead of the balanced outs. There is a significant improvement in sound if you use the balanced outs and I'm only interested in hearing comments from people who have compared it against other players using the balanced outs on the DV-50.
My system components are as follows:
B&W N803's speakers & HTM-1 center Cary Cinema 5 (5 x 200) amp Anthem D1 Statement pre/pro Esoteric DV 50 Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun speaker wire Nirvana SX balanced interconnects from DV-50 to Anthem Acoustic Zen Matrix reference II interconnects from D1 to Cary No after market power cords or isolation equipment
My system sounds great! Those who comment please make sure to specify what specific improvements you heard over the DV 50 and what cdp were you comparing it against.
I was also considering a DV-50s due to all the great reviews and comments about it but one thing kind of puzzles me though. Why are there so many for sale on Audiogon? Are they not as good as they are said to be and people are trading them off or are they JUST that popular? The majority of the ones for sale are the older DV-50 though not the S version so possibly they are upgrading to the newer S version.
For anyone that can't do the shootout and is willing to traval to Cedar Falls IA. I have the Emm lab set-up through Tenor OTLs. I have been through the cable and powercord thing and feel my system is as good as it is going to get with what I have to work with. 319-266-8325
Arnold_h, the S version of the DV-50 has some video upgrades. The audio part of the S and non-S is exactly the same. See you email for explanaton why there are so many DV-50 for sale. It is testimonial from former DV-50 owner.
When it comes to the DV-50, as I mentioned before, it is Pioneer DV-47Ai in Teac box. The Teac has their own power supply, Upsampling processor, DACs and Analog stage which of course makes it much better performer than the Pioneer DV-47Ai.
The DV-50 needs master clock circuit capable of providing eight (8) different frequiencies. Installation of Super Clock I, II or III will somewhat help six (6) of these, but not the other two (2) which are essential for CD playback using the Upsampling modes.
Meitner: A word of caution. I believe AVGURU et al already know this but I have quite a few comments on Meitner gear in audiogon which are somewhat misguided. If you are going to test the gear make absolutely sure you are using the proprietarty optical link btwn the transport and DAC6 or DCC2. Only then do you get the full measure of performance as one of the keys to Meitner gear is that ir upconverts PCM to DSD before analogue conversion. Without the optical link, u don't get this and end up regular PCM to analogue conversion.
Henryhk, DAC6e and DCC2 are converting to DSD even the PCM from another transport. It is not nesessary to use the EMM transport in order to have DSD converted PCM. What really matters is the re-clocking of the EMM transport which can not be done using non EMM transport and that is where the big diffrence comes from. Both DAC6 and DCC2 are using DSD1700 DACs which are the Burr-Brown top notch DSD DACs. These do not support PCM.
My understanding was that the Superclock 3 has a greater effect on the FIR filter which upsamples to 352.8khz. There are two other filter settings on the DV-50, RDOT @ 705.60khz and RDOT + FIR operating at 1411.2khz. These are all selected via a switch on the front panel of the DV-50. I have heard improvement on all of the settings, but far less on the RDOT and RDOT + FIR. Before the upgrade, I was using the FIR filter exclusively. If I'm not mistaken, the newer Esoterics UX-1/X-01 use the FIR circuit and have abandoned the other two.
Will there be an EMM DCC2/CDSD at the shoot-out? I only read of a DAC6/CDSD going there, but I could've missed it in 706 posts:). Isn't there a big difference in sound?
very much doubt it sprinbok 10: the only diff would really be Dcc2's preamp function vs using another sep pre-amp: which can be avoided as DCC2 allows u to bypass the preamp functionality.
Tgun5, there are two master clocks for the upsampling in DV-50. There is also another master clock circuit that provides six (6) more clocks for the PCM, SACD and Video processors. This totals eight (8) clocks needed for the machine. It is essential to start with upgrading the six (6) clocks that are clocking the above mentioned processing which is the heart of the machine. Then, it is not bad idea to upgrade the Upsampling clocks too. Upgrading just one (1) of the Upsampling clocks will sure bring some incremental improvement, but it will be like a plastic surgery to your face in order to mask your heart failure.
