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Devore or Harbeths to replace my ESL63s?

I'm on the last stages of a speaker quest that has been quite difficult. For the last year I've had ESL 63s in a smallish room (14'8 x 11'10). I've got them to work extremely well for small scale ensembles, particularly jazz, and they also sound great with electronic music. But I can't give them enough space to image an orchestra, and they don't really rock (at least without Gradient sub-woofers, but that's another story...)

So after a long search, it's come down to either Harbeth or Devore for replacements. These have been my favourite contemporary speakers for years, so basically I've just spent a long time finding out what I already knew.

I previously owned Compact 7ES3 and enjoyed them, but found them unrefined in the soprano regio, and slightly muddy around the port output. The Monitor 30.1 is considerably smoother in the high frequencies and I find it a beautifully balanced speaker. It is the perfect size for my room, with one failing. It lacks the half octave of bass needed to give kick drums any force. I tried the new SHL5+ in my room but they are just too big for my room, sadly.

A friend of mine owns some Devore Nines. Very few people have Devores in the UK, but he has a fantastic system with VTL 2.5/150. It used to be that when I heard his system I would find the Compact 7s unlistenable for a couple of days. That changed with the ESL63s, but the Quads have an uneven combination of great strengths and severe limits in a small room.

So it's come down to either Harbeth M30.1, Devore Super 8, or Devore 88.

I have a second hand pair of the Super 8s at home at the moment. They are beautifully organic and draw you in to their world gradually. Other speakers I have at home have more immediate and crisp micro-detail (Harbeth P3ESR for example), but the Super 8s seem to put a root into the ground and claim the room as the proper place for their music making. Relax, they say, don't worry about the details, we will sort out your musical life.

I have only two reservations; first, they are quite lean in the mid-bass, especially in comparison to my friend's Nines, and this presents some limits with rock and electronic. Second, my system is optimised for Harbeths (and then for ESLs), and Devores would probably work better with lower powered, very refined valve amps. I don't get the same clarity that I get with Harbeths in my system.

I also have an option on some second hand 88s, but I have never heard them and I would have to buy blind. That is generally against my religion.

I guess the key question is; do I go with what I know (Monitor 30.1) or look to optimise my system gradually for the newcomers (Devore Super 8 or 88).

I'd be grateful for any thoughts from anyone who has compared the M30.1 with Devores in the same room, since that is what I can't do at the moment.

(My system details: the amps are Unison Research Unico Pre/DM. The sources are a Fletcher Omega Point 5/Audio Note Arm/Nagaoka MP500, Trichord Diablo/NCPSU). Audio Synthesis DAX Discrete with AS modded CD Transport.)
andreweast

