Class D, "Control (Variable Gain)," Amplifier versus Class A/B Separates?
Hello, all!
I am currently running a quite old PS Audio GCC-100 in my chain. It is a variable gain, class-D solid state power amplifier with balanced stereo inputs (functionally a balanced integrated amplifier). I recently purchased and am quite enjoying a pair of KEF LS50 Meta loudspeakers, but have been hearing from numerous people that they may sound even better with Class-A or Class-A/B amplification. I am curious what benefits, if any, I might get from making a switch. I am currently considering selling the GCC-100 and replacing it with a Schiit Kara preamplifier combined with a pair of Outlaw 2220 monoblocks. Any and all advice about what I might expect from such a swap would be greatly appreciated! And in case it matters, source is a Denafrips Ares II R-2R DAC playing lossless Apple Music.
-Ed
@tweak1 what kind of internal upgrades did you have done? My remote is quite worn, so I could really use a replacement remote. Or perhaps I could just get a universal programmable remote. Hmm… -Ed |
No offense to any Schiit owners but I would not recommend anything from them. I purchased 3 different components from them, and they all had issues. I had to return all of them. Also, their customer service is awful. The company doesn't even list their phone number and anything you have a problem with takes days of back-and-forth messages/ arguments. For those of you that are happy with Schiit, congratulations. My statement is based on my own personal experience. As far as amplifier class, there is a lot of fondness for class A or A/B amplifiers in the audio community and a lot of prejudice toward class D amps, which are unfounded with today's technology. I own or have owned pretty much every class of amplifier and combination (hybrids) etc. and I can say that a well-designed class D amplifiers of today sounds excellent and often far better than others. Currently, my favorite amps are my class D. I have not heard the Outlaw amplifiers, so I don't have an opinion on those. I do own several PS Audio components and they are all keepers! If I were you, I'd listen to the components that you are interested in and buy them from a seller that offers in home trials with no questions asked returns and without restocking fees. People's opinions help, but each person's opinions are based on their own experience alone, word of mouth or what they read on the internet that "never lies"! In the end, your own ears are the only true judge! Good luck.
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I would not so much concentrate on the technology used, but the sound of the components. I’m not sure you would not be better off keeping the PS Audio preamp. I have not heard it, but it was higher level preamp when made. It seems your Denfrips is much higher end than is your preamp or amps. I would look for used higher end equipment. |
45 days ago I ordered the Kara on line. Arrived 10 days later…packing was not fancy but it was well protected. Worked perfectly right out of the box. Dead silent black background… big soundstage, no clicks or pops when switching… all in all, very satisfied. Also, their AI for answering questions is quite good…. so I can’t comment on their service. Although their return policy isn’t great, it is probably worth considering. |
@soix @ghdprentice You know, to be honest, I'm not sure. I think at this point my system is 98% there, perhaps slightly bring forward the vocals, but that might mostly be it. I think I've gotten my system almost as far as I can go without doing room treatments. With 4 and 6 year old boys, it's hard to justify room treatments right now, since it may not be too far down the road that my home will evolve as my sons grow, and I may change up the layout of the family room (where the system is now) or possibly even move the entire system to a different room in the house all together, like the formal living room (where my system originally resided when I first moved in). @tweak1 Thanks, I've sent them an email to see what they've to offer/recommend. @ellajeanelle @jallan @snapsc Thanks for your input regarding Schiit. I was intrigued by the Kara specifically due to a combination of reasonable price, balanced XLR in/outputs, and excellent measurements in instrumented testing found elsewhere online. It's true, I haven't had a chance to actually listen to any of Schiit's stuff, so that does make it a bit of an unknown quantity--the same applies to the Outlaw monoblocks, where I simply selected them based on price and instrumented measurements found online, and of course higher output and XLR connections. -Ed |
I have the Schitt Kara. It's quite neutral and quiet. Having a passive mode is a big plus as I can use it as a remote volume control for pieces that don't have one. It's audio functionality is excellent. However, there are two issues that are annoying. The remote has a very narrow range. You must point it directly at the hole. Even an inch or two away and it doesn't respond. The other is its sensitivity to static electricity. A slight touch and it will go into some strange mode and has to be power cycled. I have 5 Schiit products. I returned one. Their CS is terrible and it's nearly impossible to communicate with anyone besides AI. But their products are a great value and I haven't had any issues. |
@soix Under $2K for sure. Preferably closer to $1K for this little experiment. Who knows if anything can be achieved at all? -Ed |
@soix yes, I’m currently using the GCC-100 in integrated amplifier fashion. The subwoofer is attached to the Aux outs on it as well. -Ed |
@eddnog (good username!) that advice from @ghdprentice as applied to amplifier Class (D vs. A/AB) is worth heeding. To this day some folks feel dismissive about Class D / switching amps and assume by default A/AB are superior; there is no sound support (pun!) for this generalization. Selling something you like to make a newer but perhaps lateral move is not without risks. If you’re so satisfied as you suggest, perhaps also try some different source files than what Apple offers - if you vary the masters you access (I suppose many streaming services use the same edition(s)), you might find vocals effects you like more.
