I thought it was time we had a pro- Class D thread. There's plenty of threads about comparisons, or detractors of Class D.
That's fine, you don't have to like Class D amps, and if you don't please go participate on one of those threads.
For those of us who are very happy and excited about having musical, capable amps that we can afford to keep on 24/7 and don't require large spaces to put them in, this thread is for you.
I don't know if you were addressing your comments to me or not. I have a AT523NC 3-channel Amplifier (200W RMS per channel). I only use it to power my center and rear channels in a 5.1 surround sound system. I simply love it. It's so much better than the Marantz SR5011 and the Marantz MM7055. It's provides more than enough power to all channels. It's very detailed and a relatively small amplifier.
I have owned three class D amps. I now own a ATI 523 and a 528. These will be used in a dedicated Atmos system. They are now being used in a dedicated theater. That has been well treated. Over the last 4 years I have owned Parsound Halo a23 and A5 2nd, Krell Chorus a Theta Dreadnaught D and these two. I can say without reservation that the class D amps are different sounding. I will add class D is simply incredible.
To me the class D amps seem to float the sounds out of my speakers. The music never seems to come from the speakers themselves. But comes from out of thin air.
I think they are incredible sounding. The Theta Dreadnaught D does use nc1200 modules on all channels. The ATI uses nc 500 and each different channel figuration has different size power supplies, all linear supplies.
To the person above with the three channel 523, have you tried this to run your front three channels as I am doing? If not give it a try. It really is an awesome sounding amp. You might be pleased. I know I am
I have to say that going to Class D did not improve imaging. I found the A23’s in my set up to be great imaging amps. Maybe because I ran them as dual mono? I used them in a 4.1 channel setup, so one amp was L /LS and the other R/RS.
I have always gotten that sense of music coming out of nowhere with these speakers, whether it was class A/AB or D. As I recall, the one technical area where the Parasound stereo amps are a little weak are in the crosstalk spec.
I am very happy you are having such a great experience with a multi-channel amp though, I need to run 5 channels, and having a single unit would make things easier. :)
rhale64, I'm a 2-channel person that found a way to incorporate surround sound without degrading my 2-channel. I use a Jeff Rowland 625 S2 amplifier for my front speakers. Even if the ATI sounds as good as the 625 S2, I would degrade the sound going from a dedicated 2-channel preamp to a AV preamp.
@erik_squires Great thread, a godsend because I am in the market for another amp. This thread has given me a list of brands to consider.
@kdude66 Good to hear your comments. I have a J2 and was considering an XA-30.8. So as you can see, your thoughts on your move to Class D was most helpful. If I take the plunge, I'll chime in with what I bought and my thoughts. Questions for me re my set-up, let me know.
I came back from the LAX Audio Show and all I can say is that I went to hear the ELAC Adante speakers (which I will get) and also fell for the Audio Alchemy (class D) electronics.
Just one (okay, two) listens to the ELAC Adante speakers backed by the Audio Alchemy electronics and I'm sold on class D. I went to the LAX Audio Show just for the ELAC speakers but now I'm sold on class D as well. Hell, I might even start streaming and dump my SACD player.
I must say, AA makes some of the very best looking gear. :) Also, there are a number of new (< 5years) dacs which sound outstanding at any resolution, and make Hi-Res and SACD less important to me.
Thanks @mdeblanc glad you found a good resource. Let us know what you listen to and what you end up buying.
Great thread! Thanks to all for sharing :) I have to say something now...................
I use Crown XLS amp with my pair of Magnepan 1.7i. I read online about Crown amps and maggies, and took the plunge. I am really happy with the sound. It has been little bit over a year I have this system primarily for 2.1 channel music listening. So far I have resisted the urge to switch my amp to something else - tube or ss, class A or A/B. One time almost bought a McIntosh MC452. But that was mostly for the sexy blue vumeter and to have some bragging rights as a McIntosh owner :)
Occasionally I wonder though about switching to any of the other class Ds mentioned here like Bel Canto or W4S or NuPrime or Red Dragon.
Will that improve the sound like what I constantly read in any amp or preamp discussion / review, like larger sound-stage or better separation of instruments or more air or faster micro-dynamics etc.? I don't know!
@confuse_upgradeitis - I used a crown xls1500 for about two years. This past winter I bought a used pair of Ghent audio class D monoblocks here on Audiogon. I was sceptical, since their power ratings were the same, but I was getting too curious about what, if anything, would sound different from my crown.
