I leave my yba pre and 600 power amp on 24\7 the instruction manual recommends this.It runs cool anyway even after a long listening session. |
Almarg's post of 12-17 is spot-on:
"The OP might consider asking the manufacturer how much AC current or power the specific model draws at idle...I suspect that the sonic benefit of leaving it on all the time will be minimal."
In fact I was considering the Moon NEO 330 amplifier (250 wpc into 4 ohms) and asked exactly that. It draws 40W in standby, as pointed out in Almarg's post - not a true standby. For me, and given the recent 40% increase in electric costs in Boston, this is too much, economically and ecologically. We light our kitchen with less than 40W using LED's. To their credit Simaudio acknowledes this and says they are working on a true soft-start.
It is easy to look up the temp curves for power bipolar transistors. The effects are very small for normal room temps. So, unless your amp runs hot and with minimal or no feedback or active bias, any effect would be minimal.
Went with ATI - a true standby/soft-start with active bias. The newer thermal track transistors (also used by McIntosh in the MC452 and other models) would also render this question essentially moot. |
Hi Mtrot, what amp breaker are you useing on your krell 400cx?, do you have a dedicated line for your amp?, I can help you here if you answer, may be able to get your amp to run alot cooler and smoother, more dynamic, speed, etc... |
Yes, I do leave it turned on (tube amps, no). I read somewhere that turning your amp on and off is actually harder on the equipment than just leaving it on all the time. I'm sure there are other items around the house that we leave on all the time. Clocks come to mind...
It's kind of funny to hear you guys break down the cost ($20-$30 per year) when you probably have $500 speaker cables... Yes, I'd like a super sized big mac combo with a diet coke please, I'm watching my weight ;) |
All due respect to Schubert, but you don't turn off your refrigerator when you leave the house. I have been an appliance service technician for thirty six years and have seen appliances that came very close to starting a fire but haven't.
I would not be apprehensive of leaving the amp on. Whatever you are comfortable with. |
When I had my Simaudio i7 integrated I left it on all the time, but on standby when not playing. This is strongly suggested by Simaudio.
"The Standby button disengages the input section from the rest of the i7's circuitry and turns off the digital display. However , when in Standby mode all audio circuitry remains powered up to help maintain optimum performance." (from the Simaudio manual) |
Well , it may depend on where you live .
I live in the lightening capital of the country !
I have , so far , lost a microwave oven , television and a heat pump compressor to lightening strikes !
Good luck . |
Based upon the recommendation I got from McCormack, I would leave my DNA-1 Deluxe turned on 24/7. They claim it definitely sounds better that way.
But, I now am using a Krell FPB 400cx, and, because it gets so dang hot I just can't make myself leave it on all the time. I guess I just have fears that anything that gets that hot may be a fire hazard. And it does seem to sound better after a couple hours. |
I run my Parasounds 2003mod/5250v2 & Pioneer 74-txvi 24-7.
They defiantly sound better, oppose to turning them off. |
by all means...had i3 and i5.3...on all the time...sims are build to last. |
Very good post Almarg, I enjoy good explaination's. |
12-16-14: Melbguy1
To summarize, there are no hard and fast rules. The benefits of keeping a (solid state) amp switched on all or most of the time vary from amp to amp. But rule of thumb, large amps with oversize power supplies and filter banks will generally benefit more from being left on as it takes the psu's longer to warm up and reach optimal thermal conditions. +1 It seems to me that the responses so far have generally not given adequate focus to the specifics of the OP's amp. He has not indicated what specific model it is, but perhaps it is one of the three integrated amp models in the Moon Neo series, which the manufacturer recommends be left on continuously. These are described as providing a standby mode, but apparently all it does is to "disengage the input section from the rest of the circuitry." The three models operate in Class AB, and have 8 ohm power ratings of 40, 50, and 100 watts respectively, and twice as much into 4 ohms. AC current draw is not specified, at idle or otherwise. Shipping weights are specified as 20, 22, and 28 pounds respectively. The OP might consider asking the manufacturer how much AC current or power the specific model draws at idle. It could be that it won't be a great deal more than is drawn by many source components (which many audiophiles leave on all the time), especially if it is one of the two lower powered models. On the other hand, though, consistent with Melbguy's comment that I quoted, given the relatively light weight of these models (relative to their power ratings and class of operation) I suspect that the sonic benefit of leaving it on all the time will be minimal. As far as the safety issue is concerned, it's hard to disagree with what Schubert and Minorl have said. On the other hand, though, if it can be determined that the AC draw is low at idle, and if nothing on the amp seems to be particularly warm when it is idling, leaving it on all the time would seem to be relatively low risk compared to many other amps. Regards, -- Al |
@Grannyring, yeah I had no issues with leaving my Boulder 1060 switched on 24/7 when for example I was on holiday (but still at home), or on the weekend. The big bullet-proof Boulder definitely benefited from being left on and sounded more liquid and musical as a result. That said, I wouldn't leave a Class A amp on 24/7 due to excessive energy usage & heat issues with some amps such as Pass. Also, constant thermal cycling places extra stress and wear on the amp and can lead to failures. With tube amps, it really depends on how well designed and robust the amp is including its tubes. For example, I wouldn't have any issues leaving a Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista on 24/7 (not that i'd buy one ;)), but no way a dodgy Ayon amp. Similarly no way a Kondo Ongaku (but for opposite reasons). |
I leave my solid state amps on 24/7 for weeks at a time if not traveling.
