Well, there was a lot less competition in Dante’s day. That’s for sure, eh?
Also I read Dante was significant for breaking with the tradition of writing in Latin, which only a few could read , but rather writing in teh vernacular which was accessible to more.
Hmm, Kinda sounds like the same story with Dylan, putting lyrics to music rather than merely writing poetry that few might read or know.
Maybe the two have more in common than we can even imagine.
If civilization survives to Y4K and historians remember the 20th century, they will likely underscore the significance of the counter-culture and its music that reified social and political currents during the first war lost by the USA. Dylan will be remembered above all other writers in this context.
One could argue as well that this award distinguishes the resurgence of the bardic tradition as a popular art form, in the context of a declining general readership for traditional literature and poetry. Maybe next go-round Trump will win one for his Twitter feed.
The further question is whether Dylan will acknowledge the committee and appear at the award ceremony. Clues may be found in the lyrics to Day of the Locusts on New Morning-- a song about his honorary degree granted by Princeton.
dgarretson 1,994 posts 10-19-2016 3:51pm If civilization survives to Y4K and historians remember the 20th century, they will likely underscore the significance of the counter-culture and its music that reified social and political currents during the first war lost by the USA. Dylan will be remembered above all other writers in this context.
Ironically perhaps Dylan would be the first to disagree with the counter-culture connection. Or being labeled a folk singer or representing the anti war movement or singing songs about or representing the counter-culture.
I certainly am no literary scholar, but I think I am safe in in agreeing with simao that Dylan is no Dante and will probably not be read in 2000 years or even be remembered. Will any Nobel winner, for literature or otherwise, be remembered in 2000 years, including the 2009 winner of the peace prize? I can't imagine so.
On second thought my previous post may be wrong. Perhaps the 2009 Nobel peace prize winner may be remembered as being in the eighth circle of The Inferno in Bolgia 5.
Great posts, both dgarretson and Geoff, even if they come from divergent points of view. Though it’s true his lyrics were indeed considered almost the soundtrack for the counter-culture movement of the 1960’s, Dylan has stated (in the 60 Minutes interview with Ed Bradley I believe, as well as elsewhere. Perhaps in Chronicles Vol.1?) that he feels little connection with that culture. Though he was instrumental in it’s creation and development, he walked away from it in 1966 when he went into isolation in Woodstock, reappearing in ’68 with a Country music flavored album. Country, music of the "redneck" culture, the antithesis of the civil rights and counter-culture movements. Dylan was instrumental in the creation of not only the counter-culture, but also the counter-counter-culture! His partners in crime in that movement were The Band, who put a giant photograph of themselves surrounded by all their family members and relatives on the inside of the gatefold album cover of their 1968 debut album, Music From Big Pink. This at a time when the war between the generations was raging. They were having none of that.
Dylan’s speech at the Grammy Awards ceremony in which he accepted his Album Of The Year award (for Time Out Of Mind) is really, really funny. It is in typical somewhat abstract Dylan style, obtuse to those who don’t understand him. The point of the speech was that rewards (not awards) of this life may, if one allows them, corrupt one’s soul. The part starting with the line "Well, my Daddy, he didn’t leave me much....." is nothing less than spitting in the face of the Academy and it’s awards. It is a quite obvious reference to lines in the Bible, another thing that separates him from the generally atheistic belief base of the counter-culture and it’s members.
bdp24, I remember that Grammy speech. I was watching him and I was thinking he was too far gone to even say something coherent. Then he sucker-punched me and knocked me out. It was a tremendous performance. Did no one check out the "Last Thoughts on Woody Guthrie" link posted earlier on this thread? It's worth the time.
I guess the number of my posts on the site are too few or too many for you? Whatever....
Neither the Pulitzer nor the Noble requires the nominated to submit an application, nor is the Pulitzer an equal to being knighted. I am not now nor was I ever a "fan" of Dylan with respect to those that are; the first record I ever purchased was "Blood On The Tracks," I'll turn sixty this year so that's rather a late arrival, don'cha think?
At least he wasn't nominated for an Oscar for Pat Garret.
I would hazard that Bob Dylan doesn’t like honours.
Like Feynman and all true driven creative intellectuals - they don’t do it for a reward or medal. The reward is the journey of discovery and a deeper understanding. A medal or award is nothing compared to nature’s pattern of beauty and majesty!
Banquet Speech Richard P. Feynman’s speech at the Nobel Banquet in Stockholm, December 10, 1965
Your Majesty, Your Royal Highnesses, Ladies and Gentlemen.
The work I have done has, already, been adequately rewarded and recognized.
Imagination reaches out repeatedly trying to achieve some higher level of understanding, until suddenly I find myself momentarily alone before one new corner of nature’s pattern of beauty and true majesty revealed. That was my reward.
