Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

Charles,

Yes, your memory serves you well.  Straight up the VR L2i-SE was a step above every other pre+amp combo I'd tried with the Nenuphars. Adding the resistors improved the bass and added more presence and air.  As so often the case in this hobby, you can't imagine the improvement until you hear it.

Hi Stephen,
Yes I recall you are using a resistor (Further improvement). Prior to that weren’t you experiencing very good SQ results with the stock Vinnie Rossi amplifier/Nenuphars?
Charles

charles1dad  
Just a reminder that I use 1 ohm resistors per VR's advice between L2i-SE and positive speaker cable to lower damping factor to 2 which seems to be right in the Nenuphar's sweet spot.  And how sweet it is.

@paullb,
Good question.
Stephendunn uses the Vinnie Rossi integrated amplifier which is  low output impedance and thus relatively high damping factor.  He has achieved outstanding results. 

david_ten uses the Found Music 2A3 SET which has a high output impedance and thus a low damping factor.  He gets outstanding results driving the Nenuphars. The designer of the Nenuphar is pretty adamant in regard to what type of amplifiers he had in mind during development. 

My takeaway is there are certainly additional factors involved that  ultimately determine the degree of sucess of an amplifier paired with this speaker. 
Charles 

Ricardo,
Given your experience with the Dynaudio, Devore and Magico speakers you have a very solid reference point of high quality competitors.  The Nenuphar Mini is so different philosophically and design I'm very interested in your take on it once you've had the opportunity to hear it.
Charles 

I've been following this thread for some time and think it's interesting and folks are quite helpful and informative. Hope you don't mind a couple of questions:
1) if the Cube driver was designed specifically for amps with low damping factor, why would they work well on the Bakoon 13r and selected other solid-state amps. They must have a significantly higher damping factor than most tube & First Watt, etc. offerings.
2) as anybody heard the Camerton Binom-1 speaker with its unique single driver? Six moons gave it quite the review. Doesn't seem to be any distribution in the US. I also noticed that the driver was recently revised, not sure if it's showing up yet and any products. 

Good to know and thanks for the report as I value good bass highly in my book. Dynaudios are known for good bass and that is one of my fears in changing speakers.  Other speakers that I heard lately were the Devores O96 and the Magicos A3. Both very good speakers but never made me want to change. I was suspecting the Nenuphars mini would be an excellent choice. Although bass is very important for me I'd be happy with mid 30hz in room response. 

Ricardo,  Your room may be too small for the "10" Nenuphar BECAUSE of the Bass. My room is similar size as yours and I was told to get the Nenuphar Mini's which have the "8".

Very interesting to hear the the Nenuphars have managed to do what most us are skeptical of, the full frequency range reproduction by one driver. It has to bee a special presentation to say the least. Over the years listening and owning many different speakers and drivers I’ve come to realize am silk dome tweeter guy. I can never stand longer periods of listening of other tweeter technology’s. The other day I was able to listen to the new dynaudio confidence 20 and the esotar 3. Frankly I didn’t like the setup at dealer. They had some tube monos based on kt88s and it just couldn’t make it with the bass. Dynaudio have optimized their new models to be a easier load but they still do require some power. I loved the midrange and highs but that was it. I couldn’t detect superiority on much else being away from my critical room. I also heard the new sonus Faber Olympics. They had a warmer and a bit forward sound out of my taste. I much preferred the balanced , neutral and still natural dynaudio. So the Nenuphars seems to me like a great option to an all tube system. Being someone who doesn’t like complex systems and much prefer simplicity and short path to signal, no subwoofer its a must for me. The questions I have would be, how good are the high frequency? Describe if possible. How good is bass on a medium room say 14 x 18 ? Is it deep and able to energize it ? At what volumes? Do they play fast and accurately when demanded? Do they present a neutral and balanced sound or lean towards other spectrums? I appreciate if owners report in with valuable insight of these marvels of modern sound reproduction.

Horning are pretty good but like Cube more, personally. No cross over makes a huge difference, it’s just a very difficult art to get the drivers to work over a wide bandwidth. Cube cracked it.

Cal,
Yes KeithR has quite the extensive listening, ownership and auditioning history. On WBF there’s a core of about 12 to 15 people who contribute roughly 75- 80% of the posts and content. However they collectively have vast experience and  are consistently interesting to read. Morricab, bonzo 75, spiritofmusic, etc.

