Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

This is my setup! If have only changed the Chord Quest. A Linn Klimax Streamer makes a better job😉.

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2022/03/cube-audio-nenuphar.html?m=1

@stephendunn +1 regarding:

It’s been an interesting and enlightening journey.

And one that has paid off, big-time, for you. Your effort is admirable.

@v10 Welcome! I’ve been very curious about a GM70 pairing with the Nenuphars. Great to hear you are loving your NAT - V2 combo. The Single HPS looks like quite the build. Thanks for posting your results with the NAT and how it easily bettered the Pass XA25.

I have of course tried both modes. I personally like the normal mode with 2x 50 watts better. The Vinnie Rossi L2iSE mentioned in the above post has twice the power and should also fit very well with the Nenuphar.
A low damping factor is important! The higher the damping factor of the amplifier is the less it fits to the Nenuphar.
I have also tried the Pass INT25. This amp has a damping factor of 500. I did not like it so much! It sounded a bit harsh and less round in the midrange and also in the bass.

@v10 

I'm not surprised with your outcome.  NAT audio has earned an esteemed reputation as one of the better sounding amplifier manufacturers out of eastern Europe. 50 watts class A from a gm 70 is a lot of power for the Nenuphars.  Do you utilize the optional lower power setting?

Charles 

NAT Audio Single HPS

Hello guys!

I am a proud owner of the Nenuphar V2. I can highly recommend the integrated NAT Single HPS V2! For me that amp is one of the best tube integrated! 

@stephendunn 

Every single amplifier you've listed would all be considered very good amplifiers paired with the Nenuphars.  So it seems quite clear that the Enleum 23R is pushing major buttons for your tastes. No one can accuse you of not exploring amplification options. 

Charles 

@david_ten Thanks. Considering the amps that have been stepping stones leading up to the Enleum AMP 23R--LTA ZOTL Ultralinear, FW SIT 3, FW SIT 1, Tektron 2A3, Pass Labs 25 INT, Vinnie Rossi L2iSE, Decware 25th Anniversary Zen Triode--yes, I think this is "IT".  It's been an interesting and enlightening journey.

But I’m always interested in what you or others have found to be your "this is IT amp" with the Nenuphars.

@stephendunn  That's so impressive. Congratulations. Is this 'IT' on the amp front? : )

The closer to the real thing the audible information is, the more I "see" the music, performers, instruments, and recording space.  And, consequently, the more engaging the listening experience is.

David,

At the top of my list of why I like the Enleum AMP 23R so much is:

Visualization 

The closer to the real thing the audible information is, the more I "see" the music, performers, instruments, and recording space.  And, consequently, the more engaging the listening experience is.

@larryi  PM sent.

@stephendunn  Thanks for posting the review of the Enleum 23. I'm especially curious about it's headphone performance. Can you PM me regarding your experience in that area?

So what's at the top "of the list of why [you] like it so much" ???   : )

I realize the multiple posts are a bug...can you delete two of them?

Thanks!

Darko Audio's entertaining YouTube review of the Enleum AMP 23 is now online.  He uses an interesting analogy--his uncle's go cart--to explain the amp's volume control. My only caveat is that he seems to think it's expensive for what it does.  Considering my experience pairing amps with the Nens, I think it's a screaming bargain.  And it's a great and I mean great headphone amp.  Can't think of anything that holds a candle to it price/performance wise.  But that's at the bottom of the list of why I like it so much.

Darko Audio's review of the Enleum AMP 23R:

Thanks David.  Because I am so lazy, I probably would not go the DIY route myself, but, I do know people with the skills to do it and the ears and discrimination to make a DIY project work.  If I ever do change my speakers (not that likely because they are very good old school horn systems), certainly a viable candidate is the Nenuphar Basis which I heard at the Capital Audiofest and liked very much.  That speaker is one of the few fully realized commercial systems that has impressed me a lot; that it is a pretty good bargain is all the more reason to be impressed.

@larryi  Larry, I've been travelling and busy. I'll reach out to you.

@paullb   Thanks for the feedback, Paul.

I checked out the recent YouTube videos comparing the Nenuphar and the Jazzon. With the caveat that I don't have the best headphones, I found the Nenuphars to be noticeably more engaging than the Jazzons. They just had a liveliness that the Jazzons did not. I didn't hear nearly as much difference between the V1 and V2 drivers within the Nenuphars family. The two versions sounded very similar to me - again in my admittedly modest headphone set up.

David and other owners,

Have you had a look inside the box?  I saw a photo once that showed it to be a box lined with foam panels.  But, the name suggests it is a tapered quarter wave tube loading arrangement which would include a slanted piece of wood creating two tapered chambers.  Is this the configuration? 

It might be play around with those terrific drivers and either a foam-lined tube with a vent on the bottom or a similar TQWT alignment would be not that hard to build. 

