Any previews on how they sound even not broken in as yet? Im deceiding if they are worth a shot ordering over cutft/ftf or duelunds which i am used to and do like a whole lot. |
Is there any updates on the Jupiter copper foil caps to try.
Having tried the duelund cast, they are as good as it gets, neutral and doesnt highlight the.sound in any.way and just does things very well.
The CUTFs certainly do seem to let a tad of warm through the midrange, each having their strengths, the TFTFs still give that drive to the music like no other caps, no even the CUTFs or Casts.
Overall, if a balance can be matched with the CUTFs and TFTf, it can make a mighty fine sound with a touch of Duelunds to just bind the whole picture everything together.
I did have some success mating the mundorf sio bypassed with the TFTF which was very nice too and need more testing. I was thinking a CUTF bypassed with the TFTF might hit the spot. |
The Duelund RS have just been stated as a pre-order at PCX. Price is competitive though still cost more than the jupiters.
Is there any way that is would be a worst bet as still untested. |
Anyone got their hands on the new Jupiter copper HT. Sonicraft lists them and some audiocircle members report where that they were obtained directly from jupiter condensers but still not listed on their website. |
Hi Salectric,
Which position do you still perfer the duelund resistors? |
They do clean up the hash.
But every brand, nada nada has different sonic traits.
I did have bridge doide on a header in a cdp years back and a brief comparision clearly shows a difference.
Each spec of the different low noise diodes/ bridge will be different, guess the materials and leads clearly make a difference too.
They are not expensive, but why to tediousm but they improvement is worth the low cost. |
Volleyguy,
I had my share of oily leaking caps and broken connection with the cast. It's alot of money. You know the casts probably better.
They do some magic in the midrange that the close competitors cannot do. Naturalness to the sound starting from the midrange and not perfect in any way.
The casts is organic and midrange centric, doing the tube vocal trick so well. The hybrid come in to take up the slack in areas in the highs, bass depth and detail that ..... other premium caps do better.
I have just ordered the silver foil to bypass the cast (copper) and have excellent result using mundorf silver oils which came in as a bandaid to add openness, detail, speed and slam to the casts. The forte of the cast is the glowing midrange which ...NO other capacitor can give.
It just gets me thinking how the $30 0.1uf mundorf add so much more to the cast costing 10X the price. Making it sound more like the Jupiter copper foils, whilst having the midrange that the jupiter lacks. IMO, the jupiter does the detail, openness and definition way more acceptably.
the only reason it stays is that midrange presence, almost 300b tube like. but with all the difficiencies of the 300b tube sound. |
Grannyring, the midrange texture and presence is undisputedly"The Best".
Strange that you found it tipped up, as i clearly confirmed testing in separate setups, it is midrange centric and tipped up in the upper mids. I found the cast resistors caused the uppermids to be tipped up.
The Jupiter coppers are very nicely balanced overall, but i don't exactly find the "special" in any way.
I have be trying to bypassing the 1uf cu duelund and have found a 0.1 mundorf SIO to be nice overall - more highs, details, faster with better bass. The 0.01 vcap tftf has extremely deep bass and clear but causes the midrange to go flat!
I will be trying a SGO bypass, on order as the duelund 0.01 silver foil bypass are out of stock of another several weeks. I wonder if this will be the best way to extract and balance the sound of the Cast Cu.
I happened to come accross last night a dutch (i think) reveiw of the new hubrid Duelund. It,s basically half a CU cap connected with another half(at least they say) to form 1 cap of the desired value. Orientation of silver +ve and cu -ve is recommended.
It was still found to be lacking in the exact same areas discussed above in my findings, but improved upon the CU. It still did not bring out sufficient speed, highs, deep bass. The review found the opposite orientation with silver portion out to be slighter better, giving more of the silver tone.
I think if it works, a bypass with a small silverfoil cap might be the answer. Sadly, to retain much of the Cu's tone and bring out the highs will inevitably cause the loss in the tone and analogue smoothness of the CU cast. Any cap which opens up the staging and frequency extremes will disturb this delicate balance. Especially a pure silver foil bypass, any comments?
The review ended that all duelund was not the way and he has a jensen pure silverfoil to replace the 2nd set of CU cast in his preamp stage and found it to be the best combination.
