Reminder: Duelund CAST caps are quite sensitive to how they are mounted. In my experience, if the cap is lying flat on a wood surface, there are annoying colorations: a thick, excessively warm bass, and dark high frequencies. I have tried several types of plywood and hardwood as well as aluminum, and none of them was satisfactory if the cap was lying flat on the surface. The best sounding mounting for me is to have 3 small plywood cubes under the cap to elevate it off the wood surface by 3/4" or so. Each cube is made from 3/4" Baltic Birch plywood. I have tried various cones and other spacers, but the BB cubes are still my favorite (so far).
I am only talking about the CAST pancake caps (100v speaker crossover types). I didn't experiment with different mounting of the 630v caps, and I no longer use them.
I mentioned all this in a post on this thread a year ago, but it is worth repeating. Besides I can't imagine any newcomers actually reading this entire thread. |
Salectric, Thanks for the reminder. I know you are referring to the DUELUND pancakes but still Interesting since I have my 630v Duelund Cast mounted on its side on a very thin piece of ply wood using Blue tack and the physical solder joints to hold it in place. Wondering what they might sound like mounted upright. |
Ok you Agon modifiers.....I have a comment and question. I just finished modifying my preamp so the filament heaters are powered by battery. Yeah, 6 volt rechargeable gel cell battery. I simply charge it with a separate filament tranny and turn off the power to the filament filter when the battery is fully charged.
More quiet background and I like the result very much. A nice lift in SQ for sure.
Have you folks done this?
Mine is set up to run 100% battery and if and when the battery drains I can simply turn on the filament filter power supply. |
Duelund recently released their copper/silver hybrid CAST cap. Anyone have used the caps for electronics? I've been a little wary about using their pure silver caps (besides the stratispheric price) due to a slight tonal thinning compared to pure copper mentioned by Jimmy Junkyard (personal communication). The hybrid cap may be best of both worlds. |
I have not used them and likely will not just due to price.
Would like to hear myself what some think.
Read U.K. Stereo magazine today HiFi choice?
Talking about how they thought for many years the source was the most important thing. (being Linn LP12 guys which I have an older loaded LP 12 as well) They have a pic of my speakers (co-incident) (Klipsch Lascala) and talk about how they do things modern speakers can not.
They think the issue stems back to the mono age when one big speaker was how you created life like image. When two channel stereo came out speakers became smaller and the importance of the source grew.
Now they are not so sure it was correct.
They likened the comparison to old film cameras that took very good quality pictures but did not have the quality of today's lenses but since they used a much larger film format it did not matter.
Meaning big speakers (horns in this case) do not need as precise a source to create life like sound.
I never thought I would hear this (main stream audio magazine) but maybe Steen's thoughts on the speakers being the most important part of the system is coming back? Now take the Lascala's they are listening too and mod them to the hilt like mine with all Duelund and there is NO comparison to stock and become quite refined! (and life like tone like crazy) |
Regarding the Clarity TC caps in amplifier power supplies. I am using them in a rebuild of my Lafayette KT-550 power amp. I have been very pleased with these caps (I am using the 50uf, 75uf and 110uf values).
Compared to the original electrolytics and some new panasonic caps that were recommended by other rebuilders, the Clarity TC caps have a smoother sound with less harshness in the upper ranges. The midrange is less pronounced, while still maintaining lifelike qualities.
Regarding coupling capacitors in a tube pre-amp:
I am thinking of replacing the coupling caps that are currently Audyn Q4 series. These caps are in the phono stage and the line stage, so the replacement caps must be very very quiet.
I am thinking of the following replacement caps: Audyn True Copper, Duelund, Mundorf Silver in Oil or the new Jupiter Copper caps.
The space is very tight, so I have to probably stay away from large caps. The current caps take only 1" in width in between the solder points.
Why replace the Audyn Q4 series coupling caps? The sound is a bit harsh on the to end and the upper midrange is a bit forward. I am hoping that upgrading the coupling caps will alleviate these issues and also give some more 3D depth to the soundstage. A cap with some meat on the bones and upper frequency smoothness would be welcomed.
