Dedicated Vinyl system next upgrade?

Your system seems top notch. Top end brightness can be somewhat resolved with speaker placement and room treatments in my opinion. It’s the “ghost” in my system as well. I’m in a similar place with my system. Totally satisfied 90% of the time. The only upgrade I have done recently was to send some of my reference Lps out for a proper cleaning. I used www.thevinylarchivist.com as he is local to me. I can’t tell you what an improvement a proper ultrasonic cleaning has done for the LP’s I had done. It’s insane what a difference it has made. Even on seemingly “perfect” pressings I own. Good luck on your journey!

My pressing of that is the reissue Winchester in NM-, I will give that a spin. Thanks for the super detailed reply.
jim

@tomic601 reference disk Neil Young - After The Gold Rush. I have a few pressings. They all sound great and I don’t know if there’s one singular thing that I doubt. If I had to choose I’d say that I sometimes question the top end. I sometimes feel/hear a brightness that can be off putting or a bit harsh. I’m not sure if this is speaker thing, or a matter of recording or something else? I do know my speakers have a reputation of being of sounding bright. I dunno. Again, there are times when I’m listening and I can’t imagine a better sounding stereo. Then there are other times when I’m slightly annoyed with the top end. The nature of the beast I guess. 

Also what’s a reference disc that brings you great joy but also let’s sonic doubt creep in ? And how loud do you listen to that ? Trying to help by listening 

@mulveling is a connoisseur of high end cartridges. I suggest that you consider his opinions carefully.

I agree with others about the tonearm, and suggest another possibility, the Trans-Fi Terminator air bearing tonearm. IMO it's better than anything that costs less than the price of a car, and costs under $1500 direct from the manufacturer. I have two of them, one on a $10K conventional turntable, and another on a DIY air bearing special.

The only real function of a tonearm is to hold the cartridge in precise relation to the record. It follows that the tonearm must be highly adjustable and hold its settings. The Trans-Fi does that better than most. And of course, it's an air bearing (actually, air bearing horizontal and knife-edge vertical).

Good luck!

I can relate to your predicament. But I think @chayro asked the pertinent question: what exactly is the problem? What's the first thing that pops into your head when you try to imagine what isn't right with your sound? MAybe you already have an intuition. 

That said I would consider the Kimber cables a bottleneck - IMHO etc. I'd go for something more transparent and balanced in both speaker cables and ICs.

Also you haven't mentioned your listening space. That may be adding distortion that your system tweaks won't fix.

Look at my Casa Pacifica system photos,! You need not throw out the cork/ butcher block - supplant those w nimbus ( see amp ), there are also Nimbus under  my Herron with some carbon fiber....

Another free thing to try is light loading your output transformers on the Rogue, drop down a tap. I am running my Treo that way with a RM-9 ( light loading suggestion via the genius Roger Modjeski- RIP )

try it

There are 4 fuses under a removeable cover. This is the cover that is removed to bias the tubes. The cover is on the top right, between 2 output tubes and the output transformers.

Great ideas here, Thank you! $40 power cable ordered!
@tomic601 I’ll look into isolation for the Herron and Rogue. That’s a good idea. I have build a makeshift iso platform with butcher block and cork, etc. I do wonder if a proper isolation platform would kill more vibration tho... hmmm. 
@cakids when you say 4 topside fuses, do you mean tubes? If so, I have already rolled the small tubes to a Brimer (preamp position) and Gold Lions for the remaining 4 positions. 

If you are completely happy with your amp-speaker combo then I would look to your vinyl playback system as the next move, given your dedication to and enjoyment of the format. Your Herron will make the best of anything you put in front of it so money is your only constraint. I recently moved from a top flight VPI to an idler-type (inner rim drive) table with a top notch arm and cartridge and experienced an enormous leap in performance. Like you, I spin records almost exclusively for long, serious listening sessions. I can’t tell you what an unexpected surprise it has been to change my vinyl playback system and reap such huge sonic dividends. 

Another suggestion. Which output tubes are you using? I’ve found that KT-90s sound best. But that might not be the case with your speakers.