The Duelund or full Duelund will still be best for certain types of music, i.e vocals, chamber and classical.
So i may end the quest for the perfect cap and live with a small bypass. Sadly, didnt couldnt get myhands on the new duelund silverfoils to test. |
Sorry, i meant "not tipped up in the upper midrange" |
we Diy'ers always want to believe a highly rated "audiophile" ,"boutique" component is the way to sonic bliss and outperforms everything or everyone's else equipment. That is all a fallacy!
Yes better parts always have sonic gains, but may or will not give the best or even the closest to best overall performance. There are just to many variables.
I don't deny equipment companies whether by sheer luck of design expertise using normal components are achieving excellent results and a base for many tweakers.
There is obviously a fourth dimension of tweaking with boutique parts, we don't even dare to imagine the aspects as you mentioned like room acoustics, cables etc. The permutations are just mind boggling. |
Yes, it is very easy to get the bypass wrong and thou it made a difference and improvement, usually there are shortfalls.
Knowing what top capacitors sound, combining them to excellence is an art in itself and can be very rewarding.
My interest was recently piqued with the hybrid which Grannyring mentioned but don't think i want to spend that kind of money and didnt order it this time. likely knowing even try silver foil bypasses leads will lead to a very expensive cap combination which i strongly have reservation whether it will work out to my liking.
Again, one must know what he or she wants and expects. Knowing the traits of each cap is a big advantage.
I have been testing the bypasses with rca connections so i can remove them and switch.
I felt adding the SIO did improve things overall, but still didnt quite like the way the sio leaves a strong sonic footprint on all kinds of music, losing that ability to distinguish and show different recording in a different light and the way it was recorded, but it was the best i could muster.
Knowing what i wanted and missed what the tftf can do so well, even better than the cuft, is depth and frequency extremes.
Another revelation was encountered, adding another 0.01uf tftf using duelund silver hookup wire after the leads to the combination allowed the glorious midrange return, imparting the blackness between instruments, extension and depth i felt ever so lacking. It just would not work without the addition of the sio and duelund wire!.
I think i finally hit it on the spot and although expecting the SGO to arrive any time today, i no longer feel the need to swap the sio out. I'll leave it on the cooker for a week or so before try again. |
Do they sound similar to blackgates. I know we are looking at 500v and wkz blackgate are not sold anywhere. How do the audionote character sound like, if you have used blackgates before in other applications
A pure film cap, whichever brand may sound smooth but lacking some kicking energy when used in the psu, did you find so? |
I have tested the Duelund silver foil 0.01uf, burned on the cable cooker for 5 days.
Impressions so far are no hint of typical silvers clarity and extensions, not that it is not clear sounding as slightly upfront sounding. Fairly detailed as a bypass and it reminds me very much as a mundorf 0.1uf silver oil, maybe just a tad better.
Basically, easy listening cap but does not beat the vcap TFTF as a bypass in neturality, depth and deep bass at half the price. Yes, a small bypass can have very surprising impact on low bass slam.
It has been removed from critical duties. |
Jexrexpro,
I have experiented a little on bypassing, the 1% or 10% rule of thumb did not apply when using exotic caps as bypass.
A 0.001% and 0.0001% made very noticeable changes which follows the sonic characteristic of the high quality bypass cap. When i mean exotic, they are duelund cast, vcap tftf, vcap cutf, mundorf silver oils and silver golds.
The bypass values were 1uf for duelund cast copper, vcap tftf.
0.1uf for mundorf silver oil and silver gold oil. 0.22uf for vcap cutf. 0.01 for vcap tftf and noe duelund pure silver foil.
For what i found, even a 0.01uf on a 10,000uf cap gave a very strong sonic character of these exotic caps which i have used in the signal path of my preamp prior to using them in the power supply as i have gone passive and had all these caps sitting around. I would never have spent such money for osu bypassing using these caps, maybe a 0.01uf as cost can go to a fair bit.
Interestingly, these exotic caps which have a very strong flavour on it's own exhibited the same characteristics in the psu section as a bypass.
There are caps which i have used a main signal and bypassing which never stayed in place for more than a few song selections such as auricap, hovland, mundorf supremes, siderealcap, almost all of the multicap range with the exception of the RTX.