Springbok10, it was mentioned earlier that they will bring DAC6e (note the "e"). It is the new $12K updated version of DAC6 and is exactly the same as DCC2 less the built in preamp in the DCC2.
to further carify - the dcc2 only decodes 2 channel dsd, the dac6 decodes 6.
the ONLY differences between the dac6 and the dac6e is that the dac6e has balanced and unbalanced outputs (the dac6 only has 1 set of balanced outputs) and the dac6 was rack-mountable and the dac6e isn't.
TGUN5, according to the X-01 review published in July 2004 on Soundstage, the X-01 has maintained the RDOT filter and has dropped the apparently older FIR technology. See: http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/esoteric_x01.htm
Guidocorona, The report you point to does say the FIR circuit is the default in the X-01 and UX-1. They are talking about the RDOT filter not being needed in the new units due to the VRDS mechanism. In think I'm reading it right.
Aplhifi, Thanks for the clarification. I was aware of the possibility to install two Superclocks and opted to hear the unit with one modification at a time. I stand by my observation that the single clock upgrade makes a pretty nice improvement. Considering the cost of $300 installed, I've bought power cords at three times the price that have made only 1/2 the improvement of this change. The second upgrade that I had done to this machine involves power supply upgrades. Being a "modder", you already know what was involved here. That improvement was dramatically better than the clock change, the clock circuit benefits from it and at $400 it is also a "steal". The second clock may be the next thing I try. The last will be changing the output stage.
I guess the object of this process has to do with the fact that I already own the DV-50. With just $700 invested, this unit has jumped to a dramatic new level. With the second clock and output stage...who knows? I'm fairly confident that its already better than the X-01. I've been in the hobby long enough to know that the difference I'm experiencing with these mods just doesn't happen when you change components - regardless of price.
Although I'm interested in hearing it against the new Esoteric, I'm also interested in hearing how it now compares to a fully-modified Denon. If this is the reference we are now shooting for, more modifications may be in order for my DV-50. The additional mods have been quoted at $1000, making a fully-blown DV-50 $4700-$5200 if you buy one used, or $1700 if you own one already.
I realize there are different approaches when it comes to modding these units. The real proof is in the performance, which is why I'm going to Chicago.
In the end, though, it is about having fun, making new friends, and listening to music. If we can advance the hobby through different ideas and methods, thats fine too.
"Saxman2", how close is Cedar Falls to Cedar Rapids? I will be in CR sometime during March. Don't know what week yet. I would love to listen to the Meitner.
the esoteric dv-50 is excellent but there's certainly better still. and many audio enthusiasts just aren't satisfied unless they get what they think is the very best.
Any thoughts to not letting the listeners know which player they are listening to? This would certainly make the results infinitely less biased. A person's preconceived notions about the performance of each player is going to greatly color their perceptions of that player. This was clearly demonstrated with my wife.
She loved Diet Pepsi and swore that she absolutlely hated the taste of Diet Coke. One day I bought a Diet Pespi and a Diet Coke and had her taste both blindly to see which she perferred. She found the 2 drinks to be barely distinguishable form one and other. The drink that she picked as tasting slightly better was the Diet Coke!
I am sure that you have previous experience of comparing digital front end equipment but I just wanted to throw in my few cents.
First of, it is very important that you have a Pink Noise CD and SPL meter to EQ levels. If you don't do that you can never get the right idea. Also, I would suggest the method of elimination for the shootout. Start A-B-ing two machines and vote on which you like better. Then add the next one to compare against your first preference. It would be best if you decide on one PCM and one SACD track for the initial A-B test. After you decide on the two best machines you can go into variety of other recordings in order to determine the winner.
Finally, the above suggested "blind" test is a very good idea. There is aways a way to do that.
