Doing the Power Cord Thing

Does not compute...not if great music is the goal and the cost is that low!  Buy more music silly 😜 

Why on earth would I want to stop doing DIY? That IS my audio hobby.


Best,
E

Try the Anticables 3.1 Reference PC $330 with 30 day returns.  It eliminates the DIY Syndrome and slays almost any other PC available.  If it’s results and music that matter most...not self inflicted pain.

Sorry Builder3 I may have misunderstood.


I'm going to leave everything in place for a while, for now I have other priorities and I'd like to spend less time on my hands and knees crawling around the stereo racks. :)


Best,

E

Afraid of having nice tools? That's your takeaway? (I have tons of very nice tools) Phillips screwdrivers are numbered to denote the different sizes of tips. When you were talking about the wire you used for the power cord you built, did you refer to it as "medium" or "big"?? No..... Hence the C'mon, Erik.
As for the factory cord, I wasn't suggesting that you don't "save it", merely that you "try it".
I have fun. I mean, I haven't named my amp, but I have fun.
Later

The thread where @builder3 reveals:

• He is afraid of having nice tools
• Has no fun

I am saving the factory coord for when I go back to Class D. 😀

Fine Phillips head and coarse Phillips head? C'mon, Erik. :)
(I think you should try the factory power cord. Mine was very good)

If anyone wants to see or build the same power cord I made, please see here:

https://inatinear.blogspot.com/2019/04/mistress-lillys-new-shoes.html

@builder3

I have tried everything BUT that cord. :)  As I wrote, I tried something far worse, a PC, 16 gauge cord, thin as a pencil. Seemed OK. Hard to justify $100 I spent building mine on sonic merits.

It looks really nice though! :)


Best,
E

They enjoy the sweet hell of their creation and there’s no one gonna tell them any different.  Enjoy!

Well, it is true that the particular wire I am using is notoriously brittle. Doing your own reliability and quality engineering is part of DIY. Brother let me tell you about the steam powered rocket ship I'm trying to build ... :D


Truth is when it comes to IC's I gave up on them. I have a box full of WW Eclipse 6, and compared ot them, the pure silver, balanced and shielded is either good enough for me or I'm not bothering.  I have about 4 pairs of IC's I've built, and unfortunately all the other's are far longer, hence the switch.


When it comes to speaker cables, I realized after doing some single blind testing that the cables I liked were actually making things worse. I was trading a lot of mid-treble energy for imaging.


As for the power cable, I don't know if it sounds exactly like a commercial cable, because so far I really can't hear a significant difference from it to 16 gauge plain black. I'm not made of cash, so instead of others suggesting I buy off the shelf cables it would be nice if others built these cables instead. :)


Of course, it is about time for my hearing to deteriorate as well, so we can make that argument, in which case I think what's important is that I not buy stuff I can't hear a benefit from.

I was one of the first to employ the services of a cryo lab for audio stuff. There were some manufacturers employing cryo by the end of the 90s, including Meitner and a bunch of cable companies, later on some aftermarket fuse manufacturers and some speaker manufacturers, certain turntable manufacturers, and so forth. But the unsung hero is actually Peter Belt, who promoted using the home freezer for CDs, LPs, cables, CD players, etc. as a more convenient and cheaper way to get the same sort of effects as real cryogenic treatment. Peter Belt was promoting freezing before cryogenics was a blip on the audiophile radar.

Erik, I'm curious if you ever actually tried the factory cord. I think Luxman supplies a pretty good one, I'd be interested to know how it compares.

Curious if there is agreement that if Erik built a power cord using the same exact wire and end pieces as a ready to buy PC, that it would sound identical to the ready to buy PC?

Self delusion does wonders for ones psyche!

Its always funny to make your own things.  And better when they work close to your expectations.  Did they do the cryo thing back in the 90's?

Ah, we have a psychologist on the forum. Sweet! 🤗

Some people are masochistic.  They enjoy the sweet hell of their creation and there’s no one gonna tell them any different.  Enjoy!