Any input would be greatly appreciated. |
HiFi News a long article about the Denman horn from 1929.
Absolute monster over 7' high square at mouth and 27' long.
Clearly not made for your living room but Denman did make one for his house. (Predating Japanese audiophiles) Apparently astonishing sound. WE 555W driver of which Klipsch tried to copy.
That speaker (mono era) spawned the folded horn to use the walls and no doubt save space.
I know Steen Duelund was into horns and making huge horns. Based on the Denman horn?
Today Duelund is thought of as caps and resistors but Steen had a wide interest in Audio.
I would be interesting to hear from Duelund what was Steen's thoughts? |
Hoping we get a report on the Duelund hybrid caps. |
Volleyguy,
I had my share of oily leaking caps and broken connection with the cast. It's alot of money. You know the casts probably better.
They do some magic in the midrange that the close competitors cannot do. Naturalness to the sound starting from the midrange and not perfect in any way.
The casts is organic and midrange centric, doing the tube vocal trick so well. The hybrid come in to take up the slack in areas in the highs, bass depth and detail that ..... other premium caps do better.
I have just ordered the silver foil to bypass the cast (copper) and have excellent result using mundorf silver oils which came in as a bandaid to add openness, detail, speed and slam to the casts. The forte of the cast is the glowing midrange which ...NO other capacitor can give.
It just gets me thinking how the $30 0.1uf mundorf add so much more to the cast costing 10X the price. Making it sound more like the Jupiter copper foils, whilst having the midrange that the jupiter lacks. IMO, the jupiter does the detail, openness and definition way more acceptably.
the only reason it stays is that midrange presence, almost 300b tube like. but with all the difficiencies of the 300b tube sound. |
CAST are great caps, but in my system I found them too tipped up in the upper mids and lacking in deep bass compared to the Jupiter copper foil caps. I found the Jupiter caps evenly balanced from top to bottom with no exaggerated upper mids.
I would still use them in the right system to arrive at a net sound I desire. |
Grannyring, the midrange texture and presence is undisputedly"The Best".
Strange that you found it tipped up, as i clearly confirmed testing in separate setups, it is midrange centric and tipped up in the upper mids. I found the cast resistors caused the uppermids to be tipped up.
The Jupiter coppers are very nicely balanced overall, but i don't exactly find the "special" in any way.
I have be trying to bypassing the 1uf cu duelund and have found a 0.1 mundorf SIO to be nice overall - more highs, details, faster with better bass. The 0.01 vcap tftf has extremely deep bass and clear but causes the midrange to go flat!
I will be trying a SGO bypass, on order as the duelund 0.01 silver foil bypass are out of stock of another several weeks. I wonder if this will be the best way to extract and balance the sound of the Cast Cu.
I happened to come accross last night a dutch (i think) reveiw of the new hubrid Duelund. It,s basically half a CU cap connected with another half(at least they say) to form 1 cap of the desired value. Orientation of silver +ve and cu -ve is recommended.
It was still found to be lacking in the exact same areas discussed above in my findings, but improved upon the CU. It still did not bring out sufficient speed, highs, deep bass. The review found the opposite orientation with silver portion out to be slighter better, giving more of the silver tone.
I think if it works, a bypass with a small silverfoil cap might be the answer. Sadly, to retain much of the Cu's tone and bring out the highs will inevitably cause the loss in the tone and analogue smoothness of the CU cast. Any cap which opens up the staging and frequency extremes will disturb this delicate balance. Especially a pure silver foil bypass, any comments?
The review ended that all duelund was not the way and he has a jensen pure silverfoil to replace the 2nd set of CU cast in his preamp stage and found it to be the best combination.
The Duelund or full Duelund will still be best for certain types of music, i.e vocals, chamber and classical.