I suggest a Niles switchbox to which you can hook up many components. That way you can do a blind test and switch between them without most people knowing what is switched in at the moment. If the switchbox detracts from the sound it will detract from all in equal measure.
TGUN5, you may be right. I have reread the paragraph in question in the soundstage review of X-01. Now I am totally confused. I suspect the filter discussion was lifted almost bodily from the Esoteric site, as it sounds somewhat stilted. I will call Esoteric on Monday or Tuesday and will ask them directly which filter technology is supplied with X-01.
Well, the gang just left. Jayctoy, 711smilin, Tgun5 and a couple others (Tgun5's sister and Eric, another local enthusiast) showed up and we listened to Jayctoy's Modwright Sony 9000es, 711smilin's APL Denon 3910, and Tgun5's modded DV50 with the Superclock3.
The system consisted of each player using a TG Audio SLVR power cord, TG Audio HSR High Purity single ended interconnects, CTC Blowtorch preamp, Purist Colossus balanced ICs to Parasound JC-1 monoblocks, TG Audio HSR speaker cables, and Sound Lab Ultimate-1 speakers. Line conditioners/filters used were TG Audio BybeeSucker and Creative Cable Concepts Blue Lightning plugged into Acme Audio cryo'd silver plated AC outlets. Room treatment consists of Sound Lab Sallies and ASC Tube Traps behind the speakers and a tapestry on the wall behind the speakers. Before the shootout we listened a bit through my digital front end, which was removed from the system to accommodate the other players.
The outcome? My answer might sound like a cop out, but I don't think there was a clear consensus. Some of us had similar comments but different preferences. If there was one thing we agreed upon it was that before anyone considers changing from one of these players to another, they might think twice, because they all have their strengths and are all very good. How one works in your system depends on the rest of the gear.
Hats off to all of the friendly folks who came and made for a very fun day for everyone. Thanks to Tom and Steve who both brought excellent wines which were consumed in moderation and enjoyed by all. Lots of laughs and good listening, both serious and casual. We filled out score cards to rank each, but the results were very close.
Perhaps there will be more shootouts, and I look forward to attending and, if people would like, hosting more in the future. What a great way to spend an afternoon, evening, or both with warm new and old acquaintances with a shared passion for music and fine sound in the home.
I think that this shoot-out at Brians just goes to show that there will NEVER, EVER be a "best sounding" audio component in any category! And if you think that your certain component is the "BEST", or the "TOP-OF-THE HEAP", DREAM ON!!! It may be to you personally, but when it comes to others opinions, you may as well forget it! There are simply too many different system synergys, personal tastes, and preferences out there for there to ever be a conscensus on any one component, in any given category, sounding BEST, no matter how fancy, expensive, or modified that the component is. I see and totally agree now, more than ever, that a person MUST audition any given component that they are interested in there OWN system, and in there OWN room, and using their OWN personal taste to decide how good the component sounds. Asking opinions about which component is good for a particular system, or sounds "best of all" on a forum such as this one is great, but in the end YOU must decide which components sound best to YOU, and in YOUR system, and suit YOUR particular PERSONAL tastes. One mans HOLY GRAIL or BEST SOUNDING will always be someone elses "sounds pretty good", or "it does sound great, but I've heard better", etc.,etc! And, on top of all that, even if another person has owned all the components you are interested in, and in the same combinations, odds are that their listening room, sonic perceptions, and personal preferences are much different than yours! Sorry all you audio enthusiasts and audiophiles out there, but I am be totally truthful and you all know it.
Id like to thank Brian again for hosting this event. I think everyone will agree on at least one thing - we had a lot of fun doing this. From a personal perspective, I accomplished the two things I had hoped for 1) make new friends, 2) make a good showing with the modified DV-50.
This event solidifies what this hobby is all about. I have a new to die for CD list. Also got to listen to two pieces on my must hear list, the Blowtorch preamp and Soundlabs. I came away impressed by their strengths although it took awhile to adjust to a different type of presentation than at home ..or was it the wine working? Just kidding Brian, youve got a great setup. The organ/choir piece was just incredible!