Showing 13 responses by ctsooner

ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
I heard a few pair of the Devore speakers this weekend and thought I would like them, but I just didn't. I heard them against some much better sounding speakers at half the cost (they were the big wide box ones with a tweeter and woofer). Honestly, they sounded boxy, hallow and slow as heck. No detail at all. I have Vandersteen Treo's with Ayre and AQ cables. I also use a nice Basis TT. I personally fell in love with the VAndersteens as they do it all. I have used Proac Towers and monitors over the last 25 years, but they too were a bit lean. I have noticed that most folks feel a speaker is lean, when it's often the amp being a bit underpowered or just not the right amp/pre. With the rest of your system, I don't think you'd have a problem driving the Harbeths...I have heard a few of their upper line speakers recently and they were nice. If you are down to just those two, I'd personally go Harbeth, but that's MY ear and in the rooms I heard them in and with the front ends...you get it. You really need to get them both into your room and chose what you want and take the other ones back. JMHO
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
That's really too bad they don't distribute there. They were the only speakers in the under 10k range that I found to be coherent, detailed, neutral (piano sounds like it should), non fatiguing and dynamic. You need all the proper equipment around it, but that goes for any good speaker or it should. I have liked the Harbeth, but I just miss the deep bass on that type of speaker. They do a great job for what they are designed to do. The Devore I heard with the 30W tube integrated was the Orangutang 96. I just didn't like it and neither did the guy who brought it into the store to listen to it vs the speaker the store was selling. Both to me were just hot and thin in the mid bass. They were hollow...When he told me how much they cost, I was in shock. I know many of you guys loves these speakers, but I don't understand as there are so many great speakers in that range. I get different ears and all, but when I bet if most folks heard them against other options that were really good, you'd hear the difference. Again, JMHO. I wish you luck in your search. Sounds like there may be some other options that are bought up as we all talk about what WE own or want to own, lol.
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
I personally don't like the AN speakers either. Just not for me for the same reasons you guys are bringing up. I was discussing this with an owner of the J's I think it was and I heard it on their top of the line electronics and they turntable with three separate motors etc. I let him listen to my Vandy Treo's with entry Ayre integrated and Basis with Benz cart/Heed phono. He was shocked with what he hear. Said it gave him a real stage, imaging and musicality he loves, but it sounds like a single speaker and is so subtly detailed compared to his. I've had my Ayre on AN'e' with silver wiring etc... It sounded better than the AN amps, but still had suck out and lacked continuity. The mids can be magic and the dynamics are great cause they are so efficient, however it's not a whole speaker in my mind. I can sit and listen to them all day long as long as I'm not being critical...
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Jet, as I said, I can listen to them all day long (the Harbeths). I decided to go for the Vandy's as they do everything well. I have listened to the 7's with Richards own amps recently with a lot of guys at Audio connection. I loved the sound, however some of the guys kept going in the other room as the 5's were just blazing hot. Best I've heard them sound....The 7's were simply like live music. You really had to listen hard to 'get it'....It was just so easy to sit for hours and listen to album after album. Simply the best sound I've ever heard. The leading attack and trailing edge...the midrange bloom, the kick in your gut bass when it was there. It was the most neutral fastest system i've ever heard. I only share that because that's what I listen for. Sometimes I may make a post and it doesn't come off the way I meant it. Nothing I have posted is to cut the Harbeth. Again, enjoyable, but for ME, I felt for the cost of the 40's, the Vandy's did more. It's audio and all about taste...that's why asking what someone else likes is just that...their tastes. I feel badly for folks who buy what others like and not what they have heard.
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
If he's into the Harbeth sound I'd really doubt he'd be into a stat. I personally have yet to hear a stat that I could live with. Most ribbons drive me nuts too for many reasons. I'm only heard a handful that I like and they have been very expensive to do it right. I have a ton of friends who love the panels type speakers, but have no use for the Harbeth's or any box speaker. Different tastes.
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Andrew, at least you are listening to find what you like. I hate hearing folks just buying and selling... It keeps the site going, but it's not what high end audio should become IMHO...at least I hope it's not like that. I do wish you could have had a chance to listen to the Vandersteens as well as a few others as there are just a ton of great choices at this price range.
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Andrew I was up at Bob's a few weeks ago listening to those as well as some from Germany. They are nice, but for the cost, there are more that I like better. Bob's a great guy and he has a nice set up for his gear. It does sound good.

I"m a Proac guy and was going to upgrade my Proacs when I went on my quest last year. I ended with the Vandy's, but the Proac 30R and 40R were the only ribbons I hear in the last year that sounded good. I personally am not a KEF guy either, but again that's me. Go listen to the Proacs as the ribbon is just a different turn for them. I heard them on GREAT tubes and top of the line analog.
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Andrew, I was talking about Bob at Amherst Audio.

I have heard the Proac 30 and 40R's and they are the best Proac's I've ever heard. I still went with the Vandy Treo's as they do everything a bit better. Even the bass on the Vandy's when driven properly is astounding. It's the carbon fiber midrange that he makes that makes them so coherent and fast. They catch every little detail. From the list you are showing I personally like the 30 or 40R best. You have two totally different sounds in Proac vs Harbeth. Most Proac dealers in the states that I've been to have both lines so I've heard them side by side many times. I agree with Erik 100%...
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Not surprised in the least with the Harbeths over the PSB's...
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Keep in mind that over the long haul, the Proacs may not be as lean as you think. They maybe more accurate and realistic. We love the plummy in the mid bass. The situation you are running into is what we all do....The perfect speaker isn't out there and you are hearing compromises. What can you live with in your home and what can't you???
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Enjoyed what you are posting Andre. No edit needed. Thanks for sharing. Are the Proac's fully burned in? I heard a pair of D40R's months ago as a store that also had AN/UK gear. We listened to all high end tube gear. I was floored at how good the Proac's sounded. They really did a great job with that ribbon. The bass wasn't up to par, but I think it was the amp as none of the speakers we heard that day had decent bass, so I don't think it was the Proac's.
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Glad you are happy.  If you have a chance, check out the Vandersteen Treo or Quatro's.  I have the Treo's now and am selling them to get the Quatro's as I want that powered, room tunable bass, but the Treo's do have a ton of bass for a large room as long as you use the correct amp (folks really need to make sure their components all work well together to get the most out of their systems.  All too often you see mismatches and won't want to say anything as it may hurt someone's feelings).  Thanks for the update.
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
For what you say you like I'm think you need to put the Vandersteen and Proacs into play.  Vandersteen is one of the few dynamic driver speakers that sound like a single driver speaker and have a similar sound to panels without the panels first reflection distortion in the time alignment. Many don't mind this, some do.  I love the panels mids, but for me the highs on most of them aren't what I personally like.  Again, it's all about your tastes.
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