Sounds far better and a non-issue for safety. My amps run very cool also.
You actually stress gear more with turn on folks. In fact, my preamp tubes
will last longer without the stress of turn on etc....
Just do what you are comfortable with based on the gear you have. Some
gear is made to stay on and the parts like it a little warm. Ask your builder.
Other amps, like tube amps, never keep on 24/7. |
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This is and has been a contentious topic of discussion for year hear on Audiogon. The issues have been:
1. sound quality of equipment when left on all the time vs turning the equipment on for an hour or so before serious listening.
2. Energy usage and wasting energy.
3. Summer use and the amps (typically) are space heaters (again wasting energy).
For me, I know that anything left on continuously will degrade the life of components. Equipment with standby modes, reduce this dramatically. This allows for devices to have the capacitors charged, but the bias isn't at maximum.
From a safety point of view, equipment left full on (not in standby mode) is not really a good idea ever. Refrigerators, notwithstanding, because you really don't have a choice. But anything else, it not a good idea.
From a sound perspective, on my equipment, could not distinguish any difference in sound from my equipment being left on or turning it on an hour before listening.
For tubed equipment, there is no way on Earth I would leave it on continuously. Most manufacturers tell you the life of the tubes, If you leave it on, well, that life is dramatically reduced. No way to get around that, unless there is a standby mode that has those tubes turned off.
If you have the money to replace tubes often, then that is your choice.
But, I often see opinions here based on Sound quality and safety, and Safety should always come first.
This is the "it can't happen to me" logic. It always happens to someone else, but not me. Until you come home to a burned house, or you listened to some well intentioned but totally ignorant person and eliminated your ground by lifting the ground to eliminate some noise, and then a fault happens and someone is hurt.
Safety first.
I turn my equipment on about an hour before listening. I unplug all my audio equipment when I leave for a few days or more.
enjoy, but be aware, use common sense and be safe. |
+1 Schubert. Kijanski the analogy doesn't hold. If I told you my tap water tasted optimal only after leaving it running for hours, I'd be vilified and probably (and rightly) reported to the city of LA.
Personally, I don't want to waste the tubes in my preamp or power amp but I also don't want to cycle the units on/off more than a couple times a day. My power amp literally takes 30 minutes to stabilize before you can bias it so there's overhead to consider. I also don't trust the thing 100% so safety is a concern.
I'm not taking an absolute moral stance on this but I'm just saying that considering the electrical usage is the responsible thing to do. In Southern California, we are often asked to refrain from non-essential electrical use during peak demand in the summertime. In those instances, using big, power hungry amps just for personal enjoyment would be irresponsible. |
BEl Canto ref1000m Class D amps (very efficient) - yes
TAD Hibachi monoblocks (less efficient) sometimes but not always |
I have 4 2 from each wife-). I have a similar to Kijanki situation with only 20...30w of idle power for preamp/preamp/PC. No biggie to keep it on while home, but would completely unplug from the wall together with power conditioner the whole rig. Sometimes I have to shut down dac/preamp in order to reset and than turn it back on after one minute and it sounds much better. |
No. I kept my Boulder 1060 powered on when I was home on the weekend & found the amp was 95+% warmed up after 2hrs (ie: good enough), otherwise I left the amp on standby. With my current Vitus SIA-025. I find myself in agreeance with Chris Thomas's comments in his Hifi+ review -
"From stand-by, straight into class A I would say that you are looking at a half hour before it really begins to sing and then it just seems to keep getting better. Even after a solid afternoon and evening's listening I would swear that the amplifier was growing more fluid, textural and resolute with better dynamic contrasts, tonal shading and the delicacy of its musical message just seems to become more profound."
