Canceled Denali order.
Gonna go Equitech.
Compelling argument for balanced power:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/equitech/1.html
Gonna go Equitech.
Compelling argument for balanced power:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/equitech/1.html
Do I need a power conditioner?
I’m in the process of dropping a dedicated 20 amp circuit or 2 into the music room.
So if I have a dedicated circuit for the amp, and a dedicated circuit for everything else,
is a conditioner useful?
I have several fairly decent systems going that I tweek and retweek.
Just got around to upgrading cables. Avoided conditioners because, in general, they dampen the presentation.
Was using a PS Audio PPP for low power components. But fell for the Shunyata spiel.
Plugged in a Hydra 4 with a Python Helix and was very happy with how it cleaned up the Zu Druids.
Seems high sensitivity speakers maybe reveal the grunge also.
Moved it to my system with the Martin Logans and the presentation seemed a bit lean and just a bit lifeless, using just copperhead cable to Hydra. (using all Pangea to get from the Hydra to other components.)
Then I put a Black Mamba from Classe amp straight to the wall and Wow! Single most significant tweek ever for me.
So I’m thinking, maybe I don’t need the Denali I ordered if I just use a couple dedicated circuits and some Shunyata power cords everywhere.
Opinions?
Thanks. :)
So if I have a dedicated circuit for the amp, and a dedicated circuit for everything else,
is a conditioner useful?
I have several fairly decent systems going that I tweek and retweek.
Just got around to upgrading cables. Avoided conditioners because, in general, they dampen the presentation.
Was using a PS Audio PPP for low power components. But fell for the Shunyata spiel.
Plugged in a Hydra 4 with a Python Helix and was very happy with how it cleaned up the Zu Druids.
Seems high sensitivity speakers maybe reveal the grunge also.
Moved it to my system with the Martin Logans and the presentation seemed a bit lean and just a bit lifeless, using just copperhead cable to Hydra. (using all Pangea to get from the Hydra to other components.)
Then I put a Black Mamba from Classe amp straight to the wall and Wow! Single most significant tweek ever for me.
So I’m thinking, maybe I don’t need the Denali I ordered if I just use a couple dedicated circuits and some Shunyata power cords everywhere.
Opinions?
Thanks. :)
100 responses Add your response
Once, early on I had a rig set up for getting high quality CDR's from LP's. I had no power filters of any kind. When playing back the CDR, there was noise in the sound field of the CDR. I could almost hear a faint radio station. I had a "noise sniffer" and it confirmed a very noisy AC line. I bought a Monster Power conditioner. I put it in the chain and did the dub again. On playback, the noise was gone. Another scenario; I had an Adcom power amp (GF5800, I think). Everytime I powered it up in the winter, the tiny amount of static that I discharged on my audio rack, would cause my Adcoms' overload light to come on. It would go back out BUT I didn't want this happening. I bought a PS Audio power filter. After putting it in the chain, the issue with the Adcom was gone! The results don't always have to have a very audible benefit to justify having one. Cheers. Joe |
I got the Equitech 2RQ. Apparently it is a little hard to find a unit in stock anywhere, but I managed this one. I believe I was told usually takes 4-6 weeks to get one. They have multiple models. I am led to believe the 1.5 R "Son of Q" and the 2RQ are the most requested, and most likely to be in stock somewhere. |
Again Audiogon forum comes through. Previously I had asked about turntables and ended up with GEM PolyTable, Hana cartridge and Sutherland phono stage. Products I had never heard of but which are clearly better than what I had originally planned on getting. Likewise, I had never heard of balanced power or Equitech. Hopefully I am equally pleased with the outcome this time. Thanks to everyone for all the advice. |
a conditioner MIGHT be useful if you have a lot of noise on the line - less likely with a dedicated line but still possible noise can be injected from your own equipment, from bad grounding (unlikely if an electrician puts in a new line), and/or from other things in between you and the sub-station, esp. things between you and the last transformer (blame your neighbors) I would never waste money on a power conditioner unless I had measured noise levels on the line first noise will have worse effects if your components are poorly designed I would not worry about line noise too much until I had addressed all the major problems with SQ in the system - e.g if you have built your own listening room and spent $20k or more on the system |