They can differ significantly in opinion from one another but the courteous mutual respect and appreciation never wavers. I admire that about them. Trolling isn’t nearly as pervasive on WBF as this site. There was a time when Audiogon had quite similar decorum.
Charles

Wish it was easier to hear everything...

I read a number of pages of this thread (starting from the end), and was getting very jealous at all of his listening experiences: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/keithrs-dream-speaker-search.27069/

Hi cal,
Yes, that’d be an ideal option to have. Agree, both excellent ( Cube Audio/Coincident ) but quite different head units /monitors. I read the WBF link and and related thread on reasonable sized horn speakers for modest room dimensions.
Once a high quality level of speakers is reached everyone has their particular favorite brand. Some mentioned were,
Wolf Von Lang
Viking Audio
Odeon Audio
Diesis Audio
Tobias Sound Systems
Horning Audio

I would bet each one is excellent and will appeal to different tastes. So truly impossible to say one is clearly better than the rest.
Without question Cube Audio could easily be added to this list. Not a horn speaker but one that’s suited to similar amplifier requirements.
It just depends on what sonic characteristics one is pursuing.

They will all appeal to those listeners who are in the camp of high quality lower power amplifiers paired with high quality easily driven speakers..
Charles

@charles1dad Definitely.  Agreed.  And it's clear from that thread that even the person who changed to WvLs still loved the Nenuphars.  

Interesting thing about my possible venture to build Cube Audio based head units for my Coincident PREs is that I could switch back and forth between two high quality presentations by just swapping out the head units (and changing what amps the bass cabs are connected to).

Reading the WBF thread comments I don't doubt that the Wolf Von Lang SON speaker is highly impressive. I am not surprised that some listeners will prefer it to the Nenuphar. It could be better than the Nenuphar in some respects to some listeners. No doubt though that the converse is true. What single audio product is chosen by everyone and scores 10 Of 10 in every sonic parameter and lacks any critical dissenters? 

I would accept  both are quite excellent with their own sets of strengths and relative shortcomings. I've read enough comments the last 2 years to conclude  that the Nenuphars are very capable with a very broad spectrum of music genres. I don't believe that there's an existing speaker that presents every genre of music with equal aplomb at a sublime level. This isn't realistic.
Charles 

Great information folks.  And super useful to see the list @david_ten. 

Thanks.

@cal3713 Here are some of the ("electronica") artists / music I have had in rotation recently:

The Avener; Deadmau5; Egyptrixx; Armin van Buuren; Biosphere; Kraftwerk; Nightmares on Wax; The Orb; Primal Scream; Amon Tobin; Goldfrapp; Massive Attack; Robert Miles; Moby; etc.

No "weakness" to these ears. Pretty amazing, actually.

Hi folks, wondering if anyone with these Cube drivers listens to rock (e.g., Tool) or heavy electronica?

Just back from vacation. I need to catch up on the thread. : )

Cube/Bakoon mighty impressive bite and slam imo.

Hi cal, a demo listening to your own collection of music is the best way forward if you can arrange.  

Mine are on order. I mainly listen to Classic Rock and investigated these before purchasing. I was assured there wouldnt be any issues by multiple people. Im not a Bass Head so Im not looking for that in a speaker.  Dont know TOOL's music but its probably MUCH more bombastic than what I listen to. I'll be sure to let people know down the road what I think of them with my music/room/amp choices etc  Ive got at least a dozen amps so something has to work!!

Hi folks, wondering if anyone with these Cube drivers listens to rock (e.g., Tool) or heavy electronica? 

I was reading a WBF thread where people pointed that out as a potential weakness... while still loving the speakers.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/wills-horn-finalists.28945/page-7

Fun descriptions. Thanks for the elaboration

So been listening for a while today. Maybe this is a better way of describing the sound. With the Canary amp the sound is like peering into a deep funnel. It sucks you in and is very detailed and the tonality is so accurate and lifelike. It can be startling. The "funnel" starts at the plane of the speakers and descends back into the wall. It feels like falling into a blackhole.

With other amps I've had, the sound floats outward and around you. You feel as though you are in the music, not falling into it. I think this is why the current amp sounds "polite" to me or lacks a little punch. The sound seems a bit further way and even though its amazing, its not as tactile as some other amps I've enjoyed. A good example is the track Hello Night on  Zoë Keating's album Into the Trees. The very beginning of the track starts with sounds that quickly appear and disappear. With the Canary the sounds appear to be floating out ahead of you at various distances. With some other tube amps I've had (Primaluna, Line Magnetic, Linear Tube Audio) the sounds floated all around and almost behind you. The rest of the track, with the Canary, is tonally so accurate and powerful it is startling. With this amp it sounds like you're listening in an anechoic chamber because there's no reverb or haziness, but nothing is harsh or out of place. The detail of the bow's running across the strings is almost tangible. With the other amps you get a smoother sound here, but it is all over you like you're in a cloud of music. Wow, just a totally different presentation I guess, but maybe the way the Canary presents the music is why I'm feeling a slight lack of punch or bite.