Then, having fashioned tools to make access easier to the new level, I see these tools used by other men straining their imaginations against further mysteries beyond. There, are my votes of recognition.
Then comes the prize, and a deluge of messages. Reports; of fathers turning excitedly with newspapers in hand to wives; of daughters running up and down the apartment house ringing neighbor’s doorbells with news; victorious cries of "I told you so" by those having no technical knowledge - their successful prediction being based on faith alone; from friends, from relatives, from students, from former teachers, from scientific colleagues, from total strangers; formal commendations, silly jokes, parties, presents; a multitude of messages in a multitude of forms.
But, in each I saw the same two common elements. I saw in each, joy; and I saw affection (you see, whatever modesty I may have had has been completely swept away in recent days).
The prize was a signal to permit them to express, and me to learn about, their feelings. Each joy, though transient thrill, repeated in so many places amounts to a considerable sum of human happiness. And, each note of affection released thus one upon another has permitted me to realize a depth of love for my friends and acquaintances, which I had never felt so poignantly before.
For this, I thank Alfred Nobel and the many who worked so hard to carry out his wishes in this particular way.
And so, you Swedish people, with your honors, and your trumpets, and your king - forgive me. For I understand at last - such things provide entrance to the heart. Used by a wise and peaceful people they can generate good feeling, even love, among men, even in lands far beyond your own. For that lesson, I thank you. Tack!
From Les Prix Nobel en 1965, [Nobel Foundation], Stockholm, 1966
I any case, he was given the prize because of his great influence not because he is a great poet - that he is not. But perhaps Peace Prize would've been more appropriate.
+1
It was a political gesture more than anything.....like giving Obama the peace prize. Dylan should never be confused for a poet.
Along these same lines, Cohen was/is a better wordsmith IMO (and an actual writer.....).
There is a 7:55 minute video on YouTube, posted by what sounds like an academic who calls himself Nerdwriter1. It is entitled "Why Bob Dylan won the Nobel Prize: All Along the Watchtower explored". Here are the author's opening lines, spoken over the song as it plays: "There are some novels, some trilogies in fact, with less actual content than Bob Dylan's All Along the Watchtower. It's really astonishing what Dylan achieves in 12 lines, 130 words, and 2-1/2 minutes."
In his exploration, the author dissects the song in terms of literature, the Bible, and the song's place in Dylan's evolution as a songwriter. Well worth eight minutes of your time.
I’m playing with a guy who does a nice version of "Tangled Up In Blue", and I’m going to suggest adding "Watching The River Flow" to his repertoire. It’s a forgotten gem of a song from the early 70’s, performed in a blues shuffle feel. Real fun to play, I’ll bet.
This guy was just a country kid from Northern Minnesota doing his own thing who became the voice of a generation. Just imagine how difficult dealing with that level of "fame" must be. No wonder he frequently looks uncomfortable. No wonder he doesn't want to accept the award.
It is worth reviewing the criteria and nomination processes for the Nobel prizes. For example, the following are the only individuals who can nominate for the Prize in Literature: 1.
Members of the Swedish
Academy and of other academies, institutions and societies
which are similar to it in construction and purpose;
2.
Professors of literature
and of linguistics at universities and university
colleges;
3.
Previous Nobel Laureates in Literature;
4.
Presidents of those
societies of authors that are representative of the literary
production in their respective countries. The Nobel Committee for Literature sends invitation letters to persons who are qualified to nominate for the Nobel Prize in Literature. No one can nominate himself
or herself. Winners must be living; Nobel prizes are never given posthumously. In general, Nobel award winners are individuals whose work is disruptive in terms of influence on others working in the field and, especially, outside of the field.
While I greatly prefer the words, poetry, and music of Leonard Cohen, he was less influential than Dylan. . . unfortunately. Plus, he had a huge hiatus in productivity.
"No one can nominate himself or herself. Winners must be living; Nobel prizes are never given posthumously. In general, Nobel award winners are individuals whose work is disruptive in terms of influence on others working in the field and, especially, outside of the field."
There are a couple exceptions to the postumous award rule.
Posthumous Nobel Prizes From 1974, the Statutes of the Nobel Foundation stipulate that a Prize cannot be awarded posthumously, unless death has occurred after the announcement of the Nobel Prize. Before 1974, the Nobel Prize has only been awarded posthumously twice: to Dag Hammarskjöld (Nobel Peace Prize 1961) and Erik Axel Karlfeldt (Nobel Prize in Literature 1931).
Following the 2011 announcement of the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, it was discovered that one of the Medicine Laureates, Ralph Steinman, had passed away three days earlier. The Board of the Nobel Foundation examined the statutes, and an interpretation of the purpose of the rule above led to the conclusion that Ralph Steinman should continue to remain a Nobel Laureate, as the Nobel Assembly at Karolinska Institutet had announced the 2011 Nobel Laureates in Physiology or Medicine without knowing of his death.
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