Hi Leotis, You made a very wise decision in choosing a balanced AC power transformer/conditioner. Balanced power is a different approach and is an excellent choice for audio components. I’ve used one in my system for 8 years and consider it a necessity as it will remain a life long fixture in my system. I have found no negatives or compromises with it, all positive attributes across the board. I believe that you’ll be very pleased with your unit. Charles |
Dealer where I got the 2RQ is
also a
Shunyata dealer. He has Equitech unit in his home system. Hope that means something. Equitech technology sounds good on paper. Shunyata is a little opaque about their technology. I have the 1st gen Shunyata going (Hydra 2 and 4.) Mid range sounded a little bleached out till I added their Black Mamba PC from the amp to wall. Every new generation of Shunyata "sounds way better" than previous generation. I've heard the Denali and it sounded freakin fine! Taking a bit of a flyer on theEquitech. We'll see when it arrives in a couple weeks. |
I believe that leotis made a good decision due to the attributes provided by a high quality balanced AC power isolation transformer. My confidence is based on the technology and good implementation of balanced power supplying audio components. The Shunyata may also be a fine product but it does not offer the merits of balanced AC. Charles |
Thanks for the responses. Awaiting your impressions of the 2RQ. I am using a Shunyata Hydra Talos (6 outlet) conditioner in my system connected to the wall with an Alpha HC 20amp cable. I very much wanted the Denali, but gotta feed the family while struggling to find audio nirvana. :-) If your dealer carries Shunyata, maybe they will let you borrow a demo Denali unit for a home evaluation. My dealer allows this, but they don't have any Denali's in-house. Jason |
I've heard Denali at the local dealer. Sounded wonderful. But it was part of a $200K+ system. So how much to attribute to the Denali? I am getting the Equitech from an out of state dealer to avoid massive sales tax. The more I read about the history of balanced power the more convinced I am. Appears Martin Glasband revolutionized the recording industry with it's introduction. I am led to believe that virtually all high end audio and video production uses balanced power technology. Availability for home use is a relatively recent development. Thanks again to Audiogon forum for introducing me to a better idea that I knew nothing about. Wish I had resorted to Audiogon for advice before I had dumped large $$$ on so much gear that didn't stand the test of time in my system. |
Leotis, It's all a continuing learning experience. I had no awareness of balanced AC power until I came across a review/article about 7 years ago. The case presented was logical and compelling and I decided to try it in my home system. It is one of the best audio decisions I've made. Improved sound quality across the board and no negatives that I could detect. I have the BPT 3.5 Signature plus. It will never be removed from my system. Charles |
Interesting brewhaha. Has since been resolved in favor of balanced power use for audio systems I believe. Including modification of the NEC. I do wonder if ungrounded components present a problem. I have a Pioneer Elite 79-DVi SACD player that doesn’t have a ground plug. Uses neutral for the ground. Made my Headtrip amp buzz like a mutha. As long as neutral is not grounded to the chassis shouldn’t be a problem I don’t think. UL approval requires neutral to be isolated from the chassis. I think if there were a widespread problem, it would be well known by now. Maybe someone who knows more than I do could chime in. |
I'm not about to say I know more than you but wanted to add the comment that if you read the stereophile forum comments posted by randy-11 you will notice that the poster raging against balanced power is saying that it is against NEC to have a balanced "circuit" which I'm sure is true. A balanced power "conditioner" (device) is different than a home "circuit". I use a BPT 2.5 Signature and the instructions say to use it with three pronged plugs. It is certainly not intended to be used on a lamp or other two pronged device. Does anyone really believe there would be so many balanced power devices available on the market if they weren't UL approved? I get a kick out of electricians and their absolute disdain for audio enthusiasts (I'll avoid that term that carries so much baggage). |
Re concerns about installing balanced circuits. It can be done within code but the outlets must be clearly labeled as non standard outlets. I had an Equitech wall mounted balanced transformer in my previous installation and while I thought it worked well the complexity of the system and problems in selling the house (I needed to rip it all out on selling as the buyer wouldn't touch something this outre) mean I'll never go that far again. My current solution is based on a Torus wall mount that has balanced input but standard outputs which I think gives you the best of both worlds |