To summarize, there are no hard and fast rules. The benefits of keeping a (solid state) amp switched on all or most of the time vary from amp to amp. But rule of thumb, large amps with oversize power supplies and filter banks will generally benefit more from being left on as it takes the psu's longer to warm up and reach optimal thermal conditions. |
Overpopulation is sad and it's likely too late to turn the ruination of the planet around, so I've changed my stand on this issue and say LEAVE IT ALL ON as it no longer matters. Sort of sets you free doesn't it? |
My espresso is about 1500W for 20min (minimum to warmup machine) making 0.5kWh per day (for just one coffee) while my amp and the DAC take together 20W for 24hrs = 0.48kWh. Landscape lighting takes much more, not to mention driving SUV, watching plasma TV or listening to class A amplifier. The most energy wasteful thing you can do is having a child. How many do you really need - one should be enough. :) |
If you are making coffee on an aircraft carrier two hundred gallons at a time could be, my 5 minutes for 2 cups not so much. |
That's true it wastes electricity but so does making coffee, watching TV etc. It is for me a matter of convenience. With high power class A amp it might be a different story. |
"I do not know exactly what electricity costs". I guess that was a understatement. |
On my solid state stuff, I keep the amp AND tuner on and playing 24hrs a day. Sometimes for months. |
My bad - I was looking only at the cost of electricity.
From my electric bill:
375 KWH TOTAL@$0.0661/KWH GENERA 375 kWh X 0.06610 $24.79
but it comes to $49 with delivery charges, fees and taxes.
I made mistake, but it was a small one - 100% :)
Still, even $20 a year I can afford. |
Even if only 1,000 members of this forum leaves their equipment powered on unnescessarily then total 40,000W (1000x40w) of energy will be wasted everyday. Even small individual contribution (however small) makeas a great difference.
Every drop makes a difference! |
Kijanki, are you using solar battery or individual windplant?
My bill is averaging $.11/kwh
Dweller, you may continue to trust your dealer, but the fact is quite different in reality. |
I have an old Sumo Nine, Pure Class A unit, that has never been turned off... except. I took it out of the system for about 4 months while I used Abletec Mono amps (Class D)... My Electric bill went down about $20 a month!... Now they are both in and I'm bi amping. I don't turn them off. Either amp, even though fully burned in takes a lot of hours before it settles in completely. |
"Electricity in my area costs about $0.006 per kWh."
Where do you live?? National average is $0.18/kwh!! Mine is $0.25! |
Without regards to sound quality, safety, tube life, and general wear and tear (none of which I claim to be an authority on), these days you can't ignore the fact that leaving everything on wastes electricity. |
Electricity in my area costs about $0.006 per kWh. For 40W it would be $0.0576 daily = $21 per year. My amplifier (total idle power = 10W) that costs me $5/year doesn't even have power switch. No power switch on my Benchmark DAC1 (also 10W) or Apple express as well. All is plugged into Furman power conditioner, including DVR set to record shows. Unplugging all three individually doesn't appeal to me. Furman has strong non-sacrificial under/overvoltage protection but I still unplug it during thunderstorms. |
A dealer I trust said it takes 24 hours for solid-state to reach its peak (1-2 hours for tubes).
If you listen every day I'd leave it on (not class-A however). If you listen only on weekends, turn it on Friday morning for Sat-Sun (connected to surge control of course). |
I do not know exactly what electricity costs. But if it runs 1.00 a day to have an amp on all the time it adds up to about two hundred and fifty dollars a year you save if you only turn it on 6 hours a day. And that adds up to two thousand dollars in ten years which should be enough to have some caps and a power switch replaced. I think these figures might be quite conservative for an class a, ab, or a tube amp. And you will also be making a better world for the cute mice that live in the fields. Sounds like a win win win proposition. |
I'll share Schubert's POV.
It's only 15...20 for solid state to reach operating parameters and half-way down for tubes. Becides, if area is prone to surges, you're saving your equipment when not home. |
I turn everything off when I am not there.
Used to be a volunteer fireman, you see how easy a house can burn. |
If it's designed that way it's ok. The manual for my Portal Panache says it uses about the power of a 40 watt bulb, so ecologically your decision. sonically it sounds better and maybe even lasts longer according to many... |