What I don't think @millercarbon will ever quite understand is that he will never have more fun spending money as I have building stuff.


This is after all a hobby, not a vocation. :D
Best,
E

No, what's convinced me about what expensive gear buyers can hear is from personal observations in the stores.

I wanted to go from a 2m pair to 1m, of the same kind. When I did, the left side was just a little low. Probably less than 2 dB. I replaced them with a pair of WW Eclipse 7 Gold I wasn’t using which were the right length. I had gotten frustrated with the huge connector sizes in a previous cabinet, which led me to DIY a lot of my cables.

Anyway, the WW 7 fixed the problem, I clearly have a fault in the DIY cables.

My point is, honestly based on buyers I have seen at stores sellers convince to spend $2k on a power cord, 95% of them would never have noticed this

.

So let me get this straight. You built a DIY so bad the left doesn't even sound like the right. Then you "fixed the problem" with a cable you paid a lot more for. And THAT convinced you that 95% of expensive cable buyers can't hear? 

http://i.imgur.com/Z9F4SCr.jpg

Erik,
Is it possible to show your finished cable?

Kind of on a related note, I was trying to clean up my cabling, and I have several lengths and kinds of balanced IC’s, most of which I made from DH Labs pure silver wires.

I wanted to go from a 2m pair to 1m, of the same kind. When I did, the left side was just a little low. Probably less than 2 dB. I replaced them with a pair of WW Eclipse 7 Gold I wasn’t using which were the right length. I had gotten frustrated with the huge connector sizes in a previous cabinet, which led me to DIY a lot of my cables.

Anyway, the WW 7 fixed the problem, I clearly have a fault in the DIY cables.

My point is, honestly based on buyers I have seen at stores sellers convince to spend $2k on a power cord, 95% of them would never have noticed this.

In my experience, it's impossible to make categorical statements about whether a DIY build can compete with a manufacturer's finished cable.

I think making categorical claims is, in general, foolhardy. Especially based on small, or single samples. I'm only working through what I can, and having fun with tools while I go along.

"So far, I've heard apologists and personal attacks. 

Either I haven't built a cable using good enough parts, or I haven't gone through the appropriate rituals (stretching, cryogenic treatment, etc). "

One needs thick skin to post on audio forums these days I'm afraid. A big problem with the sort of question the OP asks is that responses reflect each individual's experiences and we tend to think our particular audio experiences are universally relevant. After forty years in this hobby, I still am amazed at how performance expectations based prior experiences and products can be overturned in the context of new components or systems. 

FWIW, I've tried numerous DIY powder cords over the last twenty years or so. In my experience, it's impossible to make categorical statements about whether a DIY build can compete with a manufacturer's finished cable. Some think that the connector's are more important to the end result than the cable and if that's the case, that is one area where the DIY builder can gain a leg up on the price/performance ratio of ready made cables. I had surprisingly positive results using inexpensive Home Depot Carol 12/3 a/c cable off a reel combined with Furutech Fi-28 connectors when I needed an 11' foot power cable to test a system reconfiguration. I ended up using a Wireworld Eclipse a/c cable in that application in the end, but the DIY was quite close in performance. On the other hand, DIY versions of Chris VenHaus' "Flavor" cords did nothing positive for me in any application I tried at the time. Furutech's newest bulk FP-S  and DP-S cords have been well reviewed and my experiences with the FP-SO22n on sources have been very positive when compared to other Wireworld, Harmonic Technology, Shunyata, DH Labs, and Mojo Audio manufactured cords. I've built a 20 amp cable with bulk Harmonic Technology AC-11 wire, Furutech Fi-25g, and a Hubbell H320 c-19 connector that sounds very comparable to a Shunyata CX/HC Black Mamba. I do take a lot of care to strip the conductors with no nicks, clean and polish blades of connectors, and apply small amounts of Pro-Gold to mating surfaces prior to assembly. 

