Downsizing from VPI HW-19

What tone-arm are you using with the VPI ? If the VPI has a sping suspension you should replace the springs with some sorbothane pucks !

Ugh. I don’t even know what all this fussing is about. It sounds a right mess. No. Don’t replace the springs. It will deaden the sound. It sounds like it needs a good service by a dealer. I moved from a LP12 many years ago to a serviced 401 and never have to fiddle with anything. It just sings.

When the three screws are set properly there will not be any advantage to getting a lesser table. Once you screw up the cart alignment on the new one you’ll have the same problem - lack of skill and experience. For the record, if you have concrete floors, dump the springs for the pucks.
The MK IV responds extremely well to tweaks. My best tweak was the sapphire thrust pad and ceramic bearing from Applied Fidelity($195). I found that replacing the springs, feet and clamp were all well worth the investment too. If you have a period JMW 10 arm, my mods are listed at http://vpiindustries.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4881. The improvements are over-the-top phenomenal. All table and arm mods were applied over the last three years.

I recently purchased an EAT (European Audio Team) C Major that came with an Ortofon Quintet Blue MC cartridge, arm, record clamp and dust cover.  This set up was only 2500 (but was originally 3500).  The tone arm is phenomenal and seemingly worth what the entire package cost and the high output MC cartridge came already aligned from the factory.  This deck is extremely compact and free of fuss.  The plinth, like the tone arm is made of carbon fiber and it all just exudes quality.  I have it matched with a Primaire R32 Phono Pre-amp (1000), Unison Research Preludio integrated amp (4200), Opera Loudspeaker Secondas (4200), Audioquest cabling & AC power center and the sound is unbelievably satisfying.  The speed is rock solid steady, and the play back is ultra quiet.  The sound is layered with air, detail, emotion, and warmth and will bring a smile to any listener's face.  EAT previously only made very expensive analog rigs (10k to15k) but this new model is a very successful attempt at offering high quality for a reasonable amount.  For a grand more, you can get the C Minor which adds a separate speed controller, 10" instead of a 9" arm, an even better cartridge & a more robust record clamp.  Both of these choices offer extreme value in a compact turntable system and come highly recommended.

Get an old AR turntable for $100.00 and pretend it sounds good.

I've been looking at this one for a while. The only thing I can say is that you shouldn't be having these problems. Either you are not setting the TT up right, or something may be broken. At the very least, I would take it to someone who can check it out and do a proper setup. If you don't have anyone local, post and I can recommend a few people that really know what they are doing.

Pioneer PL-L1000 resored and serviced deck will indeed be a good swap.
It's one of the non-sophisticated tangential tracking arm design that will be no compromise to VPI deck which is do my belief primitive (sorry for owners). All you need to do is place record on platter and push button and sophisticated and very well engineered mechanizm will do the rest of business.

@mb1audio - yeah, I wonder if the spindle is slightly off. But it shouldn't be as that has never moved. However, I do plan on taking it  to a local auto shop for servicing. Just to see what they can do with the screws, etc. I did replace the springs are year ago. 

@wlutke yes, it is a case of a lack of skill and experience, but I'm not sure how much time I'm willing to invest in the learning curve. 

I sympathize, simao. You should not have to tweak and tweak and tweak. It should be at your convenience, not a TT dictat.

Sounds like a tonearm problem to me. I don't like to set up every time, and yet I get near-optimal sound.

If you position your cartridge exactly right for your thinnest records, then they will be just a little tail down on your thickest records, which is just a little on the mellow side (for my Koetsu).

I think that you are wise to get your TT serviced at this point, and get the tech to spend some time on a good set-up for a thin record. Then revisit the issue.

Like all machines, this one may need servicing, too. I really do appreciate all your advice and cautions. I don't need to tell you that the sound and immersion I get from vinyl is so enveloping, so palpable. And I don't want to lose that. But I also don't want to spend every listening session listening to the equipment, either.

@terry9  By thin record, you're talking 150g or less, right?