YouTube video of the Jazzon posted by Cube Audio (for those who want to compare it to the Nenuphar):

Cube Audio Jazzon Video

[There are a number of videos of the different models for comparison. Click on 'Cube Audio Full Range Loudspeakers' when in YouTube].

Some Custom Color Options for the Nenuphar, courtesy of Mono and Stereo:

Nenuphar Custom Colors

Direct wiring does have benefits, I’ve tried. Ricevs, let us know if you start that OB thread.

stephendunn,

Sure,,,,no probem.....but then you do not get to tune your system with different flavors of speaker wire. And, as debjit said....experimenting with wire is made very hard.  If you have mono blocks then absolutely you can mount them right behind the speaker and use the wire coming out and hook it right to your amp posts...using the wire tinned (no spade/banana....all connectors suck)..  

debjit_g,

Most speaker wires are not shielded.

@ricevs I’ve been thinking about your detailed suggestion for rewiring the Nenuphars and wonder why you wouldn’t just procure enough of the wire you are using internally to go from voice coil to amp, skipping "speaker cable" altogether?

The internal speaker wire is short and you can use a high quality one to replace it. For external wire, if you are content with the internal wire and never plan to experiment, you can always extend the internal ones externally as well but remember than the external wires are usually long (unless you are using monoblocks close to the speaker) and will need extra attention to shield and all. If you plan to experiment with speaker cables then its a pain to desolder/solder every time to change it.

@ricevs I’ve been thinking about your detailed suggestion for rewiring the Nenuphars and wonder why you wouldn’t just procure enough of the wire you are using internally to go from voice coil to amp, skipping "speaker cable" altogether?

David,

Why is a discussion of the suitability of the Cube driver for use in OB systems not an appropriate subject for this thread?  It appears to be a thread about both the speaker and the driver.  
While I have my doubts that this driver would be better sounding in an OB (because I think the designers would have tried it this way), I nonetheless think it should be an excellent candidate for such use for fans of OB speakers because of its overall competence.  

As the OP, I've asked once and now I'm asking again. Both have been polite requests. I do not want to engage Admin and have multiple posts deleted.

As @toetapaudio  and @larryi have suggested, and I have requested...it is easy to start a thread on open baffle speakers and other full range speakers. 

Thank you.

@larryi    I have only heard two or three OB designs but uniformly, they all exhibited a thinness, a lack of weight or gravitas, that left me wanting for more. I'm not saying they can't scale the heights but I haven't heard it.

The Nenuphar might have slightly deeper bass than putting the driver on an open baffle. My friends 10 inch lii driver on the open baffle I described is flat in large livingroom to 40hz and 5 db down at 30. The Nenuphar cannot move that much air at lower frequencies and that is why there is the Basis.....the Basis adds low bass and punch and the smaller ported cabinet for the full range makes it roll off the lower bass on the full range driver.....so it will play louder without overload. You could do the same with an open baffle version of a Cube.....you add woofs underneath and you change the coupling cap in your tube amp or whatever that creates a 6db per octave rolloff on the main driver areound 60-100hz without adding any crossover parts. If you use a better quality cap in the amp....then you have another boost in sound. Lots of ways up the mountain. Creativity and an open mind are king.

It is not just the large front baffle and space requirement that works against OB, they do not go as deep bass-wise because of the lack of reinforcement and because of out of phase cancellation.  I personally don't give ultra deep bass a high priority, so OB speakers are attractive, but, the market seems to really put such a premium on ultra deep bass--hence the use of subwoofers, popularity of high wattage solid state amps that can deliver bass punch, etc.  

A lot of the modern speakers with their very narrow front profiles sound the way they look, to me--thin and lacking is weight.  I do wonder if not enough concern is given to baffle-step and diffraction issues with some of these thin baffle designs.

The reason Cube (and most companies) do not make open baffle speakers is that it is not an easy sell. The baffle needs to be large, you need space behind the speaker or you do what Nelson does and add woofer below. They are selling a look....a lifestyle......slickness....they are not selling super hot rods.

Look at the crappy wire and banana plug Nelson is using....he is not a tweak, for sure......no Ground Enhancer, No Bybee, no wiring directly to the voice coil wire.....and not good wire......probably has the same banana things on the amp end of the speaker wire.....you know...so he change change wires or amps real fast.....Hot rodding is so easy.....and takes so little time....and the sonic rewards are amazing..........but, he just has no interest in it. He even told me so.

Nelson uses Cube f8 in OB

https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-26-nelson-pass-harmonic-distortion-page-2

I do like some open baffle speakers, but, I would think that if it were so easy to make a "much better version of the Cube speaker" by making a very easy to build and cheap open baffle version, Cube or someone else would have done so already.  There are probably good reasons why went with what appears to be a version of the Voigt pipe form of loading.  

