A couple weeks back I inquired as to a preamp upgrade, most likely tube, and received much appreciated advice. I now wonder if the upgrade bug should begin with the RME, although in many circle it receives very high marks. When listening to jazz trios/quartets I notice sharp piano strikes can become quite strident. I’m looking into NOS, R2R dacs with good USB capability. Mojo, entry, medium Lampi’s, Gordon Rankin Wavelength, Border Patrol SEi are a few where I have interest. Not so much the Chinese made R2R ladder dacs.
Have the RME coupled with tube mono blocks in a full range system and nothing strident there. Had made some EQ settings in the RME but the biggest improvement as it turned out was adding a tube type preamp and not run direct into the amps. Others took any edge off using RME’s EQ.
I’ve experienced the same with my RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE... direct into amps sounds really, really good. Going into my Ayre KX-5 Twenty and now Ayre KX-R Twenty, the preamp in line sounds better.
I think the context is important though. RME ADI 2 units direct into amps could satisfy many, and it’s definitely worth trying first when building a system and getting things going faster.
I had the RME ADI-2 FS V2 (AKM chip) and Chord Mojo 2 at the same time.
The Mojo 2 sounded a little more natural without giving up detail or perceived speed.
The RME sounded more in my face....front row center (exciting presentation)....with the Mojo 2 I felt farther back in the audience...which felt more natural and less fatiguing.
RME gives perception of a wider soundstage. Mojo 2 gives feeling of a deeper soundstage.
Speakers used were Philharmonic BMR with Van Alstine SET 120 amp.
Have the RME coupled with tube mono blocks in a full range system and nothing strident there. Had made some EQ settings in the RME but the biggest improvement as it turned out was adding a tube type preamp and not run direct into the amps. Others took any edge off using RME’s EQ.
Just a simple Schiit Saga saw a nice improvement in sound stage and dimensionality. Folks talk about the RME having a precision-type laser sharp sound but flat in presentation. Even using tube amps, it was a surprise to see the improvement adding the little Schiit Saga pre. It is significant in improvement and shows how capable the RME is and here with a rather inexpensive Schiit Sage taking the preamp chores away.
Before going into a heavy new DAC investment in a system with a pricey DAC, I’d try a preamp in the system first.
Above someone said the PS Audio DSD senior would cost $3000 used. Maybe the Mark II, But the original is often available for under $2000. There's one for sale at TMR right now for $1400. I still love mine after 6 years. Detailed and musical, though not the quietest noise floor.
Hello, Another option is changing the digital cable. I have played with this a lot. It makes a big difference. Also, the power cable. Try the Puritan Classic plus power cable. It can really help out your RME. Also the decay is killer.
Hello, I thought the RME had a built in EQ. Can’t you adjust this for your liking?
I was thinking the same thing... it has Parametric EQ in the digital domain. This is an interesting thing... I have an Ayre KX-R Twenty preamp, Ayre MX-R amps, Ayre QB-9 Twenty DAC, and an RME ADI-2/4 unit. I also have the RME ADI-2 DAC FS, as I bought up to the ADI-2/4 unit when I was so impressed with the ADI-2 DAC FS and figured I might as well get the one with all the bells & whistles... and Digital PEQ output.
I think the RME ADI units are some of the most revelatory pieces of gear I’ve ever used. I absolutely LOVE my RME stuff. It is exceptional as a preamp, but my Ayre preamps add magic that isn’t there when going RME direct into the amps. The thing is, it’s so good that is has to be kept in context too.
This is a perfect example of folks having different preferences / experiences... and why ya gotta listen for yourself - with gear you are very familiar with. I’ve made it a point to listen to several DACs in my own little shootout, and I learned what I wanted to know.
Indeed it does but still comes off as strident. And while I do favor detail it comes with too much sharpness. And while I may be considered a simpleton I find the menu system extremely frustrating to use. And yes I am considering a couple pieces on TMR with the RME in a deal.
The RME is a good DAC but agree with others if you are using the the stock SPS with it. I know the manual says the stock power supply is great but that is not so true as when I switched out to the Teddy Pardo LPS is greatly improved things. That being said no doubt there are better DAC's out there. If you buy new you are going to spend alot to outperform the RME, but on the used market it can easily be done for not much more than even the RME/Teddy Combo. I enjoyed the Combo but I don't miss it either.
