I estimate my Nenuphar speakers have 1500 hours on them. I kept precise numbers through early May and had logged 1100 hours as of May 7th. The EML 2A3 tubes have approximately 900 hours on them.
In addition to break-in, I have worked on improving isolation and grounding.
Next areas of focus are my Streamer / Player. I may move to a new brand or upgrade my current units. An in-home demo of a Server (being setup) should help decide direction. I will implement a full fiber optic network solution [I am 100% streaming] should I stay with my current server and player.
In the pipeline is a new Linear Power Supply (should be in system by the end of next week) for dedicated (and higher quality) supply duty for my Server. A full system power conditioning / power supply loan is in the works.
In case it isn't obvious, this is my way of saying that I am beyond pleased with the performance of the Cube Audio Nenuphar speakers as well as the components in support of them: Denafrips Terminator DAC > Grandinote Genesi preamp > Found-Music 2A3 monoblock amps. And committed to this system.
I estimate close to 750 hours of active and engaged listening time. The Audio Room serves as my home office (minimal, movable and height adjustable desk/seating in the 'sweet spot' and fanless (read silent) work electronics in an environment that measures in the high 40s for ambient noise, with the AC intake two rooms away serving as the primary culprit... when disabled: mid to low 40s).
Given my time and familiarity with the speakers, I'm ready to start writing a review.
Steakster, I also believe that David's audio system sounds "absolutely stunning ". A first rate signal chain (Denafrips, Grandinote Genesi and Found Music 2A3 SET) and the purity of the Nenuphar. My gut feeling is that the level of naturalness, tactile realism and subsequently deep emotionally involving/connecting music listening experience is simply sublime. No doubt in my mind that this system pulls you into the music and keeps you there. IMHO this is more difficult to accomplish and is more satisfying than Hifi spectacular objectives. Charles
@david_ten, I can wholeheartedly recommend one of the music servers made by Fidata. IMO better than other well known brands, most of which we have compared. There are a couple of European designs which sound interesting but we haven’t had the opportunity of trying so far but both cost more than the Fidata. I don’t think you would be disappointed with Fidata. We are using in a system which includes the Cube Nenuphars.
@toetapaudio Fidata’s XS server is very much in the mix. My concerns with it are lack (?) of Linux support. I’m Chrome based - though I do see Android control. I’m also unsure about direct Roon support (though I can load / manage it from my end).
Sound quality and overall performance for the Fidata servers (I imagine) are undoubtedly excellent. I’d love to learn more from you about their two products and other server brands you have experience with.
The Pink Faun 2.16X is also on the radar, as is Taiko Audio’s SMG server. Both are much higher priced options.
Hi David, Fidata, as you probably are aware, is a server with CD ripping and transport functionality. Two models with 1TB and 2TB storage, priced at £6k and £8k here in the U.K.Use on its own or combine with a streamer, connection through LAN, such as one of the Lumins with or without built-in dac. USB connection to a suitable free standing dac if required.
As regards sound quality it is a very impressive digital source, the best so far that we and others have tried. There have been some good reviews here
We have the cheaper 1TB model in our demo system and understand from another Fidata dealer who has tried both models, the sound quality is very close. In fact one customer of his after auditioning both at home, decided on the cheaper model.
I do not know how the Fidata compares with the Pinkfaun 2.16x (11k Euro) or the new Sound Music Gallery’s Evo (16k Euro?) but would like to try of course. Another contender would be the 432 Evo. It’s more difficult to obtain review samples from these small specialist brands. Fidata is part of a larger Japanese company, quoting from our website
“The company behind Fidata is Japanese Company, I-O Data, originally established in 1976. The parent company is involved in the design and manufacture of all types of industrial applications associated with networking and data storage and OEM products in that field.
The work on the HFAS1-S10U started in 2012 but wasn’t launched until 2016. While the brand is new the people behind the design have been experienced in the field for many years. The core team is Akita Miyamoto (hardware), Shininichi Morita (chief designer), Yuiji Minagawa (software) and Yasunori Kitamura (production).”