As far as the shootout, Im taking the same stance as you, Brian. It is not a copout simply because it is the truth. These players were all real close in overall performance. I dont think anyone expected this going in. Our scorecards covererd most of the critical aspects of each players performance from pace & timing to depth, balance, inner detail, vocal presence, etc, etc.. I believe we voted on a total of 10 categories, ranking each from 1-5. My scorecard had the players separated by just one point each after totaling the columns. In the end, the owners of each player, including myself, thought that their player held the edge in the competition. If Im not mistaken, the other three present chose one of each of the three players as their favorite. It cant get any closer than that. And no, my sister didnt choose mine. :-( You may think of course you are going to pick your own player . I dont think this shootout was that simple. It was so close that in the end, it came down to each players unique sonic signature. As an owner, this is one of the reasons you bought or kept the player to begin with. As a bystander, you preferred one presentation or another. There just was not a clear winner in all of those categories that you usually use to judge equipment.
Specifically about the DV-50 ... I know there is agreement by all that the stock Esoteric will not compete against these modified players. Both the Denon and Sony are at a level that is easy to call reference. I want to SINCERELY thank all of the modifiers for their efforts in taking this hobby to the next level.
The good news for Esoteric owners ..The DV-50 has a lot of growth potential! Mine is competing with the best with only $795 in total modifications. It has both the Superclock 3 and power supply modifications done. The great thing is that there is many more mods that can be done if you want to take it to potentially a higher level. Im contemplating doing this.
As far as the modifications, you can email me if you want specifics. As far as the modifier, it is Doug Jesse at Reference Audio Mods in Warren Michigan. We all know that the parts choice and use has everything to do with the sound. Doug has done an outstanding job in choosing the right components for the Esoteric.
Like I said earlier, my hats off to these guys who are putting a lot of effort into advancing the hobby. You dont have to sell your CD player to move up in performance. And this includes far less expensive players. I know there are many that have that hesitancy about upgrades. I had the same reservations, but will now highly recommend them.
Fair question. Here is how I scored the three: Esoteric DV-50 (46); APL 3910 (47); Modwright 9000ES (48) out a "perfect" score of 55. We used a subjective scale of one being worst, and a five being the best, across 11 categories. If I could imagine better or was just a little bit unsatisfied, I didn't score a five. And no, I don't pretend that all of us were in agreement on the scoring categories or exactly what each category referred to.
Before I elaborate, let me say that this was fun even if exhausting. I heard some top-notch CDs, a couple of which I will obtain in future, through some really great equipment. Three players are plenty to compare in a day. I don't see how you could fairly compare more, as your brain needs a break after a while. We did listen to some SACD tracks as well, but none of them especially rocked my world.
To those that say you have to listen to each component in your own system, I have to ask: Do you ignore all reviews? If not, why not? The reviewer's system will never be an exact duplicate of yours and even if it was, your room will be different. Second question: How, if you are not a reviewer, are you going to get three or four or six top-notch universal players into your system for a lengthy test period? Modders don't loan out their equipment to the world at large. I suppose you could buy two at at time, A/B them and then unload one at a loss here on Audigon.
I appreciate Brian's making this audition, or shoot-out, possible. It was worthwhile, even if not as rigorously controlled as some might argue it should have been. And it was just a nice social event after the scorecards were completed. So don't dismiss the idea of a couple of audiophiles getting together to compare gear. Try it. You might find you like it. It might not change your mind, but it is worthwhile.
After a short warm-up period, we picked six tracks and played about two to three minutes, per track, on each player after first listening to each track. That is, cuts 1-6 were played back-to-back on one unit; then the same tracks were played in the same order on the second unit; then on the third unit. At the end, we took a couple of selections and went directly back and forth between players. Brian's sound meter needed batteries so the volume equalization was done by ear and group consensus, and yes I am sure we were a little off.