@ abd,
Congratulations on acquiring the Nenuphar Mini speakers. Based on your listening impressions it seems with exception of one specific sonic parameter (Bite and slam) the sound quality is outstanding! Trying some other amplifiers for comparison is an excellent idea.

Based on your description with use of the Canary M 90 300b push pull it strikes me that you are 95% there as it is. It leads me to wonder if trying different tubes (300b and/or 6SN7) or power cable/interconnects might rectify the "bite and slam" concern. Which as you described is just a "touch" short.

Something to think about because otherwise the Canary M 90 +Nenuphar pairing appears to be an exceptionally good pairing (Unless there’s something I’m missing). You used the terms  "sublime"  "surreal" "fantastic" and that’s very telling in my opinion. The positive attributes you have noted are hard for many to achieve.
Charles

@ricardoosusa Your system sounds like something straight out of what Daedalus would have put together.  Have you looked at their line of real wood speakers?

@tkukielk I think its a great idea to have Jim Salk build the cabinets. I own 2 pairs of Salks and the build quality is first rate. I also think the oiled walnut finish on the Nenuphar Mini's is also outstanding. I've had my mini's for a little over a month now. These are special speakers. I'm not a good audiophile in the sense that I tend to make a bunch of changes in a relatively short time (I've also changed DACs, power cables, speaker cables, power conditioning, and messed with different tubes), but something really good has been happening the past couple weeks of listening. The speakers are opening up and the inner detail and depth is fantastic. Bass keeps getting better, but I'm still thinking my amp is just maybe a bit too polite. It's the Canary M90 (300b push pull). It sounds sublime in terms of that inner detail and micro harmonics. Voices are surreal. I would say it has a very creamy, smooth, layered sound. What I feel I'm missing is a touch of bite or slam, but it has plenty of power and can play extremely loud without strain. I also feel like the music is presented more in a deep tunnel of sound, which can definitely suck you in. I think it's a very refined sound, and maybe I'm not as refined as I thought :/  I'm going to try some different amps before making any more changes and see where I get. Maybe I will stay put after trying some different options, we'll see. I will say, after a week without power and staying in 4 different hotels in the past 6 nights it's wonderful to be back in my house listening to my system this morning -- I am very grateful for that and it is a privilege.

@ricardoosusa Please do report back if you take the plunge.  I'd love to read about the experience of comparing Dynaudio and Cube Audio.  Such different approaches, it would be very informative.

Hi everyone, I've been following this thread closely for a while now.  So much interesting information. My curiosity about the Nenuphars has been though to control after reading all experiences here.  I want to spend some quality time listening and experimenting with them.  I've been a fan of dynamic speakers for a long time and keep hearing about efficient full range and their optimal matching with tubes wich I consider essential for my taste also. My last speakers have been Dynaudio and for most of the time it's been a great experience and a joy to live with. They have been doing all the good things for the longest time now but the Cubes just keeps popping up in my dreams.  My system is pretty basic and straightforward, it  consists of a HD plex fanless computer withthe goodies, a lampizator big 7 dac and a LTA 40i integrated amp. Although the system isn't totaly focused on the powerful side it can handle a good size speaker no problem but I can only imagine going the eficient and simple path root.  Though decisions.  .

If you are interested in Nenuphars but you don't think you can afford them, there is an alternative approach, which I took: I purchased just the F10 Neo drivers and had the cabinets built in the US. More details in this thread:
https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2113641

@stephendunn  Did you experiment?

I’ve also have been thinking about your taking the Nenuphars off the Townshend Podiums and putting them back on the floor.

@stephendunn Stephen, good and an important question. NO, regarding:

Do you think the not subtle improvements you heard were partly attributable to lowering driver to a plane closer or exactly ear height?

Suspended hardwood (oak). Seriously suspended as our homes in this part of Louisiana need to be a few feet above the ground. In other words, there is no basement below. There is no carpeting; I have a wool throw / area rug (5’/9’) between the speakers which extends to my seating position.

is your floor carpeted, wood or other?