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Sim, I just mean the thinnest which you play. I play all the way from about 80g up - some of those old editions are mighty flimsy.

simao - There's no real learning curve on a -19 Mk IV.  But the springs must be replaced with pucks and the cartridge carefully aligned.  Fremer has an OK description of cartridge set-up.  VTF, once set, shouldn't need to be reset unless there are problems with the arm / counterweight.  

What is your location?  Maybe you could get help from a forum member or two.

Here's what I did (flamesuit on) ... same table, 12.5 Memorial arm, etc. ... got tired of the urge to tweak and play, and removed everything except the motor ... bask in simplicity ... move motor over, and connect motor to platter via dental floss ... enjoy. Okay, we also measured the heck out of everything along the way and discovered it's actually a teeny bit quieter. All due, I believe, to eliminating all the extra spinning things and belts...Oh, and those bladder things, etc., toss them out and go, like VPI did, to handballs. Seriously, VPI used handballs. Or was it squash balls?

Here's an article on TT setup. The person who wrote it was considered to be one of the very best in the industry.

http://brooksberdanltd.com/turntable-setup-by-richard-hardesty

simao,

I have almost 3 decades of experience with my VPI jr that morphed into a VPI Mk IV with all of the extras most haven't experienced. From 1992 - 2013.

I went through installing a SAMA at one point. In order to make it work properly, depending upon which iteration of the SAMA.. mine is the later version, the earlier ones were a cylindrical enclosure, I had to modify the back left corner block in order fro the SAMA to sit in the correct position for proper speed (assuming you are without a SDS). I've been through ALL of the trials and tribulations. I have my modified HW-19 base that accepts all of my years of experience/parts and included would be my knowledge and help and accessories in order to get you up and running with the TT you currently own and love.

If you're interested, shoot me a PM.

Cheers.

I even made a one-of-a kind tool that you can use to lift the plinth out of the base from above.

Cheers!

Anyone here looking for drop in high quality alternative for a stock VPI HW-19 Mk IV, I've got what you need..

(1) Oak base modified to accept my long history with the best alternative to VPI's springs/or pucks. I've got the replacements included.
(2) I have a Mk IV plinth that I used with my upgrades.
(3) The base includes Edensounds bearpaw jrs.
(4) I have an original, one owner (me) VPI tall dust cover, all hardware included.
(5) I have a, (one of THE best VPI platters (non-inverted bearing type) w/ the bearing that I hate to let go but may be persuaded if the price is right.

There may be more...

Your one-stop guy here.

Cheers!

Hey all,

So - here's some resolution of sorts to this issue.

Thank you to everyone for all their advice. I tried a dial out indicator and that didn't help at all so,  sparked by the idea of servicing the turntable, I contacted VPI, who gave me the contact info of their "dealer" in my area, whom I then contacted.

He and I talked and he gave me a detailed primer on what to do before I brought it in - including checking the spindle and the bearing well for all sorts of contamination. Which indeed I did. Yes, there were a few cotton fibers down in the well, and I cleaned all the old oil and debris out (old by about a year and a half or so) and dropped 2-3 drops of 10W-40 oil into the well. I kept the same bearing, though, for now.

Then, I carefully placed the platter back onto the spindle, seated it, then adjusted those three pesky leveling screws until each was equal in terms of tension. I then placed a GeoDisc onto the platter to check my cartridge. All of a sudden there was a palpable "thwock" and the platter dropped another half-inch or so onto the spindle -- thus seating itself firmly where it should have been all this time.

Lo and behold the platter spun level. Now, was this because I inadvertently leveled off all three screws? Had the platter not been properly seated on the spindle before? Had the spindle not been seated in the well? Don't know, But massive platter is as level as it's ever been.

And now I have a new audio destination: Defiance Audio - about 20 minutes away from me. A maker of speakers and an ersatz VPI dealer, Adam at Defiance talked me through troubleshooting the VPI and I'm looking forward to visiting his workshop and hearing his speakers.

And thank you to all here on this forum.