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@benanders @soix @mashif @tweak1 @ghdprentice So at the end, I went a different route and accidentally got what I wanted. I was using some inexpensive, 28" stands with glass bases and platforms from Amazon, and I upgraded to the KEF S2 bolt-on, color-matched stands for my LS50 Metas, filled them with sand, and discovered that the change in stands resulted in a more full-bodied sound, bringing vocals more forward, which is exactly what I wanted (even though that was not specifically done looking for that result, I just wanted something less likely to get broken or knocked over by my 4- and 6-year old sons!). Since it sounds the way I want now, I went ahead and ordered a new/upgraded remote control from PS Audio too, since my original one that came with the GCC-100 is quite worn out. Cheers to all and enjoy the music! -Ed |
@tweak1 Yes, thanks! I am running upgraded power cords for all three components (the Ares II DAC, the GCC-100, and the SVS SB-3000), a passive filtering power strip, and two iFi AC iPurifiers on the strip, one at the end where the cord comes in and a second one between the digital and analog device connections. Speaker cables are SKW, as are the RCA interconnects to the subwoofer. iFi Mercury 3.0 USB cable with iFi iPurifier3 at the DAC end and an iFi iSilencer on the source end. -Ed |
A deal breaker for me. I thought about trying the new Kara in a 2nd system. When they have Schiit Customer Service, and don’t return emails, [I’ve sent 3], what can we look forward to with customer service later when the Schiit breaks, no thanks. Their AI engine is Schiit too. Who wants to talk with that, I sure don’t. Waste of time. Makes me appreciate the boutique designer builders even more. |
To be fair, their communication, not the service, is the problem. When I ordered the Kara, I never received a shipping notification. It just showed up a week later. When I requested an RMA for a Lokius, I received it and returned the product. No confirmation of the return or refund, just a charge back on my card. The AI didn't even know that had happened. I wouldn't reject their products over that issue. It's in keeping with their generally snark attitude. |
@decooney @mashif There is something to be said about getting what you pay for in a way, though. PS Audio is a jiffy to get a hold of during their hours, the conversation was quite pleasant, and they even offered me to trade in my GCC-100 for a half off discount on a new, Stellar integrated amplifier ($1,750). If I weren’t already so happy with my current sound, I’d very seriously consider it! -Ed |
I would. Attitude is important. Emotional intelligence is not that difficult. If we lack most of all five elements of EI, consumers eventually get bored and move on. "There are five key elements to EI: self-awareness, self-regulation, motivation, empathy, and social skills.". Good Marketing & Support involves mindful communication too. Letting AI do most of that for you becomes self-defeating in time. Many people still appreciate a little human interaction too. That's all. |
decooney: Unless a company is the only "game in town" I will not buy from them. anyone worthy of my business absolutely must at a "minimum" meet the key elements that you mentioned and then some.There are way too many options out there to compromise on "anything" in life. I give people the benefit of the doubt but once a company screws me, they do not get a second chance from me. As far as audio equipment is concerned, Schitt and TEAC are two of those. Maybe one day some of those companies will stop being so greedy and realize that there are those out there, including myself, that are more than willing to pay a premium to get good service, as opposed to trying to save a few bucks. You can't put a price tag on time wasted. Time can't be replaced! |
@eddnog There are class D amps now that don't take a back seat to class A or AB amps; very different from just a few years ago. |
