Dumb question HT bypass

@fuzztone 
Sorry, responding to vinylshadow.

@fiesta75.

If you’re responding to me, I don’t even have line outs on my preamp. My 2 channel system is totally segregated., Jim Crow style. The surround sys has a seperate drinking fountain (power source.)

Yes, I reread your posts above and must have not read them correctly the first time. I thought you were connecting your preamp to the AVR then to your amps, my bad. I have found that keeping low level analog and digital signals in separate enclosures with separate power supplies yields the best result for a 2 channel system. Sorry for my confusion...

@fiesta75 

"Ok good luck. It is my opinion that you won't achieve good 2 channel sound that way."

fiesta75- Were you answering to me? I'm not certain...If so, can you describe why not?
It seemed to me that if I connected my phono stage and BluRay to the Rogue preamp, and then balanced I.C.'s out to my 2 Rowland monoblocks it would be good and proper 2 channel.

The only other connection is a balanced interconnect from my Classe AVR to the Rogue preamp for home theater. Thanks.

Ok good luck. It is my opinion that you won't achieve good 2 channel sound that way.  

@soix
" Ah, forgot you don’t have pre outs on your AVR. So, are you routing your stereo preamp line outs into your AVR?"
Sort of. A pair of XLR's from the Classe to the Rogue RP-7 for home theater. That's the only cables from my AVR.

My balanced interconnects that run to my Rowland Model 12's will be plugged into the Rogue preamp for straight up 2 channel. Same with my phono stage interconnects, BluRay and Node 2i interconnects.

I could connect my Node to my AVR for surround too. BluRay HDMI already in my AVR.

Ah, forgot you don’t have pre outs on your AVR. So, are you routing your stereo preamp line outs into your AVR?

Thanks. Since I have a Rogue Audio Ares Magnum tube phono stage, now I’m veering towards a Rogue Audio RP-7 tube preamp which gets rave reviews at a fair price. Likely a better match for my Model 12’s...
And maybe a SMSL SU-9 DAC.
Which DAC are you using?

vinylshadow. 

Sounds good for you. Good luck on your quest.
I have one fine DAC and it's for stereo only.

@fuzztone
I am dealing with this question as I speak. I have a Classe SSP-800 AV processor of which the 2 channel sounds good. But not the best it can be so I've been corresponding with the President of Classe, Dave Nauber about Classe's new Delta Pre preamplifier.
It has a pass through mode. I just need to remove the balanced XLR's to my Rowland Model 12 monblocks from the SSP and input them into the Delta Pre and get a set of balanced interconnects to connect the SSP and the Delta Pre in the XLR1 inputs and that's that. Just set the XLR1 source button for pass through.

The XLR1 pass through puts the Delta Pre on unity gain so I'll use the SSP's volume control, not the preamp's.

One nice thing about the Delta Pre is it has a DAC and a much better one than the 2009 SSP's. One not so nice thing is it has a phono stage which I don't need. But if anyone does, a cool feature is that you can change load and capacitance settings on the fly using the remote. No dip switches to access and change settings....

Apparently having a preamp handle the 2 channel in line with a Classe AV processor is more common than I thought....However, there are many preamplifiers that have theater pass through/unity gain. I am trying to suss out which preamp to get. Preferably also with a great DAC.

soix

Not on mine. The stereo's input is dedicated to the AVR.  It just sets as fixed the stereo's volume pad for that input so you can use the AVR master volume for all channels simultaneously..  Either your setup is different or it's not as obvious as you contend.  Either way it is not for me.  Have at it. 

I have found a more useful purpose.

Just to state the semi obvious, you don’t actually need an HT bypass as any line or tape input on the stereo preamp will work.  The main benefit of this is that it opens up tons more stereo pre options.  The bad news is you need to manually adjust the volume and push a button to switch between stereo and HT rather than just push a button.  Oh the humanity!  Sorry if this just complicates things further,  but I couldn’t help myself trying to help. 

Scolding?
I merely asked to avoid answering my posed question that was unrelated to the original.
Other than that I welcome critique if I'm unclear or wrong.

MC.
Give it a rest. More people enjoy their AVRs than you can process. Who cares WHAT your phobias are?

dbphd
I thanked ruebent quickly. Your point is?

I appreciate the discussion and have sorrow for the troll.

That does however explain his rejecting my perfectly good curb idea. Not complicated enough. 

@fuzztone
´´Please do not even attempt to explain how adding complexity makes 2 channel reproduction sound better. "Sugar" free for me.
I rescind my query for that. ´´

This was not my goal. I wrote about connections ….
But the idea of HTBP is precisely to have ´´ 2 channel reproduction sound better ´´ without using two
separated system .

If you can’t tolerate the ´´Sugar ´´ , why then are you asking how to cook using ´´Sugar ´´ in the first place ?

It may be for general knowledge, and that would be fine with me.

Why scold maxwave?

He has an AVR. Have you ever heard an AVR? Okay so you know how crappy they sound. Now imagine your life listening to an AVR. You would be out of your mind. So of course he is snippy and angry all the time. You would be too.

PS- From the Schumann thread:

Sarcasm and Satire, in my opinion, are some of the highest forms of humor! 

fuzztone, I think you had the answer in the post by reubent immediately following your original post. The sound quality of the front LR will depend on the quality of the DAC in the AVR. I doubt your contention that most who have an AVR also have a preamp (and presumably an amp) for stereo, but maybe so.