Lots of good advice. I am also a fan of balanced power. Like others I have tried various conditioners over the years, same conclusion as others to many trade offs. Last year I saw all the buzz with HFC's MC-05 plug in conditioner, tried one, wound up buying 4 more, absolutely no trade offs crazy part is they are not even directly in the power chain, huge bang for the buck. |
So the Equitech 2RQ arrived yesterday. The more I read about it, the more I am convinced that balanced power is the better solution for eliminating noise in theory. In practice however, no way to know till you actually hear the results. Of course you can look at the list of heavy hitters that use Equitech. Never the less, I was apprehensive till I got the unit plugged in. Started out with my Oppo 95 to PrimaLuna Dialogue HP Integrated to Zu Druid. (high sensitivity speakers more revealing, including noise, I think.) Put it there cause the thing is freakin heavy, and I didn’t have any help to lift it into the rack on my real system. Long story short, I already ordered another Equitech (Son of Q jr this time) because I can’t imagine listening to that system again without the Equitech. I feel kind of silly trying to give a subjective impression. All the audiophile terminology sounds pompous and pretentious coming from me cause I’m kind of a newb. But it was apparent right away that this thing is a game changer. Made orders of magnitude bigger difference that all the previous tweeks I’ve laid on that system, and there have been plenty. So yeah, drop the noise floor like that and you are gonna liberate the actual music that has been hidden behind the layers of smear you have been previously hearing. Pretty damn happy about that. Seems to me that all the filtering that other conditioners use remove some of the music along with the noise. The better ones just have a better noise to music removal ratio. Pretty sure the Equitech just removes just the noise while leaving the music intact. Glad I came to Audiogon forum again. You guys turned me on to a product I knew nothing about, that seems to be a much better solution than what I previously had in mind. |
I was pretty confident Leotis that the innate qualities of balanced AC power would be apparent once you actually did some listening. . As you note, decreased noise and absolutely no loss of the music (in fact there’s more musical nuance and information).Balanced AC power is a permanent fixture in my system. Charles |
I use a ps audio p5! My main amp I plug into wall with a Wireworld platinum power cord! Use Wireworld silver coating cables for rest! There's a difference between conditioner and power regenerator! P5 is a regenerator! My opinion on cables and conditioners or regenerator! The money u spend for this is not reflected enough for the cash outlay! When u invest over six figures in a system like I have , feel free to call me ignorant! |
I had a PS Audio PPP. It helped, but the improvement was relatively subtle, especially compared to the Equitech. The Equitech is orders of magnitude more effective IMO. Most of the noise in your AC power is not coming from your wall circuit. It is reactive current emanating from the power supplies of all the gear you have connected. The regenerators do nothing about this source of noise. With balanced power that noise cancels itself out; a really elegant solution. And the SQ difference is not subtle at all, more like freaking amazing. Proper respect to Martin Glasband for figuring it out! Now virtually all the important audio video production companies use his technology. Which may be why it is hard to get one of his consumer units, they are so busy producing their larger installations. |
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Do I need a power conditioner?From my experience, Yes. The problem with noise is one doesn't know it exists until removed. As with all components, power conditioners and distributors have their distinctive sonic signature so no one size fits all. I've had many many active power conditioners, Shunyata, PS Audio PPP, EquiTech 2Q ... they all remove noise, darker background but found the sound processed and artificial so been using 2 passive Weizhi PRS-6s. One for amps and other sources. I've always had high current/power amps and found they benefit with power distributors. All active conditioners I tried seems to limit current and dynamics where 2Q was by far the best. I don't experience any limiting with the Weizhi on 300 wpc mono amps. I have 2 friends very satisfied using HB Cable Marble with their system/amps. Also heard Soulution amps owners positive results with Ansuz Mainz8 power distributor and Shunyata Denali. My 0.2! |