Finished adding red TechFlex and black adhesive lined shrink wrap today. Also took apart the female section. The Connex connector is super nice, and the individual prongs come out super easy.


I was a little worried that during conductivity testing before I had loosened them up, so I took the opportunity to tighten them again. Made a little difference on insertion. That hard rhodium plating is super smooth though, so it always feels a little too easy, or maybe the spring force is reduced due to the hardness?


In any event, the cable is reassembled, re-routed and reinserted. This would have been much much easier if I had done this all before hand though.

I have had $4000 power cords and $330 power cords. Equipment dependent ultimately, but the Anticables 3.1 Reference is so damn good...it just let’s my amp do it’s best with clarity, dynamics and extension beyond reproach plus exquisite tone. I prefer my Transparent Reference on my CDP limit noise, but for $330 the Anticables is amazing.

If you consider my comments a personal attack, that certainly wasn’t my intent, Erik. I’m always surprised by people that post their thoughts and are then upset when every other person doesn’t agree. Stereos, cats, widgets, doesn’t matter. I’ll refrain from posting on any of your threads from here on out.

So far, I've heard apologists and personal attacks.


Either I haven't built a cable using good enough parts, or I haven't gone through the appropriate rituals (stretching, cryogenic treatment, etc).


No one considers that maybe whatever these cables need to fix my environment doesn't need it fixed. :D

I've never heard a $2000 power cord that I know of. You brought it up. The most expensive one I've ever heard is the one I just bought that was about $500.

I did. What is your point? Here is one but not the only example:

https://www.thecableco.com/cardas_audio.html?cat=85

I understand putting your own stuff together solely for the experience.

I didn't say it was the only reason. I said it wasn't a cost saving one.

But it's more than a little disingenuous to then compare it to something that's 20 times the money, and imply that they're somehow the same.

That logic fails since there's absolutely no requirement for a product value to match it's asking price.


By the way, the point of this thread was really for me to talk about building my own cable and whether or not I can hear a meaningful difference given that this is a genuine audiophile build and the previous cable was probably from a PC.


If there are cables you feel are worth their price, feel free to share your experience. Just don't expect me to have the same.

04-20-2019 4:47pmI bought the 507 because I could hear the value.


I have yet to hear $2,000 worth of value in a power cord.


The con men and the conned.


Also, I never built the cable components purely because I wanted to save $16. I bought it for fun. :)

I've never heard a $2000 power cord that I know of. You brought it up. The most expensive one I've ever heard is the one I just bought that was about $500. I was a skeptic, until I heard it. Anyone could've heard the difference, it was amazing. I'm sure that's not always the case.
I understand putting your own stuff together solely for the experience. But it's more than a little disingenuous to then compare it to something that's 20 times the money, and imply that they're somehow the same.

The $2,000 vs $126 power cord test.

Purchase one each of these cables.  Cut off the EIC ends that plugs into the amp.  Separate and strip the wires.  Plug in each cable, one at a time, placing the striped wire ends on any part of your body.  This test may be performed as a blind test with eyes closed.  

Spend countless hours on A'gon explaining that the results obtained from the $2,000 power cord were far superior to that of the $126 cord.

I bought the 507 because I could hear the value.


I have yet to hear $2,000 worth of value in a power cord.


The con men and the conned.


Also, I never built the cable components purely because I wanted to save $16. I bought it for fun. :)

You could also have saved money by not buying your 507 amp and listened to music on your phone instead. Apples and oranges, comparing the two is pointless.
I certainly don't fault you for building your own power cord, but comparing it to anything that's $2000 is absurd. You could've bought the cord you built from DH Labs for $126.

Just got a shipment from Parts Express to help me clean up my cable. Shrink wrap, Techflex and some tools.


It won't change the sound, but it will improve the color scheme and make me feel a little better about the look.

