I am pretty close to deciding on the M30.1 now after some experiments today. I'm currently listening to my P3ESR and they sound great, so I'm looking forward to going back to a mid sized Harbeth. I've got some old HL5 upstairs in a larger room so it will be a nice little family if I have the M30.1 too.
I finally decided against the Devore Super 8, since although I do love Devores I realise I would have to retune my system quite seriously, and anyway I find the mid bass too lean.
A friend brought around a VTL IT85 today - a cute little integrated with good tonal qualities. I switched from my Unico Pre/DM to the VTL with the Devores and it was immediately clear that the Devores like a pure valve amp. They were ok with the Unicos, but I have a feeling they don't have the greatest synergy with mosfets, for some reason.
However even with the IT85 I was not getting anything like the clarity and scale my friend has with his Nines and VTL 2.5/150. And I was not getting anything like the bass of the Nines. So I realised that there was no point trying to go half way towards my friend's excellent system. That is an organic whole that he has worked towards for years. Every part is essential. The Super 8s are not the Nines - those side firing bas drivers really do bring another dimension.
My system is tuned towards Harbeths, and I know my amps have a great synergy with them. I've tried a lot, and Crofts are another favouritet; Harbeths love mosfet/valve hybrids). I put the VTL integrated on the P3ESR this afternoon and it was fine, but I was missing something - both presence and scale. With the Unico amps back it was all there. So the Devores got greater warmth and presence from the VTL and the Harbeths got greater warmth and presence from the Unison Research.
As always, synergy is the law.
I feel like I've come to the end of a long and very complicated but circular journey, with a hell of a lot of time wasted. But that's ok, it will be good to get back home. |
Fjn04-
Right now my system looks like this:
Mac Mini-Luxman DA-06-Shindo Masetto-Shindo Montrachet- O/96's |
Having heard all three of your finalists, I would definitely go with the Harbeth 30.1's. They sound terrific with either tubes or solid state. They are extremely musical with an overall wonderful warm tone. And, I find that whenever I'm listening to the Harbeth's, the time just passes. You will spend hours of fatigue free listening. |
"I was between Devore O'96's and the Harbeth 30.1. As I run an all Shindo front end I went with the O/96's as they are more efficient and John Devore uses Shindo (and others) to voice his speakers. It's an amazing combo for me. If i had a solid state rig I'd probably lean towards the Harbeths."
+1- Both nice speakers, but should be thought out as a system.
Mcslipp- off subject, but which Shindo are ya running there? |
I have heard the Devore Super 8s sound lovely with warm sounding Leben electronics, but the 88 is also a little lean IMHO. Dynaudio Focus 260 by comparison had a more even tonal balance but lacked the quickness of the Devores. Harbeths with the Leben had a lush, romantic presentation when auditioned at a local retailer a
few years ago. |
I was between Devore O'96's and the Harbeth 30.1. As I run an all Shindo front end I went with the O/96's as they are more efficient and John Devore uses Shindo (and others) to voice his speakers. It's an amazing combo for me. If i had a solid state rig I'd probably lean towards the Harbeths. |
Von Schweikert Unifield 2 monitors. Just throwing these out there as another possibility to audition. Not sure if they are available in the UK. |
As both a long term owner and admirer of both Harbeth M30 and M40.1s (owned for over 10 years combined) with a room a little larger than yours ( 16' x 14'. I'd recommend you try to listen to Gradient Revolutions . I've owned a pair of the active version for the last year or so and they perform wonderfully especially in the bass. ( my musical tastes are all genres and periods of classical music )
Its a toss up which I prefer the M40.1s or the Gradients but in my room I'd give the nod slightly to the Gradients.
A second hand pair may not be much more than the M30.1s. ( my favorite mid sized monitor.) |
This is not from your preferences but being in the U.K., have you tried to listen to the Boenicke 5se? I haven't, but am planning on moving to a monitor speaker that doesn't need a sub and from what I've read, these Boenickes are floating a lot of folks boats.
All the best,
Nonoise |
That's really too bad they don't distribute there. They were the only speakers in the under 10k range that I found to be coherent, detailed, neutral (piano sounds like it should), non fatiguing and dynamic. You need all the proper equipment around it, but that goes for any good speaker or it should. I have liked the Harbeth, but I just miss the deep bass on that type of speaker. They do a great job for what they are designed to do. The Devore I heard with the 30W tube integrated was the Orangutang 96. I just didn't like it and neither did the guy who brought it into the store to listen to it vs the speaker the store was selling. Both to me were just hot and thin in the mid bass. They were hollow...When he told me how much they cost, I was in shock. I know many of you guys loves these speakers, but I don't understand as there are so many great speakers in that range. I get different ears and all, but when I bet if most folks heard them against other options that were really good, you'd hear the difference. Again, JMHO. I wish you luck in your search. Sounds like there may be some other options that are bought up as we all talk about what WE own or want to own, lol. |
Check out the JanZen stand mounted electrostatics.
http://www.janszenloudspeaker.com/ |
Thanks for the ideas everyone. Dodgealum, your experience is fascinating, since you've come from the same original point as I have. The Daedelus speakers looks really interesting; 3 way, superbly constructed cabinets, efficient, natural driver materials - plenty of plus points already. However I fear that even the smallest designs would overload my room. The Pan is larger than an LS3/6 cabinet, and larger than the Harbeth SHL5. It's not a lossy box design like the BBC monitors, so I suppose that would help, but I'm still cautious about that size of cabinet in my room. (Mind you, I've had Klipsch La Scalas in the room, but that was a month of madness!). Still, you've peaked my interest and I'll try contacting the UK Deadelus guy.