Why scold maxwave? I don’t understand the point of your penultimate paragraph, and if your ultimate paragraph is true why the OP in the first place?

The setup outlined by reubent works well. I use a processor and XLR cables rather than an AVR and RCA cables, but the principle is the same.

THAT is why it is so confusing. I, like most (maybe not here at Agon) have only an AVR for surround and a preamp for stereo. This was stated in the original post. Any alternative setups cannot contribute to any illuminative answers and only tend to cloud up the issue. They are best ignored. 
At least for dummies.

maxwave
Please do not even attempt to explain how adding complexity makes 2 channel reproduction sound better. "Sugar" free for me.
I rescind my query for that.

I do appreciate any knowledge gleaned and I WAS successful in a good use (for me) of the HT function on the pre. Without connecting it to the surround system.

I prefer to keep them seperate in the same room.

@reubent 

You are right.
Also, I was confused regarding ´´ pre out ´´  and ´´ power out ´´
I know how to do it ; but I am not the best to explain it : like sex :-)

@maxwave  - It would be the same with an AVR. The front L&R pre-outs form the AVR connect to the HT bypass inputs on the integrated amp (or pre-amp/amplifier separates). Only difference is that AVRs don't have XLR, only single ended RCA pre-outs.

I've done it several times over the years. Works fine and is a good way to have a no compromise 2-channel system, with added HT capabilities.

@fiesta75
@reubent
@fuzztone
I have a processor. The fronts speakers XLR cables ( and speaker’s cables) instead of being connected to a power amp.( like other speakers ) is connected to an integrated amp. with a HTBP.
I do not know about AVR. But if there are RCA or XLR outputs dedicated to connect to an external amp. , then , it is possible to use an integrated amp. with HTBP with your AVR.

PreAmp. with a HTBP is not the only way.
Integrated amp. with HTBP is another way if an AVR has a dedicated
external amp. connector ( XLR or RCA )

Seems like maxwave is confused, I know I am.

@fuzztone  - I think Max was referring to "Pre-Outs" when he said power out. @maxwave - please feel free to correct me if I misunderstood.

maxwave

That begs an explanation.  Anything?

The idea of a HTBP is not to have a better sound with the movies.
It is to have a better sound with your analog gears: turn table, sreamer , tuner, cd player , R2R tape player.
IMO

On your AVR , if you have ´´ power out ´´ , to connect the front speakers to another amplifier, ; then you can use a integrated amplifer with HTBP.

When using the AVR,( for movies ,etc ) only the power amp. section of the integrated will be used. This is where the ´´ bypass ´´ takes place.
Center and surrouds speakers will be played by the AVR.Fronts will be played by the integrated.

When using your analog sources,connected to the integrated ; the power amp. and preamp. sections of the integrated will be used.
That way your front speakers are connected to the integrated amplifire.Leaving the front speakers connections of you AVR unused. Only the fronts speakers will be played .

The bypass on the integrated shut down his preamp section.
Other wise , you would have two preamp. fighting each others :
preamp of integrated against the preamp of the AVR

With a HT processor , it is no probleme.

MC give it reat. Your contribution is totally superficial.. I knew you would not be able to resist your spewing.
I don’t put any countenance in what is preferred by you. Start your own post to repeat your silly mantra. Over and over and over.
If you had bothered reading you would know that mine are NOT connected and many of us enjoy good surround. Not like you.
Wah wah.

dbphd

I think you are correct in that with the normal connections one is not gaining much. Quality in DAC is as important as quality in speakers.

As I understand it, if you send HDMI to a processor or AVR that sends front LR to the by-pass input of a preamp, you're relying on the DAC in the processor, so it better be good.  I use a Bryston SP3, and its DAC appears to be very good.

The preferred method for HT bypass is to disconnect the AVR and leave it by the curb.

Excellent explanation. I do the same and actually rarely use my 5.1 preamp at all because it just doesn't sound very good compared to the preamp I use for stereo listening. I don't know of an AVR that has XLR's, but maybe. There are multi-channel preamps that have XLR's.

@reubent

Thanx Good explain.
Probably why I couldn’t get head around it, no pre outs on my AVR. 5.1 SQ now is quite enjoyable without extra cabling.
I knew that it was for sharing main speakers just not the logistics.
I actually asked for another brainstorm.
Thank ya.

Not sure if any AVRs have balanced pre-outs, but I use XLR cables from processor to preamp. Setup works just as Reuben describes. Source is either balanced stereo direct to preamp or HDMI to processor that sends balanced front LR to preamp.

L&R front pre-outs from the HT receiver, connected via RCA interconnect cables into the HT bypass inputs of the pre-amp or integrated amp. Once you have this external amplification connected to the receiver, re-run the receiver's setup routine to account for the different amplification specifications of this external amplification.

As you can see, the "add-on" HT does not affect your 2-channel system in any way, and the HT receiver does not even need to be turned-on to play 2-channel content (as long as you have your 2-channel sources connected directly to your pre-amp/integrated amp).

And when you want to play multi-channel/HT content, turn on the HT receiver, select the HT bypass input on the pre-amp/integrated amp, and now the amplification and speakers in your 2-channel rig become the front L&R amps/speakers for your HT/multi-channel rig.

I've done it several times, with different systems I own, since my 2-channel systems and HT systems are in the same room. Great, easy way to share your main speakers between the two systems, and not have any sound quality degradation from the (typically) compromised HT receiver.