I would say a 0.1uf would be enough to gain a large amount of the bypasscap sonics for a 22uf main cap presuming that is the cap in the circuit that is critical which youbwould have found by swapping of lower quality caps.
It is most important to know what you want from the sound and have a good idea of the reference quality and characterics of good sound as opposed to just ore sparkling highs , warmer and more natural mids and the favourite, better bass as one can easily get carried away.
The duelund copper cast for example at 1uf bypassimg a 10k uf reseviour in digital gave in 2 different systems a superb analogue sound reminiscent for vinyl playback.
It was exceeding beautiful, pleasing and enjoyable. If i had not swapped in a vcap tftf lying around o the same value, i would never have know what i was missing.
The vcap alone did not work as vocal became bone bare and lacked a the presence of the duelind or a mundorf silver oil. Bass, depth, highs and blackness was to die for with the vcap bypass and would fair better playing new age or some instrumental music.
The choice of bypass would be best selected having a strong reference of what you want and how your system sound currently.
Each a every different system will have a different selection. However, over the years tweaking my system and also a friends system, i found that when the improvement made by equipment, room acoustics etc and it gets to a point where the selection of these finishing touches are large and become almost identicle, meaning that the sonic traits such as bypassing with impact 2 different systems very similarly.
Different systems meaning a back a few years ago, 1 system was warm with full bass and the other clean, tight, leaner and tilter towards the shrill side. What worked for 1 didnt work for the other, now 2 systems have converged to react very similarly to tweaks such as cap bypassing.
My presonal recommendation would be to bypass using a 0.1uf to 0.47uf cap, duelund cast cu, vcap tftf and cuft, mundorf silver, gold and oil series. These have probably have very strong traits but not over extreme and still rather balanced sounding.
Interestingly, the Jupiter copper foil is a very balanced and fine sound cap when using on its own in the signal path. Being extrement well rounded in all sonic parameters dont seem to impart much as a bypass.
The new duelund 0.01uf falls also in that category, adding clarity,,mtexture as a bypass, but does excel in any one area as a bypasscap. |
Sorry for the typo's and i am typing from a tablet and almost impossible to review in a small posting box. |
Hi Volleyguy,
I just stumbled on the update on the jupiter copper foil review by Tony Gee and he gave it a very good rating.
I just so happened that i ws toying between the jupiter and cutf on my digital input and concluded the same, that the jupiter was one of the most balanced caps that does all areas well enough to make it my universal cap to use. It does'nt beat say the cast, cutf or tftf in certain areas, but does everything very well. I have a very itchy feeling it would work very well in the tweeter blocking function.
I rolled the vcap tftf, cast, mundorf silver oils and silver gold.
The vcap tftf was the most extended and linear sounding, the silver oils were a very sparkly but also had a disorganized and slightly messy upfront staging. The silver golds were strange, had good depth, calmness and quite natural sounding, ultimately lacking extension. The cast were good, detailed, natural but actually feel it strength radiates from the midrange out but fall short on the top amd bottom frequencies.
The cast works for me as the this a small value cap in my tweeter crossover which i left the tftf there and believe it has a good synergy with the cast not making it too dull sounding. I wpuld strongly feel, full cast would not be what i want, it probably works great for a dull sounding setup.
Even the mundorf silver or silver mix definately has more detail in the higher registers.
Again, the choice of solder plays a good part in getting caps to work synergistically in any given application, if you have a chance, wbt, oyaide solder works "better" with a cast of maybe your RS. I have just tested the mundorf supreme sikver gold solder, i leaves a very similar sonic characteristic as a cast cap. To my ears, lacking it both the extension and gaves a nicer midrange.
You might want to look into psu and grounding to get less noise. Focussing just on swapping caps in the tweeter cannot be a cure all and you may have to sacrifice some more sparkle by adding 2 casts.
I now focus on getting a balanced sound over focusing on getting great mids with one cap choice, or more brilliance and detail from another cap choice etc.
The virture of the cap with the best midrange, always sacrifices the openess and sparkle.
A cap that excels in detail and clarity always causes a more upfront perspective and lost of the natural midrange.
I have not found any cap that does it all.
The jupiter copper is the closest, but doesnt highlight any particular range. It has become a no brainer choice for me unless there are specific areas of the sound i would like to gain a little more, thats where the cast, cutf, tftf and mundorf would have to be called for duty.