I like your description of the remarkable results of using the Equitech 2Q balanced power unit in your system. I think having a 2nd unit, to experiment with, will give interesting benefits and insight as to just how negatively digital units affect the overall sound. . A 2nd isolation unit gave me great benefit and I wouldn't remove it either. My enjoyment of FM is significantly enhanced and greatly appreciated as listening to a CBC FM classical station 105.7 is now a vastly more satisfying source. Happy listening. |
I used to take solace in the opinions that cables make no difference, because it saved me money. Then I listened to a demo at CanJam where Dana Cables had some Grado headphones plugged into a Headtrip amp that had 2 outlets. Side by side identical headphones, identical source. Stock cables on one headphone, Dana cables on the other.You could have one set of cans in one hand and one set in the other, easily swaping A/B . The difference was dramatic. Debate over as far as I’m concerned. The fellow next to me listened and thought they must have been pulling some kind of trick! Haha. I have swapped a variety of speaker, power and IC cables through my various setups. Don’t feel the need to apologize for saying that generally the differences are somewhere between detectable and dramatic. I have a friend who "can’t hear differences" but he heard the difference with the Dana demo. Most of the reason he can’t hear differences is that he has set up his systems so poorly that, to my ears it sounds pretty bad either way. He is too lazy to read his manuals and figure out how to get things sounding good. As long as sound comes out he thinks his job is done. When people say it is just confirmation bias based on you just wasted a pile of $$$ so you have to believe it was worth it, I just shake my head. That being said, I aim for the sweet spot in the price/ performance curve. Which for me is just a step or two above entry level for the most part. As far as power conditioners, I was leery because "they kill dynamics" etc. "They give and they also take away." I think that was true with the PS Audio PPP and the Shunyata Hydras I tried. In general they gave more than they took and the systems sounded better with than without (just using on sources, not amps) Yet the differences were not dramatic. The Equitech is a different story. The difference is dramatic and I believe it gives plenty and takes away virtually nothing but grunge.There are other conditioners that I am willing to believe make a huge difference including Shunyata Denali and Audioquest Niagara. Pretty sure that almost anyone who actually tried them would easily hear the difference. |
I know romazicon has done direct comparisons with the 2RQ and HFC Hemisphere MC-6: http://www.head-fi.org/t/766517/chord-electronics-dave/2745 Has anyone else A/B’ed the Equi=tech stuff to the High Fidelity Cables MC-6, Weizhi, or HB Cable Design conditioners? |
@bacon333, I own the Equi=Tech Q2 and the HFC MC-6 (among others). In my main system, I prefer the sound of my front end (Allnic L-3000, Yamamoto Dac, Sonic Frontiers STF-1 Transport, Allnic H-1201 Phono Preamp) while using the MC-6. I'm guessing that I'm lucky because I find the power on my dedicated lines to be fairly clean, in my opinion. |
bacon333. I had an Equi=Tech 2Q and was replaced with Weizhi. I also have a HFC MC-6. Stock I prefer MC-6 to Weizhi. But after replacing the IEC and outlets on both Weizhi with NCF, I prefer the Weizhi. I have 2 20 amp dedicated lines ... also had a ground post added to the Weizhis so I can tie grounds together and the improvement is staggering. I never realized noise existed until it was gone. I'm going to replace iec and outlets on the MC-6 with NCF and add a grounding post. Should be an interesting comparison to the Weizhi. I have a friend with 2 HB Cable Marbles in all Epsilon and VTL Siegfied MKII system and sounds amazing. I don't hear any current or dynamic restrictions with Siegfried plugged in the HB Cable. Also have a dealer settled on HB Cable Marble and his home system is very very good. Eventually I'll get a HB Cable Marble but no immediate plans. |
Thanks @lak @knghifi for your responses. Are you guys referring to the MC-6 or the MC-6 Hemisphere? The hemisphere has Furutech GTX-D (R) receptacles but unsure about the IEC. Not sure how much better the NCFs would be. That would indeed be an interesting experiment. Excuse my ignorance but how would you go about adding a grounding post on the MC-6? That HB Cable Marble looks like a beast. Might be able to audition a Powerstar Horizon and do a direct comparison to the MC-6 Hem. Looks like the primary difference is the # of outlets? 9lbs vs 40 lbs whew. |
I want to correct the above statement I made about how the MC-6 Hemisphere works. The MC-6 Hemisphere does work on the same principal as the MC-6 however, the parts are upgraded and there is an advanced waveguide system along with a ceramic-tempered, hard, anodized aluminum receptacle mounting and bottom plates for vibration-resistant mounting systems on the internal waveguides and receptacles. |
Hullo: Thanks for any help. Perhaps I should contact Synergistic? |
