Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

"Does anyone know how they differ"?
Differences between the model generations were covered in Dudley's review. 
Charles 

@stephendunn  Thanks for taking the effort and time [it's a  significant undertaking] on removing the Nenuphars from the Townshend platforms and conducting the A/Bs both on and off of the platforms.

Thanks also for sharing your results and your overall preference.

For me, the platforms are a NO GO. It's unfortunate that we can't listen to each others' setups. : )

@kw6  +1 to @stephendunn 's response to your question (both copied below):

Stephen >>> "Nenuphars have ten inch drivers....those drivers deliver a ton of top end air.  Have you read reviews at 6 Moons, Stereo Times and avshowrooms among others?  They might help overcome your concerns about a single wideband driver. "

You >>> "Still concerned no tweeter not able to get top end air! What do you think?"

BTW, I just read up on the Odeon Rigoletto 2020s and they appear to be a great choice.

@abd1  You have excellent company and are in a very good place with your Alan Eaton and Primaluna amps and those tube choices at your disposal. For me, reading your post is happiness inducing. Thanks!!!

david_ten I was curious about the platforms and since my last iteration was with the speakers on their spikes I've done a little experimenting.  I found that I much prefer the Stillpoints Ultra SS in place of the front spikes!  I'm not sure if I like them better than the platforms, but all this has made me realize that driver height makes a big difference with the Nens.  Off the platforms the middle of the driver, dare I say tweeter?, is pretty much at ear height.  On the platforms they are almost 3" higher.  That alone, regardless of what the platform technology is doing, is going to impact SQ.  

@stephendunn  Correct!!!  Placement is such a critical and rewarding factor with speakers in general.

Have you raised / have you considered raising your listening position to accommodate the 3 inch height increase with the Nenuphars on the Townshend platforms?

I imagine the results will be different with the bass reflex cabinet designs (i.e. sealed bottom cabinet versions) ???

david_ten  No I haven't tried raising my listening position--not really practical.  Trying to figure out now whether I like center of driver at ear level or not...

I’ve also found a modest but worthwhile improvement using Stillpoints in place of the factory spikes. Stillpoints makes some adaptors that work for the Nenuphars too. I think they’re for the Acoustic Zen Adagios, going from 1/4” to M6.  

Thanks David!

Also new kid on the block! The new Zen speakers with 15 inch open baffle sounds intriguing. Anyone here heard them?

At the Capital Audiofest, I got to hear the Cube Nenuphar Basis speaker in a very large conference room setup, with the speakers set far away from any room boundaries.  The electronics included a particularly rare First Watt amplifier.

The sound of the setup was fantastic--rich, harmonically dense and complete, relaxed and natural sounding while remaining lively.  This was among the best sounds I heard at the show.  The mild reservations I had about the sound of the 10" Nenuphar systems I've heard before at shows, were completely non-existent in this system--no upper midrange peak or tendency to "shout" and superb performance with music that required weight, such as full scale classical music.  In absolute terms, a very good sounding system, and at its price, a fantastic bargain.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_0HOgRxCMk

It's rather difficult to separate out how much the room, as well as the recording position, is contributing to the sound.

Sounds like highlighting upper mid - lower height frequencies.

@larryi   Larry, thanks for sharing your personal and in-person findings from the Capital Audio Fest. 

The T+A PA 3100 HV integrated is back in the system (after a very long run addressing break-in playtime due to recent other component and cable changes).

I'm bypassing it's preamp section. The T+A SDV 3100 HV is serving as Preamplifier. For those unfamiliar with the SDV, it is a Network Player/Streamer + DAC + Preamp with completely separate digital and analog sections (including the power supplies and power cables).

Sound quality, even with a full on digital solid state chain, is exceptional. Emotional, Engaging, Natural. 

Stressing this point since many in this thread are driving their Nenuphars with solid state systems. 

,,,,just waiting on david to get back with me on settinga  time to hear his Cube Neuphars...... David are you cking your  mail box????

 

@mozartfan  Paul, I got tied up last evening. I did see your first post (now deleted), but not the second one.