David_ten. Thanks for posting that link.  I will keep you posted if I decide to try the Lanlai 2A3–which I probably will. 
I’ve also have been thinking about your taking the Nenuphars off the Townshend Podiums and putting them back on the floor. Do you think the not subtle improvements you heard were partly attributable to lowering driver to a plane closer or exactly ear height?  And—pardon if you’ve mentioned this before—is your floor carpeted, wood or other?

Also appreciate your gentle shepherding to keep this thread on track and still informative to its followers. 

David,
Thanks for the link posting. Srajan Ebaen really loves the Elrog 300b and as a former owner I understand why. It’s interesting that an upstart 2A3 impressed Srajan to such a degree. This Lanlai 2A3 is roughly 1/3 The price of the esteemed Elrog..
Charles

@stephendunn  This review may be of interest to you as Srajan Ebaen mentions going forward with the Linlai 2A3 for his VR linestage. 

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/linlai2/

@charles1dad  I have emailed Matej requesting information on the amplifier(s) used, etc. I'll post, should I hear from him.

Since we are all wondering about the amps, here is what was communicated in the review:

"Cube Audio Nenuphar was designed from the ground up to provide the best possible matching partner for a low power Class A (minimum 3 watts) tube-based and solid-state amplifiers. For tube amplifiers, Cube Audio recommends such designs based on 2A3, Px4, 45 tubes. I can see many of SET connoisseurs and afficionados' eyes illuminating."

I also noticed the absence of identifying associated amplifiers and found that odd given the unique matching considerations for the Nenuphars.  Still overall a good review as I believe the reviewer captured the essence of these exceptionally  special speakers. 

I feel that Srajan Ebaen's 6 Moons review of the Cube Audio Nenuphar is the most compehensive.
1 In depth technical description with ample commentary from the designer/builder. 
2 Effective use of metaphors and analogies (IMHO, I know some don't like his verbose writing style) in his very  detailed subjective listening impressions. 
3 Taking the the time to use multiple/different amplifiers paired with the Nenuphars and then clearly describing each separate pairing. 
4. Comparing the sonic character of the Nenuphars with other familiar speakers he holds  in  high regard in his listening room and review audio system. 
Charles 

@cal3713   Yes and remarkably consistent findings.

@stephendunn  I looked as well. Unfortunately, not. His audio rack does offer clues. : )

Was there mention of associated equipment used in Isak’s review and I just missed it?

Have yet to see a bad one!  Thanks @david_ten 

Matej Isak / Mono and Stereo review of the Cube Audio Nenuphars:

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2021/01/cube-audio-nenuphar-speakers-review.html

riaa:  Which color/finish did you go with for your Nenuphar Minis and what is the current turnaround time for a custom color? Thanks.

I believe the point has been made, specific to the brand, as well as generally to many brands. Can we move on? Thanks.

The margins for a dealer vary quite considerably depending on the brand. The margin for Bakoon is so slim that I wouldn’t consider discounting even if I was allowed. There are many products that have over inflated prices, Bakoon isn’t one of them. At £6k for an integrated amp it punches way above its price point in both sound quality and modern design. 

@riaa I'm considering you my new connection. Thanks!

@ag3_,
Miraculously this thread has avoided agitating trolls, keyboard warriors and rude and disrespectful behavior, what a welcome relief.
The LTA Ultra Linear compared to the Bakoon 13R is very interesting as there’re such distinct differences between them. It’d be fun and informative to hear them driving your Tannoys or the Nenuphars. As this thread has substantiated,  there are numerous good quality amplifiers to consider pairing with the Nenuphars.
Charles

Absolutely. Will do. This is the best thread on agon. Might as well contribute here ! 

For reference I've got the LTA Ultra Linear right now powering some Tannoy Eaton speakers (dual concentric). From the sounds of it in this thread I think it's safe to say the UL is similar to the FW SIT variety (in the ball park). A tube change to some GE model tubes has made this amp exceptional

@ag3,
If you do purchase a Bakoon 13R  amplifier and have the time (And inclination) would you post your listening impressions? I believe there are folks on this thread who’d be very interested.
Charles

As someone who is casually looking for a Bakoon 13r - the resale market is no way a 50% drop. I've seen on average about 1k off from 6k MSRP which is a pretty standard discount in terms of a listing price.

In terms of dealers can't speak to that.

If I purchase a unit new it will likely be through Bakoon themselves.