I went from RME to Schiit Yggy OG to Holo Spring 3 KTE. To be honest, didn't like RME sound, its just too flat and "digital". Yggy was a big big upgrade, love that DAC. Don't know why are people prising RME so much, maybe for headphones, but i use it only in speaker stereo system.
Had the RME ADI 2fs with a Teddy Pardo LPS which was a nice setup. The Teddy Pardo definitely improved a pretty good DAC. I ended up trading my RME/Teddy to TMR when they were selling refurbished PS Audio DirectStream MKI’s with a one year warranty. I would say PSA is in another league and very happy with the upgrade. You can probably get a DirectStream MKI for around $1700 in great shape no problem and maybe less.
The DSD MKI is going to have a fuller, more refined sound. Top end is there but not at all edgy/harsh and will extract more micro detail than the RME. The bottom end has a lot more weight and even with the Teddy Pardo. It’s hands down a better DAC and should being 5X the price when new. I can play it for many hours and never get tired or fatigued.
Would strongly suggest looking into a DSD MKI. Warning though as with it’s improvement I ended up buying a PS Audio AirLens and just recently their current PerfectWave SACD Transport with both connected with the I2S HDMI cables.
Take a look into the Lab 12 Reference DAC. NOS DAC that is very analog sounding. It’s built for USB but has Toslink and Coax. Music room sells new and used ones. Also, USAM has ones on occasion.
Forgot to mention the new LTA Aero DAC that also offers a 14-day a trial period and is made in the US. I don’t wanna put words in @teajaymouth, but inferring from his review of the Aero and what he’s said of his experience with the Tubadour (can’t recall which version) the Aero maintains the desirable musicality/tonal properties but may hold an edge in detail retrieval especially in the treble region. Maybe Terry will chime in here, but I’d think the LTA would appeal to you for its strong combination of transparency and musicality versus many other R2R and/or tubed DACs especially in sub $4k realm, and again there’s that trial period. Ok, that’s all I got.
I have a Tubadour V..moved up froma Okto Dac8. what I found with the Tubdour..was a wider sound stage..extending outside th speakers..more air/space between instruments. A fuller more rich sound. Love it...and its gonna be around a long time.
I almost bought a Tubadour III se...but wanted the reclocker the IV and the V have...ended up splurging a lil and found a deal on the V and coudn't be happier. BTW you can add the reclocker on a III Se.
Any users/samplers of the Audio Mirror Tubadour(s)? They seem highly appreciated and I’ve dealt with Vlad in the past. Owned both his 20 and 45 watt single ended amps and still own his older T-61 preamp. Great CS.
Soix - I agree about too far to the soft(er) sound as I do like detail, transparency and a quiet noise floor.
Are tubed DACs designs an oxymoron? Pop the hood on most dacs and they’re an
testament to extreme engineering compared to something like the Border Patrol, Wavelength even Gishelli Labs. There are times when the KISS theory makes sense. Provided it sounds right -
You mentioned that you aren't too interested in Chinese r2r dacs.
Sounds News gave a rave review of the new Gustard X30 dac. It's Chinese, but not r2r. Price is $2999. You might check it out. I'm very happy with my Gustard dac, but it's an r2r dac.
I agree the RME is doing you no favors in terms of stridency, and although the move to R2R is a logical one I’d beware of going too far into the warm/lush range given where you’re coming from, and Mojo and Border Patrol would be a big sonic shift in that direction from where you are now. Frankly, and although you’re looking to avoid ChiFi, I’d still recommend doing a trial of the new LAiV Harmony DAC as it gives you the benefits of R2R yet still provides a good dose of transparency/detail you’re used to with your RME DAC. Hey, it’s just a trial so you don’t have to necessarily get married, but if it blows you away it might be worth expanding your search parameters a bit. Other DACs from T+A and Rockna would be worth a look as would maybe the Schiit Yggdrasil, and although it’s not R2R this Bricasti M3 would no doubt be a huge upgrade across the board…
Thanks - I’d prefer a higher end unit which would mean used. I forgot to mention Audio Mirror in my search. Tubadour 3 preferably 4. I can’t see spending more than $3K, three and a half max max. I’ve seen two Mojo’s that fall there.
Thanks
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