I had a Cronus Magnum II in a similar quality system, with the same turntable. Btw, I had Hana EL, and now have Hana ML. The most noticeable improvement that I made was to replace the 4 topside fuses with Synergistic Research. I believe that the reason these had such a good effect is that the fuses are directly in the signal path. So any degradation due to the stock fuses would directly affect the music. Nothing to lose. Can be returned if they don’t work for you.
Please - no fuse discussion. I’m just relating my experience with a single amp, and a particular installation.

If I had not already changed mine earlier this year, this would have been a very in-expensive jump into multi-arm and long arm world.

The Denon 3000 is a darn good spinner, direct drive, but not quartz locked. It could easily be swapped for a Denon quartz locked spinner in the future if you wanted.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Transcription-turntable-Denon-DP-3000-tonearms-Grace-960-Grace-565-Denon-DA...

seller might ship without the stand if you are not near enough to meet him somewhere (ask him to drive an hour or two toward you)

Only one of those 3 arms has anti-skate adjustment, a requirement for me, not everyone. Future arm changes: the rotating base plates are a terrific idea, BUT, there are clearance restrictions to be considered when the dust cover is closed. Seller answered my clearance questions very accurately. Dust cover lifts off, some people simply cover theirs with a cloth, then no height restrictions.

I would be quite satisfied with your system and personally would not chase ’improvements’.

IF you are tempted, especially if you play both mono and stereo lps, and go back and forth in the same listening session as I often do (or would like to), a huge improvement/addition:

Add a Separate Mono Cartridge

as I learned here, it makes an obvious improvement. It does not add imaging, actually by ignoring any vertical movement avoids false erratic imaging.

however it makes a large improvement in the distinct sounds of individual instruments, turns a lump of sound into individual players (hear the greats when they made their marks in the world), and has often turned some older Mono LP’s from a history lesson to an involving musical experience.

Previously I used my stereo cartridge and changed my McIntosh Preamp’s Mode to Mono, thought that was it, I am very glad I went to separate mono cartridge.

Options:
Arm with removable headshell, (I don’t think you have that now, correct?)
change arm on existing table?
new TT with removable headshell type arm?
new TT with Two Tonearms, 1 stereo, 1 mono, I did that this year.

single arm, change to mono headshell (overhang, azimuth, null points already done)

If you get a mono cartridge that can track at the same +/- 2gm weight of your Hana, then you can leave tracking/anti-skate where it is set for your Hana. Mono Stylus is Elliptical (or spherical), thus more forgiving of slight differences from perfection.
If different tracking weights, then you personally need to get quick at accurately changing them,

much easier:

Two arms, 1 stereo, 1 mono, each set as perfectly as you or someone else can, different tracking weights already individually set.

And, you can use the mono arm to change headshells to use/compare a different stereo cartridge. i.e. I use my cartridge with replaceable and affordable elliptical stylus for old lp’s, nothing sonically remarkable or those I intend to sell, rather than wear out my expensive MM and especially not needlessly wear my expensive non-replaceable MC stylus on them. Your Hana more expensive than mine, and you may move up in price in the future.

Luckily my preamp has 2 phono inputs, and, the SUT I added has 3 inputs, so it is simple to pick which arm/cartridge.

Oh yeah, if you go for a table with 2 arms, then it is usually large enough to allow a long arm, that is actually what sent me down the long arm/two arm/mono/stereo path.

I am out lots of cash, but happier than many a wallowing pig.

And when I say HRS I mean that brand or equivalent....

A different tack but more focused on extracting the max out of what you already have:

HRS isolators under the Herron ( Nimbus ) and the Rogue. And very importantly and first HRS or similar isolation for your turntable. The $40 power cable a great idea paired w hospital grade outlets. $20

i like the EL-34 VTL integrated a whisker better than the Rogue , sometimes you can find them around $2,500 but in a longer range plan I would do cartridge first. 
Finally you can get great sound in a condo :-) have fun and enjoy the music

jim

When you are trying to upgrade, I think you need to have a clear picture of what you are trying to improve.  Your system looks pretty damn good and, considering everyone here is stabbing in the dark, I would not overlook better speaker cables.  I recently upgraded my speaker cables and they made a profound change for the better to my Harbeth P3.  Bigger, fuller and just plain better-sounding to my ears.  In some systems, cables make little difference, but they can make a huge difference in others.  I have experienced both situations..  Good luck in any case. 