I should also add that the Fidata employs a specific app, from their website
fidata Music App is an OpenHome-compatible control app engineered by fidata in Japan to bring the ultimate level of ease of use to network audio.
The user interface, which has been meticulously designed for maximum convenience, goes beyond track selection to allow users to freely switch servers and playback devices. Used with fidata's HFAS1 series, it provides a pleasant, PC-less environment whose functionality extends to hardware settings and manipulation of music files on storage devices.
It’s the best app I have used.
At present I’m preoccupied with testing the Cube Nenuphars and soon the Cube Magus speakers. Soon we should have the Bakoon 13R amp and a bit later their new dac hopefully. The Fidata hasn’t let us down so far.
The Nenuphars improve everyday, we have had them for about 3 weeks so far and have noticed them opening up even further. Hopefully we will have the Cube Magus’s in a few weeks to compare. We are also expecting the Bakoon 13R amps soon to try out with the Cubes.
This has been one of the more interesting speaker threads I've read over the years. My curiosity towards single driver speakers has certainly been peaked. My only concern is coloration and potential lack of dynamics. That said, it appears that Cube Audio has done a good job of calming those trepidations.
@dawgbyte have no fear about “coloration and potential potential lack of dynamics.” Quite the opposite actually and our speakers haven’t even been fully burnt-in yet. @david_ten has informed me that they need a minimum of 200 hours. I love the effortlessness and open nature of them, instruments and harmonics are more natural, bass very well defined and not overblown, greater detail but no harshness, very dynamic but smooth and open.
If you were in the UK we would lend you some but maybe the USA distributor could sort you out. What’s the rest of your system may I ask?
My "review" of the Nenuphar speakers has taken on a life of it's own. An ongoing (everlasting) holding pattern. : )
Recent adjustments to my system have reaped significant benefits. This means the work continues. There are additional changes and approaches on the table. An evaluation by a very experienced set of ears, this coming week, will be telling and informative.
A shout out to @toetapaudio for his efforts, guidance and help in squeezing more out of these amazing speakers. Thank you very much, Robert.
Here are some of these recent changes. Most are to the very front end of the streaming chain.
Two Keces P8 ultra low noise linear power supplies to power the server (one unit) and the Netgear Orbi Pro satellite plus my Wyred 4 Sound Remedy reclocker (for TV/movie sound).
I replaced my Cox Router (cable modem/router/wifi/telephony) unit with an Arris Surfboard SB8200 cable modem (only).
I replaced my Google WiFi Mesh Network with the Netgear Orbi Pro Access Point and Satellite.
There were a number of network and network management reasons for choosing the Orbi Pro but standout ’audio-related’ features include it’s easily accessible ports (and with wider separation), stability, mounting flexibility, and standard 2.1mm by 5.5mm power input (this makes sourcing custom DC cables much easier).
The addition of an ADD-Powr Sorcer x4 power conditioner. This unit is in addition to the passive Akiko Audio Corelli already in system as well as the SR PowerCell 12 SE supply/conditioner and the PI Audio UberBUSS supply.
More information, including a link my early review of the Sorcer x4, in a thread I started:
As David is aware, I have been evaluating the Cube Nenuphar’s mounted on Townshend’s Isolation Podiums over the last week. Could a really great speaker get even better? Here are my findings:
System set-up: Cube Nenuphar’s, Mola Mola dac and amps, Fidata server, Sablon cabling, SteinMusic Harmonizers, Bybee Signal Enhancers fitted to dedicated mains consumer unit with separate spurs to each component, Ingress Engineering footers/slate platforms/air spring isolation on dedicated solid maple furniture fitted with Ingress cup and ball footers. Music: Local files stored on the Fidata server. Carmen Gomes Sings the Blues DSF live recording Arne Domnerus Jazz at the Pawn Shop DSF live recording Leonard Cohen You Want it Darker FLAC Rebecca Pigeon The Raven FLAC The Los Angeles Percussion Quartet The Year Before Yesterday FLAC Arvo Part Tabula Rasa Lithuanian Chamber Orchestra Keith Jarrett WAV
As we both know effective isolation brings big improvements in SQ. I knew from my experience with Boenicke speakers that have a Swing Base Isolation set up as an option, that isolating the speakers really helps. So many speaker manufacturers overlook this.