So i may end the quest for the perfect cap and live with a small bypass. Sadly, didnt couldnt get myhands on the new duelund silverfoils to test. |
Sorry, i meant "not tipped up in the upper midrange" |
I think we are all exploring different ways to get the sound we want. I can see how the Duelund copper cast can leave some listeners wanting. There are so many variations speakers, room, cables, output tube, driver tube, power supply caps...and the list goes on and on. I've have my own capacitor journey. One way to get rid of a capacitor would be to build a direct coupled amp. We DIYers are fortunate to be able to make these changes to our equipment for comparatively small costs. |
we Diy'ers always want to believe a highly rated "audiophile" ,"boutique" component is the way to sonic bliss and outperforms everything or everyone's else equipment. That is all a fallacy!
Yes better parts always have sonic gains, but may or will not give the best or even the closest to best overall performance. There are just to many variables.
I don't deny equipment companies whether by sheer luck of design expertise using normal components are achieving excellent results and a base for many tweakers.
There is obviously a fourth dimension of tweaking with boutique parts, we don't even dare to imagine the aspects as you mentioned like room acoustics, cables etc. The permutations are just mind boggling. |
"I think we are all exploring different ways to get the sound we want." Well said Jet. Which cap sounds best will vary depending on the particular application and the particular listener.
In my case, I have settled on a mix of Copper V-Caps (CuTF) and old style V-Caps (TFTF) for my electronics, and a wider variety of caps for my speakers including CAST, Mundorf Supreme and Sonicap Gen 1.
I agree with the reservations about the CAST sound expressed by Justubes2 and Jetrexpro. Nothing is perfect.
I take exception, however, to the comments about a bypass cap. I have tried all sorts of bypass caps and combinations of bypass caps, and I have yet to find a single instance where there was an overall improvement. Yes, the bypass cap may sound impressive at first and some aspects of the sound may be real improvements such as HF speed and extension, but there is always, to my ears, a less natural, less coherent sound overall than just the base cap on its own. Other folks will reach other conclusions but that is what I have found to be true, and I have been trying bypass caps off and on for over 30 years. I don't say this to discourage anyone from trying bypass caps but only as a warning not to make a hasty judgment that a bypass cap is an overall improvement. Let the caps break in and then try removing the bypass; if you still think the bypass cap is an improvement then by all means leave it in. Just don't be too quick to conclude that it really is an improvement. |
Yes, it is very easy to get the bypass wrong and thou it made a difference and improvement, usually there are shortfalls.
Knowing what top capacitors sound, combining them to excellence is an art in itself and can be very rewarding.
My interest was recently piqued with the hybrid which Grannyring mentioned but don't think i want to spend that kind of money and didnt order it this time. likely knowing even try silver foil bypasses leads will lead to a very expensive cap combination which i strongly have reservation whether it will work out to my liking.
Again, one must know what he or she wants and expects. Knowing the traits of each cap is a big advantage.
I have been testing the bypasses with rca connections so i can remove them and switch.
I felt adding the SIO did improve things overall, but still didnt quite like the way the sio leaves a strong sonic footprint on all kinds of music, losing that ability to distinguish and show different recording in a different light and the way it was recorded, but it was the best i could muster.
Knowing what i wanted and missed what the tftf can do so well, even better than the cuft, is depth and frequency extremes.
Another revelation was encountered, adding another 0.01uf tftf using duelund silver hookup wire after the leads to the combination allowed the glorious midrange return, imparting the blackness between instruments, extension and depth i felt ever so lacking. It just would not work without the addition of the sio and duelund wire!.
I think i finally hit it on the spot and although expecting the SGO to arrive any time today, i no longer feel the need to swap the sio out. I'll leave it on the cooker for a week or so before try again. |
JT2, maybe you will have more success than I did, but just so you know I have tried sll sorts of caps as bypass caps including Mundorf S/O, S/G/O, Sonicap Platinum, Dynamicap, Infinicap, CAST, V-Cap TFTF, silver micas, Russian Teflon, polystyrenes, etc., etc. |
I am curious if folks have heard a diode or bridge rectifier that they feel made a real improvement. In your experience do they impact the sound as much as capacitors or even enough to mess with? |
They do clean up the hash.