What each player did right:
The APL Denon 3910 had the clear edge on detail retrieval, bass, and depth of soundstage. On an early cut, from Brian's Nils Lofgren CD, it was a real treat. Steve made no bones about the fact that *bass* is really important to him. I don't see Steve trading his player for one of the other two. I thought, however, the APL 3910 was just a notch below the Modwright 9000ES on vocals - a little dry. And there was something slightly fatiguing to my ears towards the high end in the APL unit. Sorry I can't pin it down better than that, but by a slight margin I preferred the Modwright unit, even though it clearly wasn't the "best" in each category.
The Modwright scored high on overall "musicality" and didn't fall too far in any other category. It's bass could be better, tighter, but it's satisfying. The Modwright wasn't offensive in any category, had a nice soundstage, good midrange, treble, vocals. One other person thought the Modwright was a tad warm. I liked the unit on female voices. I thought there was just a little less detail than on APL 3910, but not much. Very enjoyable, very easy to listen to.
The interesting player, to me, was the Esoteric DV-50. It was neutral, as compared to the other two players, in that it didn't have big plusses or minuses that were easy to identify. It was a solid performer but left me with the sense that it was just a bit damped sounding as compared to the other two units. By that I mean it sounded just a little less "in the room" and vibrant. Tom thought the unit sounded more exciting in his home system, so I don't think I am off in this regard. The Esoteric unit had good rhythm and pace, good bass, and was right behind the other units in the other categories. Bon commented that, compared to stock DV-50 units, Tom's modified unit had a large soundstage that didn't collapse. I would agree.
---
In the weeks leading up to this listening session, there was an incredible amount of vitriol expressed in this thread. That's unfortunate. I had never met Bon, Steve, or Tom and his sister before yesterday. They are all into music and very gracious. No one seized control of the event or demanded that everyone vote a certain way. Brian lent some discipline to the exercise, but that's about it. Steve ruffled some feathers coming into this. But after meeting him in person, I don't have any problem with him. I think he's a little like the Rodney Dangerfield of audio in that he is very vocal, and I can see how he could set some up-tight audiophiles on edge. But his APL 3910 is really good and I don't believe that he is into this for anything other than his own enjoyment in the privacy of his home. Steve really likes music and it's not more complicated than that. And the rest of us of enjoyed the music as well!
--- That's how I scored it, and why I scored it the way I did. Brian has laid out the equipment that was used; on a different day, with different cords/interconnects/speakers/amps -- sure, everything would have sounded a little different.
Thanks again to Brian, who donated his time and made his excellent system available. And thank you Steve, Bon, and Tom for making the effort and sharing your excellent gear for an afternoon.
we have been waiting for quite a while for this shootout, and no one has so far come clean with the details. I am sure thee is a signature to each one which pople can relate to and make decisions possibly as to which one for them is the best.
I get the feeling everyone got on too well, and politeness has been the order of the day. I am sure 711 smiling will soon make his voice heard loud and clear.
My specific ratings were DV50 (48) Modright (47) APL (47). Since my sister doesn't post, her preference was the APL, DV50, and Modright in that order. I don't know her exact scores, but they were as close as all the others. FYI, my sister has been involved in music for 35 years and currently sings with The Apollo Chorus of Chicago. She has great ears and a nice system of her own.
I would disagree with Eric on just one main issue. I thought the DV-50 clearly won the battle of detail retrieval. The only other area that I scored it clearly ahead was in bass definition. As far as the "damped" observation, I thought the DV-50 was playing at a slightly lower volume during its review which may account for this. Other than those thoughts, I have absolutely no complaints about the shootout, outcome, or any of the players.
Brian didn't say much in his first post, but I'm pretty sure I heard him say as he walked into his kitchen "call me crazy, but I thought the DV-50 was the best one." Since I don't know that he kept his scorecard, he'll have to elaborate.