When I received the Cube Nenuphar’s I was really happy with the sound of them but felt that it would be good to try isolating them to hear if they could sound even better. Max Townshend’s Podiums seemed to be the obvious solution and I had seen them working very effectively at a show. I have known Max for a long while and we had a great chat about the benefits of isolation in general. The Cubes gave me the opportunity of trying out Max’s Podiums.
The Nenuphar’s as you know are a very open and natural sounding speaker already but mounted on the Podiums these attributes just increased. The live recordings just sounded more real and the space between the players was more clearly defined.
On the Los Angeles Percussion Quartet, the various bell sounds just sounded clearer, open and more natural. Bass drums on this recording sounded more real with me increased depth and timbre.
On Arvo Part, you could sense the body of the piano more.
Leonard Cohen’s voice sounded smoother, more open, less overblown but with increased texture.
Both live recordings really opened up further and sounded more live.
In summary: a worthwhile upgrade that brings the following improvements from my listening notes
I purchased the pair of white Nenuphar demoed at AXPONA.......having never seen or heard them. I trusted my gut and the return policy. I drove them with a 2A3 and with 2v input (CD) it was sublime. But I quickly discovered that my anemic phono stage signal was not cutting it with the 92db Nenuphar. I purchased a line/phono stage and ran square into HUM HELL. But only on phono, the CD player was better than ever. Several weeks later having tried every remedy known to man, including sending the new unit back for diagnostics......I gave up. The generous dealer took the linestage back for refund and I decided to change paradigms. I ordered a SIT 3 from Reno HiFi where they are still listed as available btw. I purchased Ed Schilling’s *The Truth* no gain buffered linestage. I found a used Manley Chinook in perfect condition. The SIT 3 is currently burning in. Schilling says The Truth doesnt need to. Simply enough I have reached the mountain top. The sound defies superlatives. With the right recording of course the 2A3 brought the musicians into my room. Beautiful and delicate yet dense imaging at the same time. Sometimes the Nenuphar created a forty foot wide stage in a 13’ wide room. Then the SIT 3. They are here bursts out into you are there with uncanny realism. I wish everyone equal joy with your systems. I’ve stumbled onto the grail. Nelson Pass, Ed Schilling....and the guys at Cube.......are wizards.
David_ten..... Thank you sir and I’m happy for you! As we know it’s not just finding the right piece but getting it to work in synergistic harmony with the other pieces and room. I was lucky enough to be able to put this system together but maybe more lucky in that my listening room works without a lot of intervention. It’s 15’ x 13’ with a 9’ symmetric but odd shaped ceiling. The front of the Nenuphar are 60" from the front wall, 7’ center to center. Listening position, ears 7’ from each cone. Toed in a bit, but aimed behind me, off each shoulder. I experimented extensively. Srajan’s advice regarding these speakers toe in proved true. It’s a largish near field setup but works very well. I was just listening to my new MA records LP of Nima Ben David’s "Resonance". I think it must be the among the most beautiful recordings I’ve ever heard. She plays the viola de gamba. A Renaissance pre cello instrument with 6 or 7 strings that has serious bass range.
I've revised and updated my initial first draft on the Synergistic Research Galileo PowerCell SX power conditioner and SRX power cable, hopefully making it an easier and cleaner read. I'll revisit and continue editing later today.
The addition of the SR power conditioner and the power cable has enhanced and increased the perceived size of the Nenuphar's. They now present like much larger speakers. I've explained this point within the review.
The preceding post was deleted for duplication reasons.
Hi guys; i own nenuphar since 5 months and they are superb. system comsists of kassandra ref2 dac+ Server ( coming soon)+ n10 aurender ( a friend loan)+mbl c51 integ. i have few questions: do these drivers needs much time for burn in? I changed 2 drivers due to a small issue on one of the drivers( gregorz sent them to me free );and i am burning them with min volume since a week and a half now and they don t seem to open up yet ! One more question; the mbl is here only temporarily,and my final integ will be the aries cerat genus set integrated, but since i can t afford it now, and since i have a top pass lab preamp clone here , i was thinking to start with either x25 or sit 3, may be audio mirror set monos also. what are your thoughts? thks
The drivers definitely get better with more playtime and settling as David I’m sure will confirm.