But every brand, nada nada has different sonic traits.
I did have bridge doide on a header in a cdp years back and a brief comparision clearly shows a difference.
Each spec of the different low noise diodes/ bridge will be different, guess the materials and leads clearly make a difference too.
They are not expensive, but why to tediousm but they improvement is worth the low cost. |
I have some limited experience with bypass stacks and it was not favorable. As some of you know I have been trying different types of capacitors in my power supply for the past three months. For the blow by blow you can refer to my system page thread. During this process I tried polypropylene with bypass stacks and it was not favorable. There are many ways to do this and I only tried one. I am sure someone with more patients and experience like Justubes2 can have fine results with caps stacks. I would like to try them again with different values and different types of caps. The variations are endless.
After 3 months of listening to different caps in my power supply I had excellent results with the new production Audio Note Kaisei 500v caps.
This is from my post in my system pg-
The Audio Note Kaisei 50uf caps have been in my amp for two weeks and have about 100 hours on them and their sound has settled so it is no longer changing. They have a purity and clairty that no other cap I have tried in my power supply has. I have tried oils, polypropylene, polypropylene with bypass. The Audio Note guys know the Black Gate sound and I believe they have worked on these caps so they sound like Black Gates. An open and very free sound. They don't have much of a sonic signature, they just somehow allow a clarity and purity to shine thru. Because I dont detect a sonic signature I feel confident in ordering more to replace the remaining oils my amp's power supply. Regards-Jet |
Do they sound similar to blackgates. I know we are looking at 500v and wkz blackgate are not sold anywhere. How do the audionote character sound like, if you have used blackgates before in other applications
A pure film cap, whichever brand may sound smooth but lacking some kicking energy when used in the psu, did you find so? |
Justubes2,
I have black gates in several places in the audio circuit of my amp and these caps have a very free and open sound like the Audio Note Kaisei.
I think the Audio Note team is very familiar with WKZ BlackGate and their goal is make the Kaisei sound as good if not even better than these.
I have not tried a pure film cap in my Power supply so I cant comment. Regards Jet |
I should also mention that I have tried only the Wima Polypropylene caps in my power supply. Which leaves many that I have not tried like Clarity caps for instance. I know many many amps use Polypropylene caps so they must sound very good to many people. |
I have tested the Duelund silver foil 0.01uf, burned on the cable cooker for 5 days.
Impressions so far are no hint of typical silvers clarity and extensions, not that it is not clear sounding as slightly upfront sounding. Fairly detailed as a bypass and it reminds me very much as a mundorf 0.1uf silver oil, maybe just a tad better.
Basically, easy listening cap but does not beat the vcap TFTF as a bypass in neturality, depth and deep bass at half the price. Yes, a small bypass can have very surprising impact on low bass slam.
It has been removed from critical duties. |
Justubes2, Could you fill us in on your bypass cap values?
Lets say you have a 22uf cap in your power supply, what values and brand would you choose as your bypass caps? Thanks jet |
Jexrexpro,
I have experiented a little on bypassing, the 1% or 10% rule of thumb did not apply when using exotic caps as bypass.
A 0.001% and 0.0001% made very noticeable changes which follows the sonic characteristic of the high quality bypass cap. When i mean exotic, they are duelund cast, vcap tftf, vcap cutf, mundorf silver oils and silver golds.
The bypass values were 1uf for duelund cast copper, vcap tftf.
0.1uf for mundorf silver oil and silver gold oil. 0.22uf for vcap cutf. 0.01 for vcap tftf and noe duelund pure silver foil.
For what i found, even a 0.01uf on a 10,000uf cap gave a very strong sonic character of these exotic caps which i have used in the signal path of my preamp prior to using them in the power supply as i have gone passive and had all these caps sitting around. I would never have spent such money for osu bypassing using these caps, maybe a 0.01uf as cost can go to a fair bit.
Interestingly, these exotic caps which have a very strong flavour on it's own exhibited the same characteristics in the psu section as a bypass.