What I’ve heard is an improvement in clarity, sound source separation, a reduction in harshness and an increase in bass clarity and smoothness. In addition, the sound stage is deeper and wider.
Now, all of these differences took a few days, maybe a week, to discern. So, while it was a significant improvement, it wasn’t a quantum leap and I still greatly respect what the crown brought to my system for $325 brand stinking new.
I did, however, go from a stereo amp to monos, so I can’t speak as to what improvements were due to a better amp and what were due to moving to monos.
I opened the case up... It's crowded in there. Ain't no way I'm fixing anything on that board. And they changed the design of the monos, so I can't seem to buy just one.. ugh. New amps, I guess. Anyone need a subwoofer amp?
Todd - sorry to read about the mishap. If you are in the market for replacement mono blocks, consider contacting Merrill at Merrill Audio. He makes a range of highly regarded Class D amps, including mono blocks. Good luck getting up and running soon.
So, a lovely resolution and a mystery have presented themselves..
My amp, after barely functioning the morning after my screw up, works perfectly now. I put it back in, just to triple check that it is the amp, not the pre, and it's back to normal. I did disconnect the input connector and reseat it, as well as remove the fuse, check it and reinstall it. At any rate, yay! As for the mystery, I bought these from an Audiogon seller who said they were Ghent audio monos. When I opened the case, though, these amps each have one ICEpower 500 asp module, not the 2 ICEpower 200 ASP modules per amp that Ghent uses. So these are not Ghent monoblocks.. I guess someone built these themselves using Ghent cases. Interesting..
Just to keep the thread active: Please refer to my post of 5/20. I am a little disappointed in you folks, or maybe you were just trying to spare me the embarrassment of so obvious an oversight. First, The TP30 II is not class D; it's class T. More importantly there certainly is a way to turn the speakers off on the I32. It's called a MUTE button. Sometimes I can be so obtuse! Any way, I am glad I got everything well sorted out and can now easily select speakers, standard headphones and electrostatics as the mood strikes me.
If the "T" in your Class T stands for "Tripath" that is a Class D module, so your amp would be Class D. ARC and a few other manufacturers used this nomenclature for Tripath based amps.
I've had tripath, spectron, and now hypex. In the past I have owned both tube and class a solid state amps. Once I found hypex, I have never looked elsewhere.
It all comes down to personal preference. Some like the tube sound, others don't. There is no right or wrong. I always get a kick out of the audio nazis who put other's choices down with their snobby attitude and need to justify their own preferences - as if their version of reality is the only valid interpretation.
I'm thinking of spending for a pair of Hypex monoblocks soon. Could you please tell me your thoughts on the sound, and especially if you have compared them to ICEPower?
The Levinson comment is a red herring. There are other companies, like Bel Canto, who were well known for their tube amps, but have ditched them in favor of class d in general, Hypex in particular.
From a performance standpoint, there are few amps in the world which can match the ncore for closeness to an ideal amplifier, i.e., a "wire with gain".
The last thing that would influence my purchase of any piece of audio gear is someone else's opinion of the sound. Reviewer or otherwise. Like someone telling me which wine or beer I should buy....
BTW, I have no particular opinion on ML amps, but the generalized claims Fremer made in the article were just not true anymore for Class D amps.
Whether any reader here likes a particular amp or not, well, OK, I can't argue with that. But the general issues with Class D amps of the 1980's were long solved by 2013, despite some people being unwilling to let go of the same old myths.
This is an open forum, I believe that Class-d should be seen from both sides of the camp, not censored to just the pro-camp, this way members can make up their own minds whether or not to get one, because all do not see "Class-D as being just dandy".
Maybe soon in the future when the switching frequency can be raised double or tripple with advancement in semi conductor technology, so then it’s output filter can do it’s job properly without negative effect to the upper mids and highs.
It's an open forum, that much is true. There is also proper etiquette and simple common courtesy. When someone opens a discussion and states clearly:
"I thought it was time we had a pro- Class D thread. There's plenty of threads about comparisons, or detractors of Class D.
That's fine, you don't have to like Class D amps, and if you don't please go participate on one of those threads.
For
those of us who are very happy and excited about having musical,
capable amps that we can afford to keep on 24/7 and don't require large
spaces to put them in, this thread is for you."
When you come in with your negative comments and unwanted opinions, you are what is known as a "thread crapper".
No one asked for your side of the class d issue. In fact, your side was specifically asked to post elsewhere. You aren't enlightening anyone here as to the evils of class d or changing any minds, you are simply putting your coarse character on display for all to see.
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