We are getting great synergy with the Bakoon 13R amp, highly recommended. I also recommend the speakers being placed on a well designed isolation device, like Townshend Podiums, see my previous post.
I have just added the Puritan PSM156 mains purifier into our system, resulting in a nice uptick in overall system performance. So three Blue Moon Award components working well together. Srajan knows his stuff. 😁
Regarding the new driver break in, I'd check with Cube to see if they ran those drivers prior to shipping to you...as that might be a factor.
They should sound good enough as you have a week and a half on them. You could try higher volumes and a break in specific disc / tracks?
Here is a response I sent to @toetapaudio on my personal experience with break in:
"....Cube, if memory serves me, felt a few hours of runtime would be sufficient.
Jon Ver Halen, the US importer, put it at 40 hours or so.
Based on my experience, I peg it at about 150 hours before the Nenuphar start coming into their own. They definitely started sounding better after Jon's recommendation of 40+ hours. So take 40 as a minimum, minimum...with 150 as my personally recommended minimum.
For 'full' break-in around 500 hours for musical beauty, wonder and engagement.
An industry person I respect and who has significant experience tuning analog gear, felt 1000 hours would be needed. I realize 'hours' of burn-in are a hot topic with folks falling on either side of the divide. I took his feedback and pushed for that 1K mark, after which I consider break in to be complete. However, If I were advising, I'd stick to the 500 hours with folks generally being happy with the results post 200 hours."
Joined the cube audio club recently with a nenuphar. Mind blown! One thing of significant importance: The nenuphar needs the RIGHT amp to show its true colours and abilities. I was replacing both amp and speaker (had a diablo 300 with kef ref 5s). The gryphon was still not sold when nenuphars arrived. I listened with it for a week or so, being very careful with volume. The sound was OK. I thought, its break in, speaker will open up slowly. Then tried an old krell integrated. Seems cause it had a lower damping factor, sound started flowing with more ease. Then, my LM845 premium SET amp arrived! Words can't even describe the amount of change is speaker character. Opened up, singing with ultimate ease. Dymamics exploded, literally. Better everything. Bass changed a lot, it is so deep, fast and extended. Vs the diablo, the sound was out of control and felt congested somehow. Word of advice, if you are going for a cube, you must choose your amp carefully to get the maximum of it. Its a speaker to die for with the right amplification!
Hi sale84, Your situation is totally expected and predictable. The designer/builder has clearly stated the Cube Audio Nenuphar is specifically meant to be used with amplifiers possessing 1 little or no NFB 2 Relatively high output impedance 3 low damping factor (DF)
The special single driver has a very powerful magnet/motor assembly and is very well damped and controlled. An amplifier that utilizes high levels of NFB which results in very low output impedance and high damping factor is exactly what you need to avoid.
It is no surprise the superb Nenuphar speaker sounds magnificent with a high quality SET amplifier (Most often zero NFB) such as your Line Magnetic 845 or David_ten’s teriffic 2A3 SET mono blocks. High NFB amplifiers (which yields very low output impedance) are detrimental. IMO the Nenuphar is worth every penny based on feedback I’ve received. BTW solid state amplification are fine as long as they adhere to the designer’s recommendation/ guidelines. Charles
Saleh84, Your Gryphon is an excellent amplifier "with the right speaker". Some speakers demand amplifiers with high current delivery with lower output impedance due to low and difficult to drive load characteristics and often steep phase angles. The Nenuphar is the antithesis of this type of speaker. Your LM 845 wouldn’t be a good choice with these current hungry speakers. I much prefer your LM /Nenuphar approach. Charles
I agree, the gryphon diablo is a great amplifier. And i believe the bigger gryphons are some of the best amps - the house sound of gryphon is excellent. However I think it was my choice of speaker being the KEF ref 5s which was the wrong move, they need a softer presentation amplifier probably, and in all honesty as much as i tried to make that combo work, it still did not sound right, certainly not a musical/emotion inducing sound but rather mechanical. It had a district colouration as well. If I had a B&W 802 D3 for example, probably I would have been ok with the diablo and kept things as is. I could have travelled that route, but hearing the nenuphar's over and over again at my friend's, i couldn't resist anymore, also i was craving to get back to tubes - i started with a tube headphone amplifier, changed to SS only when i moved to speakers camp. The nenuphar was made for tubes, so all was good!