I'll follow through via PM. I have received your message.

Since you expressed interest in the smaller Cube Audio drivers, and are approaching this from a DIY angle, I suggest reaching out to Grzegorz directly via email.

They offer some details on their website for cabinet construction, etc. but he may be able to put you in touch via a forum or facebook group etc (over in Europe) that are using their drivers with DIY audio variations. Google translate makes it easy.

Hey David, Yes, I will  reach out to Grzegorz and see how it is possible to audition a  Cube Neuphar speaker.

I am approaching this DIY, and so makes sense to ordera  single driver pair and go from there.

Speakers look great.

Alittle out my budget on the Nd magnets.

I'll try the intro model the FC8 ferrite magnet.

btw feel free to come on over and hear the Davidlouis VX8 and soon the VX6 speakers. 

Just PM me when you have time.

My schedule is open, I'm in Kenner

paul

Every review on Cube has the speaker as their Reference Fidelity Speaker. I can’t say until I make a real time hearring

I did visit the several YT uploads, and prefer to withhold making any comments as to what I think I MIGHT BE hearing.

My Reference Speaker is the DavidLouis

So when we do get a shhotout it will be

Reference vs Reference,,we will see, or better we will hear.

Both have stunning magnet systems.

Impeccable highly crafted designs

The 1 thing that separates these 2 drivers ,,well Cube has multi whiizers and the models witha single whizzer the cone is very large,,, is the cone type material

Cube offers some kind of paper with a NEW coating.

vs

DavidLouis wood cone, and some sort of heavy paper whizzer.

Thats the only thing different.

As we all know cone material makes all the difference in how a speaker responds to fq imput from the source/amplification electron energy.

As the electrons strike the cone, this produces a electrical energy charge being composed of musical notations.

This energy is transfered to the magnet and the magnet pushes this musical notations out via the cone material.

Thus cone material being different, both speakers will project a different sound image.

IOW Cube and Davidlouis will not sound the same, even though the magnet structure of both offer high energy.

I do plan next year to order the FC8 and only ifa return policy is offered.

I will pay a 10% - 20% restock fee as is my protocol with any return, tubes, amps, cd players. Although I rarely make returns.

Its just good business etiquette,,and keeps everyone happy.

The return policy / restock policy question is a good one.

Jon Ver Halen of Refined Audio is the U.S. Importer/Distributor for Cube Audio and he would be able to answer and address the question.

 

There is indication (for example: the 6Moons "coming next" thumbnail) of a coming announcement regarding the Nenuphar F10 Neo driver.

Posting this as a heads-up.

 

Regarding the F10 Neo V2...from 6Moons / Srajan Ebaen (initial post... and to be continued):

Cube Audio F10 Neo V2 driver

 

hummm Interesting

V2 a  *new* version of the Nd 10.

Can't be any changes on the magnet, at 3 lbs of Nd power, whats there to **upgrade*?? 

Cone material/design? 

Wonder if Cube will  swap out the **older** Nd10 for the *newer* version.

With a   small fee attached. 

IMHO I think Cube should have gone in the other direction on cone size. Must be those EU audiophiles wanting, demanding a  **super FR  * that cats as a  sub woofer style bass bang. 

hummm , don't need deep bass, my genre is CM, just some kettle drum s now and then, no deep bass required.

I think Cube should have gone on to develope a  W6 and then  maybe a  W4. But certainly a  W6 before a  W15. 

Will be interesting to see the New *improved*(?) Nd10 V2

Hey David thanks for the update, Keep us posted on futher comments from 6 Moons. 

 

Possibly they have found a way to reduce the number of whizzers. My logic may well be faulty but, knowing that they are developing a 15", it would seem that even more WCs would be necessary to flatten its response in comparison to the 10". And that would not be a very elegant proposition. So, maybe, in an effort to hem in the number on the upcoming 15" they have discovered a simpler solution for the 10". Or maybe I'm all wet🙄.

Brief mention (at this time) over on the Cube Audio website:

 

"F10 Neo has been updated to version 2. You can expect it now to be have even more bass, higher top end extension with slight reduction of upper mid-range at the same time."