Still, it would be great to have a thread with DIYers showing off their designs.  I've heard some really interesting OB speakers, including some monster, cost is no object designs using twin 18" fieldcoil woofers in a baffle more than 4.5 feet wide.  

ricevs, good suggestions about OB and direct wiring but can I suggest a separate thread on OB designs for a fuller discussion. I would chime in since I have a number of designs and drivers in mind and intend to put them together this year including field coils.

david_ten

There is no such thing as a thread that only mentions one speaker. Already people are talking about Horning, Charney, Voxative, and whatever. Of course, people want to know how Cube compares to whatever.......this is what the game is about. Now, if the thread was titled....."Only Cube owners experiences, please"......then MAYBE you have a point.

Some people feel threatened by my comments on improving the speaker......and mentioning other speakers that are maybe way cheaper and could be alternatives........if you like feeling bad.....that is your choice. I suggest you choose joy no matter what the circumstance.....it feels much better and lifts everyone. My intention is to educate and inform......about audio and life.

In that vein, I will now mention a much better version of a Cube speaker.....an open baffle speaker you make yourself. You can buy the drivers in the US for something like $6,000 a pair delivered. You can take $500 worth of 3/4 inch 13 ply baltic birch plywood and 3/4 inch highly refined MDF and make a baffle 2 feet wide by four feet high. You also make wings that are one foot by four foot on each side going straight back (felt on the inside of the wings so the rear radiated highs will not bounce off the wings). You use the Birch for the front and rear and the MDF layer in between.....all baffles 2.25 inches thick. You mount the driver near the top of the baffle and use all my techniques and you will have way, way, way better sound than a stock Nenuphar......and on a baffle that is basically a four foot square folded back....you will have bass down to 40hz in your room. Of course, you will need a good sized room and the baffle has to be at least 5 feet from the rear wall. With all my tweaks plus the sound of open baffle (total elimination of box sound and rear radiation)........this would blow you mind. You can finish and shape the baffles any way to please your eye. The speaker wire would be wired directly to your amp from the voice coil wire......OMG. Total cost....less than $7500. If you do not have any woodworking skills you can hire some local woodworker for $1000 to make them for you with super finishing.

Drivers....$6K, Ground Enhancers $38, Bybee Clarifiers $220, wood and glue and screws $550......footers? Finishing? With a table saw and router you could build these in one weekend (without finishing).......you assemble and it sounds so good you wait for a loooooooooooooong time before taking the drivers out and finishing it......it will sound that good........Who will be the first to do this? Not everyone is conservative and just buys stuff. Way less than half price you have something way frickin better.

I will leave this thread for awhile and let you talk about amps and such......will check back later......maybe someone will try what I suggest and post here or start their own thread. Would be lovely if a Nenuphar owner built an open baffle version and compared.....really cool.

Of course, you can add supertweeters (some already have) and woofs......that is another story for another time. Have fun. Love is all there is.

Photos of Cube Audio Nenuphar speakers in a customer's home, courtesy of Mono and Stereo:

Cube Audio Nenuphar, system, room photos

No, I have not heard the latest Horning Aristotle Ellipse.  I have heard other Horning speakers which are very dynamic and exciting sounding.  I do like their use of full range drivers as wide range drivers in multi-way systems.  Some of their systems sound a bit too bright or hard sounding for my taste, but, overall, I prefer that to the dead sound of most low-efficiency modern speakers.

@jonwatches1  You are welcome!  Keep us posted on what you choose. Reach out, should you have additional questions.

@larryi 

Have you heard the latest version of the Horning Aristotle Ellipse PM65. Spectacular! Love to compare it to the Cube Audio offerings. No resistors or inductors in the Horning.  Only one cap on the tweeter. True full range performance with outstanding speed and dynamics.  

The Nenuphar is a complete system, so it is hard to compare with a driver.  So far, I haven't heard a single driver Lowther system I preferred to the Nenuphar, but, I haven't heard the Charney Audio system with the Lowther driver; I heard, and really liked their systems with AER and Voxativ drivers. 

These days, single driver systems are doing so much more to overcome the disadvantages of a single driver, while retaining the advantages, such that they are contenders in the high end arena.  For my taste, I like the two-way Nenuphar Basis and I still like really good horn-based systems more than single driver systems, but, I could live with a number of single driver systems I've heard. 

@stephendunn - thanks for sharing your impressions - much appreciated! - Jonathan

@david_ten - thanks so much for your kind response - really helpful - best - Jonathan

@ricevs  Please note this thread is specific to Cube Audio and the Nenuphar. You are free to start your own thread regarding another speaker. Thank you.

ENGLISH LOWTHER IN THE ORIGINAL (THIS IS IMPORTANT) CASE - 10 TIMES BETTER ...

10x better than what? 

Quite a few happy Nenuphar owners have heard or owned other full range drivers and have decided to go  forward with Cube Audio offerings. There are numerous alternative choices available.  If Lowther drivers stoke your passion then go for it. A number of experienced listeners may prefer Cube Audio to Lowther.  YMMV.

Charles 

Just for clarity; at the present time there is only one version of the Enleum and that’s the 23R. Any other references are for older Bakoon models.