There are caps which i have used a main signal and bypassing which never stayed in place for more than a few song selections such as auricap, hovland, mundorf supremes, siderealcap, almost all of the multicap range with the exception of the RTX.
I would say a 0.1uf would be enough to gain a large amount of the bypasscap sonics for a 22uf main cap presuming that is the cap in the circuit that is critical which youbwould have found by swapping of lower quality caps.
It is most important to know what you want from the sound and have a good idea of the reference quality and characterics of good sound as opposed to just ore sparkling highs , warmer and more natural mids and the favourite, better bass as one can easily get carried away.
The duelund copper cast for example at 1uf bypassimg a 10k uf reseviour in digital gave in 2 different systems a superb analogue sound reminiscent for vinyl playback.
It was exceeding beautiful, pleasing and enjoyable. If i had not swapped in a vcap tftf lying around o the same value, i would never have know what i was missing.
The vcap alone did not work as vocal became bone bare and lacked a the presence of the duelind or a mundorf silver oil. Bass, depth, highs and blackness was to die for with the vcap bypass and would fair better playing new age or some instrumental music.
The choice of bypass would be best selected having a strong reference of what you want and how your system sound currently.
Each a every different system will have a different selection. However, over the years tweaking my system and also a friends system, i found that when the improvement made by equipment, room acoustics etc and it gets to a point where the selection of these finishing touches are large and become almost identicle, meaning that the sonic traits such as bypassing with impact 2 different systems very similarly.
Different systems meaning a back a few years ago, 1 system was warm with full bass and the other clean, tight, leaner and tilter towards the shrill side. What worked for 1 didnt work for the other, now 2 systems have converged to react very similarly to tweaks such as cap bypassing.
My presonal recommendation would be to bypass using a 0.1uf to 0.47uf cap, duelund cast cu, vcap tftf and cuft, mundorf silver, gold and oil series. These have probably have very strong traits but not over extreme and still rather balanced sounding.
Interestingly, the Jupiter copper foil is a very balanced and fine sound cap when using on its own in the signal path. Being extrement well rounded in all sonic parameters dont seem to impart much as a bypass.
The new duelund 0.01uf falls also in that category, adding clarity,,mtexture as a bypass, but does excel in any one area as a bypasscap. |
Sorry for the typo's and i am typing from a tablet and almost impossible to review in a small posting box. |
Thanks Justubes for the detailed response. I have printed this and will refer to it often. |
Justubes2
Just checking up on the thread been a month or so.
I do want to clarify on the CAST's leaking I was given a full refund. It was a bad batch I hear? I really just wanted them replaced.
With that money refund I tried Jupiter Copper Foil and the leads broke off a couple of those caps. I am more concerned about build quality of the Jupiter caps as the leads are very fragile. These were small value .01uf caps.
With the rest of the money I replaced the Jupiter with Duelund RS and like them very much. I could not do a direct comparison to CAST vs. RS as the CAST had leaked and were gone.
I will have to take Tony Gee's word on this one that the CAST's are a blacker background.
To me the CAST's midrange (that you mentioned them being very good) is key. If you do not get the midrange correct it always sounds like HiFi?
After all these years of testing and listening (to what some would call small detail) there has been one big negative I have become much more sensitive and frustratingly so. When my CAST cap started to leak it was not seeing the oil that tipped me off to a problem it was I could hear something wrong! (took off bottom of amp and sure enough CAST was leaking so much for theory one can not hear a difference in caps!) At Starbucks the other day I literally could not stay and read some magazines and had to go outside on the patio. The natural sounds outside do not bother me the horrific sound system in Starbucks is literally nails down a chalkboard. (literally 90% just noise)
Cancelled Sirius radio in the car horrible sound, can not listen to compressed radio stations, about half of CD's are unbearable in car. In the car with my teenage daughter we play dad guess the bit rate of the recording on her iPhone. I guess it's great the kids think dad is amazing! (very accurate guess)
Even my bedroom system (which is still pretty good filled with VCap cuft, Jupiter and Jensen caps) I can not listen to long as I still have vintage caps in the tweeters and they are crap. (very noisy)
justubes2 you have given me the idea to replace the tweeter cap (in bedroom system) with a sitting around Mundorf Silver in oil I already have. To me I remember an artificial tilt to the sound with that cap. (upwards)
But I do like to revisit things to see if I feel the same years later.
