Atmasphere >>You might know that I'm a tube amp manufacturer...This!
OP >> Yes... Ralph... I will try some of your suggestions. I have your M60's and have talked with you about upgrades
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I just integrated the DDRC-22D into my system and for my room, my limited ability to treat, and my configuration it was probably one of the best additions ever. It just “brought everything” together. Interesting... may try it. |
Won’t comment on if you do or don’t need a DSP. I’ll leave that to others who seem to know your system better than you do! ;-) I just integrated the DDRC-22D into my system and for my room, my limited ability to treat, and my configuration it was probably one of the best additions ever. It just “brought everything” together. I believe the ability to tweak the response curve was a definite improvement, but the adjustment to the impulse response probably made the biggest improvement, noticeably to the soundstage. Good luck! |
Roon has the ability to run DSP through the output. By all accounts this works very well, and at the price that Roon is, it is a very cost-effective solution. Of course that won't solve vinyl issues. And with CD would require the ripping and storing of the music. But if you do play your music from a digital source and just want dsp with no pre-amp or dac then this would be the best solution. |
Yes... Ralph... I will try some of your suggestions. I have your M60's and have talked with you about upgrades - though, I think mine have the 3.3. upgrades. I'll try the 16 ohm taps and maybe the 4 ohm taps to see if that makes a difference with the ARC 150se's. And I'm using Paul's cables, and have his Zeroformers, which I got for your M60's for my Maggies. But, as you know... the M30.1's and M40.2's have a bit of an emphasis in upper bass / lower mids, which I resolved with some good SS amps (the ones recommended by Harbeth)... but... I think I may prefer the sound of the ARC 150se, except for the bass bloat that is not there with the SS amps. |
audiophile quality DSP with balanced connections https://www.deqx.com/products/premate-plus/ http://www.accuphase.com/model/dg-68.html |
There is no problem with my Hegel H590 or Class D Audio SDS 470C amps, just my ARC Ref 150se. So... it's not the room... its the amp.You might know that I'm a tube amp manufacturer (that also holds a patent in class D amps as well). Take it from me on this bit (since the solid state amp is fine, we'll assume that a DBA isn't needed): speaker cables can affect tube amps a lot more than they affect solid state! So I have two recommendations: try several different cables and keep the cables as short as you can: under 3 feet if possible, and make sure the connections are tight. I would also try different taps on the output transformers of the amp as that affects things too- sometimes counter to what you might expect. |
This has balanced connections it's about the cheapest EQ that might work for you. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FBQ1502HD--behringer-ultragraph-pro-fbq1502hd-15-band-stereo... |
which is primarily the result of room issues and secondarily related to the more limited control by tube ampsWhen you have bass problems in a room, the number one reason is standing waves. These cannot be controlled by DSP or room treatment. The problem is that the room has a dimension and bass waves will reinforce at certain frequencies and cancel in others. So unless your bass traps are actively able to move about the room as the bass notes change they will have little effect. DSP doesn’t work because it tries to make your amplifier put out more power at one frequency and less at another. But when you are dealing with a standing wave you might be able to kill a bit of bass bloat at one frequency but you can put as much power as you want into the bass nulls and the waveforms will still cancel. So its only slightly more effect than bass traps. If you really want to deal with this problem, the elegant way to do it is to use a distributed bass array which can break up standing waves, resulting in evenly distributed bass throughout the room. Do do this, you take advantage of the simple fact that below about 80Hz in all but the largest rooms, the ear cannot detect where the bass is coming from so you can run the bass in mono. But it is important that the subs do not reproduce anything above 80Hz; in this way they will not attract attention to themselves. You’ll need at least four subs to do this right. They need to be asymmetrically placed in the room and therefore do not have to be aligned with your Harbeths. One sub system called the Swarm (www.audiokinesis.com) is also the most well-known sub designed for this purpose. To minimize their size they are designed go directly against the wall and take advantage of the room boundary effect, to go flat to 20Hz. You might want to check into this; if your tube is a typical push-pull amp with some power to drive Harbeths, the bass bloat likely has nothing to do with the amp. |
I do have DSPeaker Antimode 2.0, which I’m going to try... but... thought there may be others, which may do a better job. And... I have no interest in any DSP which provides a DAC and preamp, as the DSPeaker does - I need neither of those. And I have no interest in room treatments. All I need is a DSP with balanced XLR connections. |
You need to see my other discussions for my complete set up - I've been through all the alternatives... and... have found the solutions. At this point, I'm just wanting to know the best DSPs to resolve bass bloat (which is primarily the result of room issues and secondarily related to the more limited control by tube amps).... |
to tame the bass bloat in my Harbeths when driven by tube amps Sounds to me like its nothing to do with the speakers, or the room, and DSP certainly is not the answer. You're trying to make your tube amps have the same thin unsatisfying bass as solid state. I have a better solution: get used to it. If anything maybe try and figure out how to find SS amps that have as good bass as your tube amps. I know. But you can always try. |
running harbeths and tubes as well. i have tamed bass quantity and peak issues with the following- 1 modify speaker position- away from all walls, screens, cabinets and surfaces as much as possible, min 2 feet all directions. 2 stands- open frame stand with harder dots. soft dots between speaker and stands cause bloat. use clear silicone bumpers. 3 tubes- different small signal tubes will help drastically with bass bloat. new production and nos tubes seem to be bass heavy, e.g. eh, jj,, brimar. try some mazda or amperex, amperex off label. 4 cables, interconnects- different cables tend to be bass heavy. try van den hul, nordost, audience for less bass bloat. all of the above can add together and should be optimized individually. when you have done your best i doubt you will need DSP. |
When I had the Harbeth 40's and need to control the bass in my listening room I used a Vandersteen High-Pass filter between my ARC ref3 preamp and my Pass 250.5 or Quicksilver V4's. This solved the problem for all of my sources. You should call JohnnyR at the Audio Connection to talk about this. Good Luck! |