I see ethics and integrity is not a strong suit for many here.
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I'm using neardost odin 2 power cables and they are by far the best of many power cables I've used.
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Are these cables violating a patent or are they just knockoffs of a non patented design and only violating copyright law rather than copyright and patent law?
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I bought a pair of N------ Odin Gold RCA interconnects from Ali Express. Beautifully made. When I first connected them (backwards according to the direction arrows on the bottom of the wood blocks), they were big, bold, a little rounded and slightly soft on top - but enjoyable to listen to.
Then I put them in the "correct" orientation and they were more detailed with less prominent (though detailed) bass. Very good also. I am going to leave them this way for a while; though it is tempting to listen in the "wrong" direction.
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OK I now have a few of these Neardost Odin 2 power cables incoming. I will put them up against real Nordost Heimdall 2 power cables, head to head.
If they can compete evenly that would be something. But the fake Odins are still going to have much higher current capability due to larger wire gauge, even if everything else is inferior, so that will probably advantage the bass over the Heimdall 2. I will discount that in the comparison.
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That's interesting carpathian. I haven't followed him since he left audiogon, but yes, when he was here he had a very distinct style of writing.
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Even though as soon as I hit play my Neardost Odin 2 speaker cables trounced the well known/reviewed and expensive cables that I had for about 2 years; last night (about a week since inserting) I played Dianna Krall ALL FOR yOU (Impulse), I haven't listened to any of her discs since in quite a while (too many CDs, so little time), The sound was complete and intimate, I felt as though I had been transported to the venue.
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Interesting. Also interesting -to me, anyway- from what little of him I read on the other forum was his persona and writing style were polar opposites as to his style and persona here. No feeding the chickens, dog dancing around the sombrero, etc.
Clear, concise, intelligent writing.
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He got suspended here, went to WhatsBestForum. A few weeks ago he went off repeatedly on a thread over there, was suspended for three days as a warning and now gone
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I believe he left for another forum (still oldhvymec) over there.
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@roxy54
You mentioned oldhvymec, and it got me to wondering, what happened to him? I hope the chickens didn’t get him!
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There was a lot of good information in this thread that was deleted. Maybe just delete the troll posts and people angrily fighting, but keep the rest?
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Reverse engineering has been going on entire human existence. Unless cable companies have patents on design and/or proprietary parts used in that cable's design there are no laws being broken.
If these are indeed exact copies of well known cable companies, gives one very good idea of actual manufacturing costs of those cables. I generally build my own power cables these day, following recipes generously shared by individuals seeking to promote audio pleasure rather than profit.
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I should mention, Ali-E also has many other well known cable copies, AND, no-name at even cheaper prices
Also many are returnable, though it takes ~ 3 weeks to get to the Florida, so return at least as long on purchasers dime and the time to process, which is why I started with the Odin 2 coax cable, and was shocked compared to the Pangea Premier XL which is a darn good cable. Then slowly with Odin PC and XLR, the more PCs, and finally the speaker cable, which is not the same configuration as Nordosts (round instead of ribbon), but is amazing
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Well said harpo75. No need to feel sorry for these guys. I’m certain that they exaggerate the years that they spend on "research" by a factor of five, and these cables are not being purchased by their demographic.
Thanks to the moderators for reinstating this thread, minus most of the previous content. I've been here since '98 and I've never seen that before!
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Good point. It would be nice if they advertised that way. Although on some cables I’m not all together sure they are not the real thing, made with a “run” of the real cable, at the same factory. Just not “run” for the brand name company.
It is crazy the prices these companies are charging. I know there is R&D, advertising, supporting they’re lifestyles, etc. But $2K, $5K, $10K or even $100K for a 1 meter pair of cables! Come on. I remember one advertising executive at a audio company I worked at many years ago said “we have to charge more to show we’re the best”. Well I love the audio biz and I really love listening to music but I never made the big bucks. So I have to buy what I can afford.
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Seems like the long thread on this subject has been taken down.