I also am using CAST followed by VSF in the tweeters in main system and would like to revist that to maybe CAST CAST. (reason is less noise)
To anyone who stumbles on this thread that is your warning. It sounds good to hear the difference in what some would say something as trivial a cap until you understand it's full implications.
I think there is something with age and noise. As we age we want to listen to music (and enjoy) but the tolerances for noise really decrease. |
Hi Volleyguy,
I just stumbled on the update on the jupiter copper foil review by Tony Gee and he gave it a very good rating.
I just so happened that i ws toying between the jupiter and cutf on my digital input and concluded the same, that the jupiter was one of the most balanced caps that does all areas well enough to make it my universal cap to use. It does'nt beat say the cast, cutf or tftf in certain areas, but does everything very well. I have a very itchy feeling it would work very well in the tweeter blocking function.
I rolled the vcap tftf, cast, mundorf silver oils and silver gold.
The vcap tftf was the most extended and linear sounding, the silver oils were a very sparkly but also had a disorganized and slightly messy upfront staging. The silver golds were strange, had good depth, calmness and quite natural sounding, ultimately lacking extension. The cast were good, detailed, natural but actually feel it strength radiates from the midrange out but fall short on the top amd bottom frequencies.
The cast works for me as the this a small value cap in my tweeter crossover which i left the tftf there and believe it has a good synergy with the cast not making it too dull sounding. I wpuld strongly feel, full cast would not be what i want, it probably works great for a dull sounding setup.
Even the mundorf silver or silver mix definately has more detail in the higher registers.
Again, the choice of solder plays a good part in getting caps to work synergistically in any given application, if you have a chance, wbt, oyaide solder works "better" with a cast of maybe your RS. I have just tested the mundorf supreme sikver gold solder, i leaves a very similar sonic characteristic as a cast cap. To my ears, lacking it both the extension and gaves a nicer midrange.
You might want to look into psu and grounding to get less noise. Focussing just on swapping caps in the tweeter cannot be a cure all and you may have to sacrifice some more sparkle by adding 2 casts.
I now focus on getting a balanced sound over focusing on getting great mids with one cap choice, or more brilliance and detail from another cap choice etc.
The virture of the cap with the best midrange, always sacrifices the openess and sparkle.
A cap that excels in detail and clarity always causes a more upfront perspective and lost of the natural midrange.
I have not found any cap that does it all.
The jupiter copper is the closest, but doesnt highlight any particular range. It has become a no brainer choice for me unless there are specific areas of the sound i would like to gain a little more, thats where the cast, cutf, tftf and mundorf would have to be called for duty.
Imo, the cuft is closest sounding to the cast, not nearly as natural but is what i would class as a consider a midrange centric cap which has a very clear and prominent midrange details. So much so that the clarity cannot bring out some euphony in the vocals and midrange texture.
Do make it a point to take note the effect of the tweeter cap has on the bass, yes a warm less extended cap on the tweeter takes away some dynamics ad low extension on the bass noticeably. |
Justubes2
That is my exact finding with the Jupiter caps which are now my go to also. Perfectly balanced. I like the CAST, but have found time and again they are tilted upward in the upper mids. I think some love this sound and thus rank it higher. I find the Jupiter more neutral with a tad more fine detail and air. |
Let me give the Duelund comment more background. This is my experience in electronics only. I have not tried them in speakers which may yield a different result. Even in electronics they are outstanding and my second choice after the Jupiter coppers. |
Tony Gee listening comments and ratings are only based on placement in speaker crossovers....not electronics as an FYI. |
Yes, I feel that in and signal the cast imparts a stronger characteristic. I actually do have a 2% cast also as a mid bypass of 2uf in the crossover, but
didnt find that midrange magic.