Some additional detail (though not much)...but thankfully a photo of the new driver over at 6Moons:

 

Cube Audio F10 Neo V2 Driver

The deliberate slow tease is in full effect courtesy  of Ebaen.

Charles 

From Mono and Stereo (with a few photos):

F10 Neo and F8 Neo V2

 

 

I have asked for more details and will post here.

@toetapaudio  Thanks, Richard. If the new drivers are available, as claimed on the Cube Audio website, then the specifications and new measurements should be up as well. Perhaps you can pass that feedback on?

Yes indeed, David.

I emailed Jon at Refined Audio and he said that the driver upgrade would require sending him original drivers and his replacing “the cones” for a price of “roughly $1500”.  I think this is a fair deal from Cube Audio. 

Assuming of course the new drivers are an easily discernible upgrade. 

@stephendunn  Thanks. That's super helpful.

Did Jon give you a feel for turnaround time?

Yes, David, he said 1.5 to 2 weeks and that he would post about the whole process on his website once he knew more.

This is going to present another possible upgrade opportunity: to replace hook up wire while driver is being upgraded.  Wire is apparently connected to drivers via banana plugs which should make replacement a little easier.  But of course how would one determine how much of the upgrade was due to new hookup wire or new "cones"?  At any rate I'm holding my horses until Srajan weighs in.  Also, sent him an email to remind him there are a bunch of us Nen owners eagerly awaiting his verdict on the new drivers and thanking him for his review of the IFI pro iDSD Signature which arrives today for a 60 day home trial via Music Direct.  

@stephendunn What will you be comparing the iFi Pro iDSD Signature to? Within your primary system?

Srajan Ebaen was one of my go to reviewers, however, I’ve become less enamoured over the last couple of years . He has many self imposed and rationalized limitations...which of course he has every right to... but it seriously restricts his bandwidth.

BTW, I have the iFi Micro iDSD Signature for desktop duties, when the need arises.

Thanks for the additional information on the turnaround time, etc.

The iFi Pro iDSD Signature would be for a second system although I wouldn’t be surprised if it could hold its own against my Totaldac d-1 dual. We’ll see.

All reviewers I know of have "self imposed and rationalized limitations" so you have to pick and choose. Srajan is one of three reviewers I’ve trusted enough to buy on their recommendation and so far I have not been disappointed. The other was Jack Roberts when he was writing for Dagogo. And the third was Art Dudley who turned me onto Shindo gear. I can see how all three of those reviewers share similar self imposed and rationalized limitations.

I'd go very carefully with shipping back your drivers to get reconed.

1) are you 100% positive you will prefer the new upgrade over what you have now

2) 1-2 weeks turn around,,

ahhh, any guarantee 14 days by midnight last day of the 14??.

**ohh shipping was slow,,,,shop over loaded with recone orders,,,,some techs are out for various reasons...***

Watch Judge Judy sometimes, the things folks get themselves into.

Just saying....

mozartfan  Can't be 100% sure unless you audition them obviously, which I can't.  But, as I've intimated, I would trust Srajan's recommendation.

Jon is estimating turn around time.  I don't think he's done an upgrade yet.  He's a very straight up person/distributor, so I think once he knows what the turn around will be, he'll be transparent in letting us know.  Will obviously have a lot to do with volume.

As for Judge Judy, not sure what you're alluding to.  That I do the upgrade and am so unhappy I sue distributor/manufacturer and end up on Judge Judy to get my $1500 back plus original drivers?  Absolutely, she would be my first choice for resolution... 

As for Judge Judy, not sure what you’re alluding to

 

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I’m sure Cube will be straight and honest/fair with its Neu owners in the manner they handle the upgrade. Its just that if you watch some of these petty court cases, folks trust the other party to the point of blind faith. Just saying.... You definetly do not want to be w/o music for more than what the agreements states. 14 days should mean 14 days OR LESS. Not 14 days + a few extra. If Cube was straight,, they could say, IF we can’t get the driver back to you in 14 days or less, its a 50% discount off upgrade,,Or something like that. This is my point.