I don’t mind using knock-offs, and in this particular field, I don’t mind using counterfeits. I use a pair of knock-offs of Kimber 12TC speaker cables. They are not advertised as Kimber, but appear to be made in about the very same way. I would not mind, nor should anyone, if the maker advertised them as "Compare to Kimber." After all, Walmart advertises their generic aspirin product as "Compare to Bayer" or some such thing.
I have a fake pair of "Nordost Odin 2 XLR cables" on the way from China. Several people have written of their happiness with these cables, here and elsewhere. These are counterfeits. However, given that Nordost charges the price of a small house or a large car for a pair with that name, I’m not losing any sleep over it. Yet I would prefer if the Chinese makers sold them unmarked and advertised as "Compare to Nordost Odin 2."
The moderators may take these threads down from time to time. However, given how the domestic cable manufacturers have treated us over the decades, we will keep on buying from China. For there, the prices come reasonably close to the costs of manufacture of these relatively simple products.
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Here’s a little story for you. I worked at a very high end audio equipment manufacturer for many years. The owner decided he might want to release their own cables to sell with their systems. Good idea of course. The company’s CD player’s were already being turn-keyed in Hong Kong. Designed, built and packaged there with our name. So while over seas he visited a large cable manufacturer. They sat down and discussed what kind of cables he wanted. The manufacturer pulls out a big book with samples and shows him all the cables they already manufacture for various well known high end companies (I won’t say the names but you know them all) and tells him they can make the same thing with maybe a different color or whatever and says “we can put your name on any of them”. This is the way much of this stuff works with the fakes. Not all of course. Some is pure crap! But some is made on the identical machines with identical materials and sold to whoever will pay for it. Maybe they put different connectors on it or maybe identical ones. It is true the soldering/weld may not be the same if a company just buys the wire and does their own thing, or it may be the identical cable made in the same factory as the name brand with identical materials. That’s the problem with counterfeits is you don’t know what your getting until you get it. No box. No paperwork. Just the cables.
I have purchased several counterfeit cables to try out and have been completely happy with them over the years. Yes I have a “champagne taste on a beer budget”. I have purchased many high end cables directly from the manufacturer’s for 50% off when I worked in the industry. So yes I have a variety of cables that are the real thing lying around from some great companies. Some of the top of the line Audioquest, Cardas, Kimber Silver, etc. I have also purchased some fake Audioquest and Furutech cables that have amazed me with their quality. Right now I’m running all Furutech PCOCC (or OHNO) speaker and interconnects and getting some of the best, most balanced sound I have ever had and it was cheap.
So are these identical in every way? I don’t know for sure but the sound quality is amazing! Can you get a crap counterfeit? For sure, yes.
As someone said you roll the dice.
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"It is quite disconcerting that the Chinese Cables are being counterfeited."
That sentence is really funny. By the way, the portal that you're speaking about IS Chinese. You also need to consider that Nordost's design is built upon parts of research by many people over many years as well. They didn't invent high quality cables or the materials that they're made from.
One idea is derived from another, that's the way civilization works, and if you want to call that stealing and robbing, then to a certain extent all cable manufacturers are guilty of stealing.
Finally, every purchase is a "roll of the dice" as you note, but for a bit over a hundred dollars, it wasn't much of a gamble, and the build quality is very impressive as well as the sound.
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It is quite disconcerting that the Chinese Cables are being counterfeited.
To have a design that has been produced by using ones own education or collaborative idea sharing on the subject of a Cable Type and the design concepts then supported by in depth R&D to the point of a Cable Design being produced.
To have a group of individuals with an 'easy profit making venture' in mind, steal/rob the ideas of others and produce a version of an item, that is a much lesser design, that is on offer as an alternative choice and presents a 'real roll of the dice scenario' for an individual to acquire a product that is by chance, possibly ? an equivalent function.
For the producer to see this happening, as the originator of the design concepts being offered, it can only be an upset to them.
The reality is that when a part is bought from a Portal that allows imports from Chinese Manufacturers, the parts being selected will be produced from design ideas that were not borne in house by the producer, the design for the parts, will mostly be for the mimicking the aesthetic of other more successful brands items.
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