Cast can make a digital systems almost sound like vinyl which is the exact reason why I have moved back to digital.
Like on great vinyl recordings, you get it all, smooth natural mids and extension.
On lesser vinyl recordings, here is were I find lacking which the cast pulls the same bag of tricks and sounds overly analogue lacking resolution of digital.
So I can be worth its weight in gold in the right systems or careful matching which I go from bypass psu caps with a mix to get more details and highs but did find it lessened the midrange beauty by doing so.
I still managed to get some midrange beauty that I acheive with aacheive by other brands of caps limited to those I has selected. |
Grannyring, do try your silver oils in parallel with duelundstonally to see if it tonally and gain more details, the vocals were still good doing so. The silver gold oil worked slightly better as a bypass to the cast for me together with a small tftf
which allowed a more open soundstage.The silver oils are good in the tweeter cap as well, not untilltftf comparitftf and cast did I find the glare and somewhat uncontrolled highs. |
Update on the duelund 0.01uf silver foil meant as a bypasscap.
Finds on getting bore extension is as previously stated.
This is a very neutral cap and balanced sounding which actually does'nt add much as a bypass.
I have retested in a different application, digital input as a small value of 0.01uf is sufficient. The main comparision is the jupiter copper which used on it's own is one cap i find the most neutral and balanced sounding accross the whole frequency range, it was however a 1uf replacing the 1uf electrolytic.
The duelund as a main signal cap is slightly more detailed and clear whcih leads to a more upfront and less open sounding compared to the Jupiter copper.
I must say without critical listening, they sound very similar ,but currently have preference to the more layered and spacious sound of the Jupiter copper although with a penalty of a slight loss of detail of the duelund silver.
The silver duelund does not have the typical lush and analogue mids of the cast cu and still a very fine sounding cap with better extension on both extremes, so it is balanced over the whole frequency band. Does not sound bright or lean. Do not expect the bass resolution of a teflon cap like the tftf.
Do note, unless you can use the small value in coupling, it should help bring good details as a bypass, but likely not additive to tone or high. A very fine sounding cap which probably needs more time to see if the staging can be more open and have better depth, otherwise, it very good in all if it can be used in a very small value. |
I have not tried the SIO in paralell with Duelund. I typically like using just one Jupiter copper cap in the signal path. Another cap I like to "mix" in is the Jensen copper foil in paper tube cap. These are very warm and inviting and on their own may be a little to dark. If used elsewhere in an amp with the Jupiter cap the sound is very natural and inviting and not the least bright or fatiguing. |
Justubes2
" I have a very itchy feeling it would work very well in the tweeter blocking function".
I have much to read here to catch up but agree with this statement.
The Jupiter is the quietest cap I have heard. I find it lack CAST or RS dynamics but is stunningly quiet. |
On the other side Jupiter and RS at 2uf are the same price in which case I would go RS and move my VSF to bedroom speakers |
Havent tried the jupiter in the tweeter. Big values are not any cheaper compared to the rs and would also feel towards the favour of the . jupiteduelundr cu has more fine details and extension than the cu and should be a better choice than duelund which are wwarmer and more closed in though high tones are very inviting sounding. |
If I had to do it again, unless you feel that there is something lacking
With the caps now, I think I would be contended with either duelunds, vcap or jupiter cu.
I found big improvement using those black bullets at the speaker terminals than what a swap of caps will do given you have good caps there presently. |
Justubes2
"The virture of the cap with the best midrange, always sacrifices the openess and sparkle".
Have you tried the VSF? It is natural like the CAST but has more sparkle as you say but in reality it is noisier.
I do use the VSF after the CAST and at the time preferred it to two CAST's.
I guess my priorities are on the crucial midrange. I do not want to be aware I am listening to a stereo at all and if the mid range is not good? It always feels like a stereo.
I am going through all the posts trying to catch up and am also glad to hear about the Audio Note caps. (power supply)
This thread has worked out wildly beyond my imagination in the beginning! So many great inputs from so many enthusiasts that one can read (yes extremely long) and get a very good idea of what to do and expect.