@mulveling Awesome! Yeah I’ve been thinking about upgrading the tonearm to support a higher end cartridge down the line. I also have been getting some subsonic woofer pumping at louder volumes and I suspect the floating magnet tonearm is part of, or even possibly the entire problem. Thanks for your thoughts, much appreciated. 

mulveling, I agree with you about the tonearm but it is no where near as bad as a uni pivot as long as you stay away from the stiffest cartridges. Schroder uses the same design in his Reference arm which has quite a following but, I am with you. I would by his CB arm. 

That’s nice gear. I would recommend two upgrades:

1. If you have the magnetic-bearing Concept tonearm, change that out to a rigid bearing arm: e.g. in the Clearaudio amp, a Satisfy (good) or Tracer (better). You may not have severe issues with the magnetic arm now, but it’s always there lurking - maybe if you change cartridges, or change your table’s location, or play music louder lol. And don’t worry about linear tracking arms, or 12" arms for now (or ever). A good 9" - 10" rigid bearing arm is fantastic.

2. Upgrade the cartridge to a next level one. I too started out with an ~$800 MC "high value" cartridge (Benz Glider L2), and it was a GREAT start but the move to an $1800 one (Ortofon Kontrapunkt "c" - older version of the Cadenza Bronze) was quite significant. BUT you must have a tonearm and phono stage that can support the move, and matches extremely well to your chosen cartridge. Your Herron phono stage (I owned one) is WAY beyond the $800 cartridge level, and can be configured to match almost any cartridge in existence - so you’re in great shape there. Some will question whether a table upgrade may be more appropriate than a cartridge, and that’s fair, but I think the Concept is a pretty nice and can handle a better cartridge if you address the tonearm.

Your amp is nice; I had an original Rogue Atlas (non-Magnum) when I did that $1800 cartridge upgrade, so I know you amp section (Cronus is just Atlas plus a simple preamp stage) is good enough to let your source upgrades shine though. In theory you’d be better off with an Atlas Magnum (don’t think the Cronus preamp stage is bypass-able) and a high quality separate tube preamp, but that’s going to probably be much more money than it’s worth for now (i.e. wait until you can do at least a Stereo 100 or M180 level amp with separate preamp).

@mijostyn good to know. Thanks.

@big_greg thanks. Yeah I’ve thought about adding two more subs but I don’t really have the room. Maybe when I move out of my condo. Good call tho!

It looks like you've put together a really nice system.  Your source is probably the weak link, although the Concept is a really nice table and the Hana SL is a great cart for the money.  An upgrade of the table and/or cart would probably have the most impact.  Another upgrade to consider would be to add two more subs if you have room.

Paul, IMHO absolutely nothing other than the $300 cable will look really nice which will trick many brains into thinking it sounds better. 

@noromance Thanks I’ll look into upgrading my power cable. What’s the difference between a $40 power cable and a $300 dollar one?

Hey noromance,
I am working on pictures of the system. I am having some trouble getting decent pictures of the computer screen. Next I will try a dark room and play around with the brightness.

Hi Paul, Great system! If you are getting cleanly to the volume you like then there is no need to upgrade the electronics. Your Herron has loads of gain so you are virtually unlimited in terms of cartridges there. Your tonearm is excellent but given the magnetic bearing I would avoid the lowest compliance cartridges like the Koetsu's and Air Tights. This would be a perfect job for the Lyra Delos or the Ortofon Cadenza Blue. I think that either of these cartridges will make an audible improvement in your sound quality and improve the tracking ability of your rig. Here is a comparison of the Hana to the Ortofon Quintet Black. https://www.analogplanet.com/content/hana-sl-mc-750-versus-ortofon-quintet-black-s-mc-999

If you have the factory power cable on your amp, try a BLE rhodium 10 gauge on eBay for $40 to get an idea of the improvement. Look into tweaking what you have.

Decent system. Buy records from the 50s - 60s(70s) and a good cleaning solution to really hear vinyl.