Gee, Tom, did I say that? I was sitting way off to the side, although I found the DV-50 a bit more musical and involving than the APL although the Modwright did very well in these areas, while the APL and DV-50 had more detail and tighter bass. I'll look at my scorecard and the others to see if the numbers reflect that. Brian
By the way, my Nils Lofgren CD seems to be missing :-( Please look through your CD cases and players just in case. I offer a reward for its return. Brian
I wasn't accusing anyone and apologize if it sounded that way. It might have been put in another CD case accidentally. I looked around, but you never know, it might turn up. Brian
I haven't visited here in a long time but I must say, I've been living with my APL SS modified DV50 since last November. I couldn't be anymore satisfied than I am at the moment. This was the first Esoteric unit Alex had a chance to view under the hood and work his magic on. The results are stunning,, the only similiarity with the stock version is the faceplate and cover. Sonically this unit is up their with the very best offered in digital IMHO. Wonderfully transparent,,, velvety image float, high frequency's have lost their digital "edge", mids are smooth and liquid, and bottom end has a new found slam and punch not heard in the dv50 stock version. The APL modified DV50 has "soul" and throws a holigraphic soundscape. The APL "new and improved" seems to be the "poor man's" EmmLabs machine at a fraction of the $$, for which I am completely floored. I'm using a SS/Tube integrated for the last word in "tube magic" and its a home run! A ten on sonic delivery, a 12 on the value-performance ratio scale!
Well 711 Smilin, we are waiting for your response to the shoot-out at Mr. Walsh's! Bet it was a rather humbling experience, especially considering that Mr. Walsh and Tgun5 thought that Tguns SLIGHTLY MODDED Esoteric DV-50 sounded better than your FULLY MODDED APL Denon DVD-3910! And there was NO clear overall winner! And this was on a multi-thousand dollar AUDIOPHILE SYSTEM as you are fond of telling AVGURU. I figured by the way that you were always bragging on Alex and his APL Denon DVD-3910, and insulting and cutting down other peoples systems and players, that your APL Denon would absolutely walk all over and destroy these other players!Apparently that did not happen at all! For example you said that AVGURU's system sounded like Radio Shack, and his former DV-50 sounded like a toy, etc. He also called him a "HORSES ASS". Those kinds of remarks are totally uncalled for! I don't blame AVGURU for leaving this thread. Your arrogance over your APL Denon, your system, and yourself is, [or was], obnoxious. This thread should have been 711's, and should have been titled:"APL MODDED DENON DVD-3910:Any cdp's Significantly better"!! And Alex of APL, whats your response over the shoot-out? Just curious. If I have offended anyone..too bad..I tell it like I see it!
OK time to lighten up! Let Talk Music First! I want everyones vote for the Best CDs at this and previous shootouts! Artist, Album, Label catalog number and cut(s) where appropriate. And yes it can be your disc.
C'mon, audio girl, you are rehashing issues that have been resolved long ago. The "sounds like a rat shack system" comment was made a while ago by a clearly over exuberant 711, who has long since stated he was simply excited about his player and spoke rashly. I think it is obvious in all of this that 711 is only trying to find the best player for him, and I'm certain that when he finds one better than the apl, the cycle will start over.
I don't think audio girl you have offended anyone, but you just got in the discussion WAY late and brought up settled issues as if you were the first to discover them.
That being said, I WOULD love to hear 711's thoughts.
Jason If I have offended anyone, I tell it...and all that other nonsense that people like to say that doesn't have much meaning.
"You know what pisses me off? When people who ask what time it is constantly tap on their wrist while asking. I know where my damn watch is. I don't point to my crotch when asking where the restrooms are.
Brians missing CD was one of the outstanding recordings there. It's a little hard to find in stores and I had to order mine from Amazon. It is: Nils Lofgren, Acoustic Live. One of the others that made the Soundlabs "sing" was a SACD release on Proprius, Cantate Domino. Some of the selections others are now out of print, so I won't mention them.