The next step for me is getting a pair of the newly announced cube audio sub 12. I always wanted to experience stereo subwoofers, even with the KEF. I was about to buy a pair of REL S/812, then came to know about the cube offering. I opted for it hoping for a better integration, hope that i made the right choice. Will keep you guys posted how it goes!
@kalali, pricey? Not considering the performance compared with other speakers in the same price group. The Cube Mini Nenuphar’s retail for £10,250 in the U.K.
I have replaced the front stock spikes and the rear rubber bumpers with brass spikes, as a first-step isolation effort.
My goal is to maintain the factory height from the floor and the factory angle - front to rear. [Note: the Nenuphar speakers are bottom ported]
I went with Eden Sound's Solid Brass Spike (extra large) for the front with it's matching Point Receiver (extra large) and the Solid Brass Hemi-Spike (extra large) for the rear.
Immediate performance / sound quality differences and upsides. I will report more later.
I'm not surprised that stepping up to a higher quality better engineered brass spike would be noticeable. Better vibration/resonance management is a worthwhile pursuit. Particularly a speaker the high caliber of the Nenuphar will easily reveal the differences.
Anyone have a detailed comparison between the mini and the full size (i.e. the 8" neo vs the 10" neo ?). Obviously a little less on the lows but what else is similar/different ?
If I can get away with 90% of the bass for a bit cheaper I'd lean towards the mini, the big guy is just a bit out of my budget right now.
Hi toetapaudio, Other than presumably lower frequency region differences, have you heard other sonic distinctions between the 8" and 10" Cube Audio drivers in your showroom system? Charles
The soundscape is larger with the Nenuphar’s, as one might expect. The Mini Nenuphar’s would be the choice for medium to smaller spaces and I can see this being the preferred choice here in the U.K.
The sound qualities are similar, both being very open, the feeling of a directness between you and the music, a calmness that allows one to get absorbed into the music. I feel that transients are perhaps dealt with a little better with the Mini, perhaps due to a lower moving mass.
The cabinet designs are similar being TQWT, the Mini cabinet dimensions being smaller. In theory the 10 inch version should produce a lower bass end but in our medium sized listening room I certainly have nor felt I’m missing much if any bass extension.
Due to the revealing nature of these speakers, as has been said by you and others, amp matching is very critical. Don’t assume though that these speakers are for SET’s only. There are some SS amps that clearly work extremely well with them. My own experience with the Bakoon 13R, echoes the praise that Srajan of Six Moons has mentioned about this combination. There are other SS amps that might be compatible as well, like First Watt, Trilogy and possibly Grandinote.
Toetapaudio, Thanks for your thorough characterization of these two what I believe are spectacular speakers. I really think that these Cube Audio speakers are cut from a different cloth compared to other single driver wide band speakers. I don't doubt that they sound splendid with transistor amplifiers that avoid over use of NFB and unnecessary damping factor levels. Srajan and Cube Audio have clearly emphasize this point. Charles
I am about to join the Nenuphar circle: on order with Jon at RefinedAudio to arrive in a couple of weeks. I actually made this decision before finding this thread, but it's contents have corroborated what I have read elsewhere and provided helpful hints re set up. Thanks.
I will be driving the Nenuphars with a Linear Tube Audio Ultralinear amp, a 20 watt per channel Berning ZOTL with 1.6 ohm out put impedance--a key number in determining capability. Gregorz assures me it will be a good fit--in fact, he mentioned he is working on his own design of an OTL amp.
After break in, I'll come back and give you impressions.
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