 

That 14 days might just be a hopeful guess. Cna you imagine if it extended beyond 3,4, 5 weeks. Thats my reference to *Judge Judy*. Welcome to the real world which harbors a few surprises.

Stephen, interested to know your thoughts on iFi Pro iDSD Signature. Other reasonably priced dacs that seem interesting are Lab12 Reference and MHDT Orchid. I might be getting my hands on these? Would make an interesting separate thread I think.

toetapaudio  Yes, I will post impressions in a separate thread.  Have about 6 hours on it right now.  There are so many filters and combinations that I've hardly scratched the surface.  First raw impression:  GIANT KILLER, beware.

Here's how I see things as they stand

OK so you ship the driver off in the ~~hopes~~ of improvement in overall sound. 

Got it

A bit risky if you  ask me.

Lets say there si something(s) you like about the **new impvoed* cone,,but then, perhaps you find after some time, you miss the **old style* sound.

Now what?

REship back to have **old style* cone RE-intstalled??

I don't think so. 

Now ya got a  fly in the soup.

If DavidLouis told me, ship your VC8 and VX6 back for FREE reconing, and WE pay ship boths ways.

Our ~~New ~~ cone is so much better in bass.mids, highs.

I'd say, 

**Why? For what? *

I like the speakers exactly the way they voice now.

Just saying...

 

Cube is going to have to figure another option for its owners. 

Persoanlly if it were me, I wouldnt do it. 

1st off, they dont even tell us whats so special about the new cone materail.

have they gone to wood fiber composite now?

If yes, then yes I would ship back. I love wood composite

But if the  new looks darn close to the old, no I would not take the chance.

I don’t see that there is a need for a rush into this, let’s get more details and let Srajan finish his review. It’s damn fine as it is imo.

Based on the photo on the current last displayed page on 6 Moons, it looks like Cube when to a single footer on the front baffle and two footers on the rear of the cabinet.

+1 @toetapaudio

I don’t see that there is a need for a rush into this, let’s get more details and let Srajan finish his review. It’s damn fine as it is imo.

@mikeg Mike, I noticed that as well...however, I thought Srajan was swapping out the drivers. Can you confirm if he received a completely new set of drivers + cabinets? Thanks.

 

Based on the photo on the current last displayed page on 6 Moons, it looks like Cube when to a single footer on the front baffle and two footers on the rear of the cabinet.

It’s damn fine as it is imo.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

This is basically how I see..hear things. I mean whats the rush? If it sounds great as **IS*, its too risky going for *2 birds in the bush**

. Seems Cube has the magnet down pack, maybe they feel there was a mod to be done on the cone. As you guys know in FR speaker tech. magnet quality and cone material, Both equally of highest importance. Voxativ has 1 or 2 wooden models, and the rest is this super thin paper garbage. AER has their own in house paper traeted which they will not even whisper 1 word the composition, = *Top Secret** Tang band has a really nice banana fiber which I like , but not up to the wood level in some lower fq;’s. Fostex has smashed Kenaf leaf fiber. And alsoa double sandwiched cone model. So every manufacturer has taken their own specific route in cone material. I’ve looked at Cube’s site, they really dont go into the composition. Seems like paper composite, nice and stiff. Cube w/o doubt has the finest magnet motor with 81 Nd cylinders @ 1480 grams of pure Nd power. That aint cheap ya know.

But then the sens level is a bit too high for my needs/preferences. Small room, near field, low SPL. 95db sensitivity is ideal, or actually I;’d prefer 94 db, sens, but I ain’t complaining.

The DLVX6 is a wonderful 93db sens, which just BARELY allows for me to work it in with the VX8. Had the VX6 been 94db, sens, it would be 1 db sens too high to employ as a backup dual. basically it all comes down to which manufacturer has the cone material that sounds best to you and your music selections.

 

Keep us informed how the new cone upgrade sounds vs the original cone.

Srajan Ebaen has wrapped up his ’review' of the Nenuphars with the F10 Neo V2 drivers.