In defense of 711...As far as meeting him for the first time, I found him to be a cool guy. He spoke his mind ,was funny, and brought some great wine that we all enjoyed. I never heard a detrimental thing from him during the entire session. I'm sure his initial comparison between a stock DV-50 and the Denon drove the comments to AVGURU. Although I would never descibe a stock DV-50 as a toy, the difference would make you excited about receiving an APL Denon. This was evident by the shootout. Can't speak for him regarding the argument, I just didn't find him to be mean-spirited.
Wow, After reading these last few posts, I myself, have lost faith in 711 smilin. He built his up his APL modded Denon DVD-3910 like it could beat almost any player out there, and he threw some pretty insulting remarks at AVGURU and his system in this thread. I would be EXTREMELY UPSET if such remarks were thrown at me and my system. I buy what I can afford, and if my system pleases me that is all that matters. This shoot-out just proves what I posted in my last thread on this post. [go back and read it]. There is NO BEST SOUNDING player out there. Its all a matter of personal taste and system synergy. AVGURU is a very nice guy and gives excellent advice. I have chatted with him via email several times and enjoyed his very detailed responses. I commend him for starting an excellent thread and trying to keep everyone in line. Great thread, Charles! I have gathered alot of helpful and informative information from this thread over the last 2 or 3 months. But, after reading some of the latter remarks and insults, I agree with Audio_girl. I don't blame AVGURU for "washing his hands clean" of this thread. And I have to agree that it did seem to be too APL oriented at times. Great shoot-out though, Brian! Bravo! Just proves that there is no BEST player out there! I think that all the modders out there should be commended for there excellent work and effort. Richard Kern, Dan Wright, Kyle and Doug at RAM, Walter at Underwood, Ric Shultz, Steve Nugent, and all others, should all be respected and considered for their excellent work and for making such vast improvements to stock machines. I feel that ANY of these guys could do mods to players that could make them rival, or surpass, ANY players out there, regardless of price or reputation! Hey Audio_girl, are you a female or are you a male? Just curious.
I would like to make a Couple comments about what has been said about my friend AVGURU's system. First,I have listen to AVGURU's system on many occasions and each time I have enjoyed myself. Second, I thought the DV-50 sounded great in his system lots of deatil and tight bass. Third,I am APPALLED by the name Calling of a certain Individual(you know who you are)!!!!!!!!! This is not KINDERGARDEN!!!!!!!!! Fourth, I think an APOLOGY should be given to AVGURU!!! Last but not Least,Lets all sit back and ENJOY THE MUSIC!!! Cheers, ALPHA3
Audio_girl, speaking of uncalled for remarks, you might take a look at yours. While I had a _slight_ preference for the modded DV-50 based upon limited listening well off center, that's what it was - slight. I could happily live with any of the three. I would prefer to let the others weigh in with their opinions, as they have more experience with them.
And yes, I agree with Kerry - let's post the list of CDs and cuts played. I don't have the list but know several of you wrote them down.
Can the participants break down their scores? Please list the categories and how you scored each contestant on each category. That way each viewer can see how you scored the players on the category they consider important.
Some of the numbers are relative in that it would have been more accurate to award .5's to a specific player in certain categories.
In that case, the totals might change a bit, but the order would not. I had a clear preference in my own mind for #1, #2, and #3.
Of all the categories, I had some trouble with "bloom," which I decided to treat more like "palpability." Maybe that is what Bon intended, or maybe not.
Fives were awarded when something jumped out at me as being especially noteworthy (in a good way). So when you see all three players receiving fours, that's my way of noting in some cases that all three performed very well in that category and I could not distinguish a clear leader or laggard.
I have started many messages that I was intending to post, but I deleted them.
You are right; slightly modded DV-50 is as good as or better than my Denon. Same applies about any stock, slightly or extensively modified digital player available on the market today. The difference between these is so subtle, so there is actually almost no difference just a matter of 1 or 2 points. I am sure that if the guy with the Meitner DAC6e and CDSD showed at this shootout, he would be really close in scores to all of these completely different sounding players (IMO) as well. Actually, the slightly modded DV-50 might be on the top of it as well.
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