:)

when looking to buy a power cord for say a amp, how do you know which one to get ?  

 does a company make a power cord to sound a certain way ?

Buy nothing you can't hear value in yourself.


The claim is that power cords can make all sorts of audible effects come out, almost none of which I have experienced. My current thinking on power cables and conditioners is here:

https://inatinear.blogspot.com/2019/04/power-management-for-frugal-audiophiles.html

I think, if you can hear audio cables, their effect is best when power is worst, so my advice is in general to get a good conditioner, and modest power cables.

Making your own cable, power or whatever, for $100 is one of the cheaper funs you can have. It does not really matter if mids are more organic and blacks are blacker. You can always convince yourself they are, but actually constructing something is worth the price of admission.

when looking to buy a power cord for say a amp, how do you know which one to get ?   

 does a company make a power cord to sound a certain way ?

You can’t judge a book by looking at the cover. The secrets are hidden.

You can buy different materials to use, including silver content or even silver cables. Cold welding is actually just the industry standard for how you make cables in bulk.


Interestingly enough, all those you listed are as far as I know, nearly completely impossible to measure at this point in time:

1. cryogenic treatment
2. control of directionality
3. cold welded connectors
4. continuous cast copper and long grain copper
5. silver added to connectors
6. gold added to the silver
7. Highly polished conductors

So for the DIYer, unobtanium. An exclusive feature you cannot make yourself. Cool, does it do anything?


Maybe resistance would be an effect of the cold weld and cable content but we are in the range of milli and micro Ohms.

Of the types of things I would have listed as being measurable and having a possible impact are:

1. Cable geometry
2. Shielding
3. Ferrites or other filtering components used in the construction.

It is my theory, that the most effect people hear is when they are not using an adequate conditioner.

You can’t judge a book by looking at the cover. The secrets are hidden.

Examples:

1. cryogenic treatment
2. control of directionality
3. cold welded connectors
4. continuous cast copper and long grain copper
5. silver added to connectors
6. gold added to the silver
7. Highly polished conductors

To clarify, I meant that there was savings in two ways:

1 - Not buying a ridiculously over priced power cable
2 - Building your own.

Could I replicate the unobtanium claimed by these exotic makers ? No. Do I need them? No.


Best,
E

Nope.

Plenty of $2,000 power cables out there.

When you are not buying $2,000 power cables, but DIY'ing for $100, you are saving money. :)

I assume this is a typo, and you meant $200, not $2000.

Midareff1,


Were your tests straight to the wall, or after a conditioner?

Best,
E

I tried several different power cords in an audition process. Did not hear any difference despite hearing large changes in various interconnects and speaker wires in the system. Since you have no control over the miles of transmission lines, the local transformers, the distribution wires in your neighborhood and the wiring in your home spending big money on the last few feet of electrical cable seems silly to me, unless you are doing a full power conditioning setup where you can dial in voltage and cycles, other than to make sure it has very sufficient conductor size for maximum power needs. I don’t think I would use anything with a capacity less than 12 gauge on any amp of respectable power.

For PC, I can see myself not spending much over 100 to 200 per cord. Truth be known its carrying power and I personally believe like mentioned above u change one thing for another.  Really the change in sound is personal preference.  As far as me buying new cords in that range would be, because I need something to buy. Lol, got to keep it fun. If I was to make my own PC cable, it would be for fun and satisfaction of making something.  Same satisfaction I get when I do wood working.  Building something I can call my own. Keep up the great work Eric and anyone else who is a DIY.  If it wasn't for DIY crowd, your car stereo would be in a horse and buggy.

There IS no ’saving money’ making them yourself. Just a different sound, maybe.

When you are not buying $2,000 power cables, but DIY'ing for $100, you are saving money. :)

But you are right in that it is difficult to take a DH Labs cable and make the exact same cable they do for less. However, buying Connex (Parts Connexion) connectors you can actually save a little, plus the ability to make custom lengths can be really convenient.