We also have great choices now in a product (caps) that maybe at one time was thought maybe to not matter or matter much. In here it is the same caps over and over. Duelund Jupiter and Vcap.
I must say VCap's seem to be robustly built. |
Grannyring
"That is my exact finding with the Jupiter caps which are now my go to also. Perfectly balanced. I like the CAST, but have found time and again they are tilted upward in the upper mids".
I find the Jupiter's are bar none the quietest cap out there. To anyone reading this post I think Grannyring's priorities are absolute noise reduction.
To me I would say if the Jupiter was physically 3 to 5x bigger I might have to agree with Grannyring. I find Jupiter lacks dynamics of the Duelund line.
Oddly not many on here talk about dynamics? Where I think Duelund is wildly successful!
Now the blackness around everything with Jupiters is really something to hear if that is one's thing. Everything is carved out of blackness. |
Justube2
"With the caps now, I think I would be contended with either duelunds, vcap or jupiter cu".
Agreed once you reach a level of these caps you are getting to one's preferences, system synergy which someone might have to hear for themselves.
If one reads yours Grannyring or mine one can guess we are all looking for something slightly different?
Mine is natural and dynamic. Duelund gives me that in spades. (especially CAST and RS) VSF were not as dynamic. (but natural)
Now Jupiter I can not imagine a quieter cap. Just crazy quiet. To me unnaturally quiet! Do they deserve a 13 rating by Tony Gee I would say yes. Are they as good as RS, not to me. (both rated 13) Could they be if bigger? Maybe? |
Please remember what Tony Gee says about Jupiter caps matters not at all for electronics for one reason. He only used them in speakers! My experience and comments are in electronics. Caps do not necessarily sound the same in both applications.
The Jupiters are just more musical in electronics. I hate brightness and glare. I long for smooth, natural tone. The CAST caps are tilted up in the upper mids and in the end fatigue me in electronics. This is not the case in speakers based on my experience. These caps do not always sound the same in both applications....very important point. In speakers, I choose the flat, pancake style CAST. They sound great and better than the cylindrical CAST caps for electronics based on my experience.
I find the Jupiter caps as dynamic as CAST in electronics....at least in my systems and applications.
Some of this comes down to personal preferences, but I do want to warn readers that Tony Gee's comments are based on speaker usage only!
An ASC oil cap may sound fine in a power supply, but lousy in a speaker. A Solen Fast Cap may sound good in a power supply, but not so good as a coupling cap or speaker crossover cap. |
I have to take exception to the comment about Solens sounding good in a power supply. Solens always have a plastic, artificial sound no matter where they are used, at least to my ears.
For what it's worth, I sold my big Duelund CAST copper caps that I used in my speaker crossovers. Over time and once I got over the initial enthusiasm of trying something new and different, I realized their colorations bothered me to the point of interfering with my enjoyment of the music. Others may reach different conclusions, but the Duelunds are not the sound I am looking for. I had previously reached the same conclusion about Duelund CAST caps in electronics. I never did find a spot where the Duelunds were my preferred choice. In electronics I always come back to V-Caps especially the CuTF series. |
I agree about the Solens as I don't like them in the power supply at all. I was just making a point as many have reviewed the Solens as a good power supply cap and average at best in crossovers..... |
I like the vcaps in electronics also, but did find the Jupiter copper foil more to my liking. Both are great! |
Salectric,
Curious as to which caps you now have in your crossover?
Thanks |
I went back to what I was using before I bought the Duelunds---Sonicap Gen 1 for the high-pass and Mundorf Supreme (regular Supreme, not silver or S/O or S/G/O) for the low-pass. Nothing is perfect but in the context of my system those caps are more natural sounding than the CAST caps. To be honest I haven't used the high-efficiency speakers for several months. I have used my Spendor SP-100 speakers exclusively. Over the winter I re-evaluated a lot of things in my system and I made a number of changes in addition to the speakers. I may change my mind again next month, who knows, but for now I am happy with the present setup. |