Ctsooner, Vandersteens look interesting to me, but I don't think they've got a distributor over hear at present. I know one or two people on the UK forums have used them but they are very rare here, which is a shame.
So many designs from the US don't seem to make it over here. I think distributors are very conservative about what they think people want for UK living rooms. And British speaker design has been dominated by polite, skinny floor standers. We have small living rooms, and there seems to be a 'better heard not seen' design philosophy.
I've never been too keen on floor standing designs, but the Devore Gibbons have been one exception to that. What Fjn04 says about the Orangutans does also apply to the Gibbons to some extent too, I think. Devore are just very picky about amps in general. They can sound mediocre with the wrong amps, but thrive with high quality valve designs. A couple of us took some amps over to try on our friend's Nines and it was bemusing. Some amps that sounded great with Harbeths or Proacs didn't sound good at all with the Devores. But with our friends VTL amps, the Nines are wonderful - a beautiful tonal richness, a huge sense of space, great dynamics, and all of these qualities are well balanced.
The big selling point about Harbeths is that they can sound very good with quite modest amps. I went to a session Alan Shaw hosted when he launched the SHL5+ recently and they were using a Quad cd player and QSP power amp. The whole system would be little more than £6k here, but like my friends Devore/VTL system, it was just wonderfully balanced - superb, especially with orchestral and choral music.
So it's easier to get the best out of Harbeths, but I think the Devores can deliver more when you give them the amps they want. They are just rather demanding.
I think I could live happily with the Monitor 30.1 in my small room, but if only they had that extra half octave. So then there is the question of subs, and the endless frustration of trying to integrate.... |
Go with the 30.1's
a no brainer. |
Different people have different tastes in speakers, no question about that. I have to take exception to Dodgealum's comment about the Harbeth 30.1 and the Daedalus heard at last year's Capital Audio Fest. I was at the CAF as well for both Fri and Sat and heard the same rooms Dodgealum visited. For what it's worth, in my opinion, the Harbeth 30.1 is a superb speaker and is indeed a worthy option for someone coming from Quads. Neither the Daedalus nor the DeVore speakers have ever sounded as musical, as real, as the 30.1 in the half a dozen times I have heard each one. So clearly we all have different tastes. |
I too had a pair of DeVore speakers, in my case the Gibbon 8. I too found the midbass to be quite lean. If I were spending the money, I would get the Harbeths. I think they are a better overall speaker. DeVore speakers are not that great on rock which is the reason I sold them, and they never put out a big sound. I believe they are more suited to small Jazz Combos. When I retire in another year or two, I plan on Auditioning the Harbeth 40.1, as that is what I have my sights on for my last set of speakers. |
It's certainly personal preference, but just one point on the DeVores. It seems to me the gibbon/Silverback are often bunched in the same conversation as Orangutan's. IMHO, you have to approach the two series as a different thing.
I have heard the Harbeths on a few occasions, and I liked them very much.
In comparison to the Orangutan's, they may be more forgiving of upstream components. The O's however, will allow you to delve in to low power tube amps, including SET. |
The bloke I mentioned goes by "David12". |
You have obviously thought this through carefully and have narrowed the field to two VERY good speakers that nearly hit the mark in every area important to you. I owned the Compact 7's for many years and enjoyed them greatly. I've heard just about every other Harbeth as well and they are all fantastic speakers, particularly through the midrange which is where the Quads shine and probably why you dig them so much. I've heard several of the Devore speakers as well--I wouldn't rate them as high as the Harbeth's but they are also a very solid, balanced design. Not to try to send you off the rails but I would suggest you consider Daedalus. I spent two years listening to a wide range of floorstanding speakers to replace my C7's, which were too small for the room when we moved to a bigger house. The Daedalus were the only speakers that were as convincing through the midrange as the Harbeth's AND could rock the house like no Harbeth could ever imagine. Lou has a number of smaller models (Athena, Pan and Muse) which might work well in your room. I heard the Muse recently at the Capital Audiofest and they are OUTSTANDING--certainly better than my experience with any DeVore's and way better than the Monitor 30.1's which were also at the show that day. If you like the Harbeth's you will LOVE Lou's designs. There is a guy in the UK who has a pair of Darma's (older standmount) who may be willing to do a demo for you--he posts here from time to time. If you do a search you can find him I'm sure. Best of luck with your search! |
I heard a few pair of the Devore speakers this weekend and thought I would like them, but I just didn't. I heard them against some much better sounding speakers at half the cost (they were the big wide box ones with a tweeter and woofer). Honestly, they sounded boxy, hallow and slow as heck. No detail at all. I have Vandersteen Treo's with Ayre and AQ cables. I also use a nice Basis TT. I personally fell in love with the VAndersteens as they do it all. I have used Proac Towers and monitors over the last 25 years, but they too were a bit lean. I have noticed that most folks feel a speaker is lean, when it's often the amp being a bit underpowered or just not the right amp/pre. With the rest of your system, I don't think you'd have a problem driving the Harbeths...I have heard a few of their upper line speakers recently and they were nice. If you are down to just those two, I'd personally go Harbeth, but that's MY ear and in the rooms I heard them in and with the front ends...you get it. You really need to get them both into your room and chose what you want and take the other ones back. JMHO |
How small of a room? Chances are you won't get the big sound you're looking for with any speaker. Try a really good pair of earphones and dedicated amp |