Imo, the cuft is closest sounding to the cast, not nearly as natural but is what i would class as a consider a midrange centric cap which has a very clear and prominent midrange details. So much so that the clarity cannot bring out some euphony in the vocals and midrange texture.
Do make it a point to take note the effect of the tweeter cap has on the bass, yes a warm less extended cap on the tweeter takes away some dynamics ad low extension on the bass noticeably. |
Yes, I feel that in and signal the cast imparts a stronger characteristic. I actually do have a 2% cast also as a mid bypass of 2uf in the crossover, but
didnt find that midrange magic.
Cast can make a digital systems almost sound like vinyl which is the exact reason why I have moved back to digital.
Like on great vinyl recordings, you get it all, smooth natural mids and extension.
On lesser vinyl recordings, here is were I find lacking which the cast pulls the same bag of tricks and sounds overly analogue lacking resolution of digital.
So I can be worth its weight in gold in the right systems or careful matching which I go from bypass psu caps with a mix to get more details and highs but did find it lessened the midrange beauty by doing so.
I still managed to get some midrange beauty that I acheive with aacheive by other brands of caps limited to those I has selected. |
Grannyring, do try your silver oils in parallel with duelundstonally to see if it tonally and gain more details, the vocals were still good doing so. The silver gold oil worked slightly better as a bypass to the cast for me together with a small tftf
which allowed a more open soundstage.The silver oils are good in the tweeter cap as well, not untilltftf comparitftf and cast did I find the glare and somewhat uncontrolled highs. |
Update on the duelund 0.01uf silver foil meant as a bypasscap.
Finds on getting bore extension is as previously stated.
This is a very neutral cap and balanced sounding which actually does'nt add much as a bypass.
I have retested in a different application, digital input as a small value of 0.01uf is sufficient. The main comparision is the jupiter copper which used on it's own is one cap i find the most neutral and balanced sounding accross the whole frequency range, it was however a 1uf replacing the 1uf electrolytic.
The duelund as a main signal cap is slightly more detailed and clear whcih leads to a more upfront and less open sounding compared to the Jupiter copper.
I must say without critical listening, they sound very similar ,but currently have preference to the more layered and spacious sound of the Jupiter copper although with a penalty of a slight loss of detail of the duelund silver.
The silver duelund does not have the typical lush and analogue mids of the cast cu and still a very fine sounding cap with better extension on both extremes, so it is balanced over the whole frequency band. Does not sound bright or lean. Do not expect the bass resolution of a teflon cap like the tftf.
Do note, unless you can use the small value in coupling, it should help bring good details as a bypass, but likely not additive to tone or high. A very fine sounding cap which probably needs more time to see if the staging can be more open and have better depth, otherwise, it very good in all if it can be used in a very small value. |
Havent tried the jupiter in the tweeter. Big values are not any cheaper compared to the rs and would also feel towards the favour of the . jupiteduelundr cu has more fine details and extension than the cu and should be a better choice than duelund which are wwarmer and more closed in though high tones are very inviting sounding. |
If I had to do it again, unless you feel that there is something lacking
With the caps now, I think I would be contended with either duelunds, vcap or jupiter cu.
I found big improvement using those black bullets at the speaker terminals than what a swap of caps will do given you have good caps there presently. |
Hi Volleyguy.
No i have not tried the VSF nor will i do so. The cost just adds up to a point of craziness if you have boutique caps lying around unused.
You are correct in balancing the cast with a less refined cap, call it some raw energy to complement the oh so smooth Duelund cast.
I will likely never buy another cast as i have faced both buldging and leaking caps with no recourse or service level commensurate with the prices and never had these issues with any other cap before.
Duelund suits your music preference like no other cap will, but it can turn quickly to your disfavour which you have experienced using 2 cast. I think using 1 cast in the system is more than enough as almost all boutique caps have very extreme musical presentation focusing on different areas of the music spectrum.
As you have touch on the term quietness, which i infer to smooth, having a blackness between every note thus allowing the sounds to pop into the room as if they are live instruments.
I have recently gone towards this path by lowering noise floor by using oth tweaks which caps in the speaker will not allow you to achieve.
Since my last comments on the duelund cast being bypassed with the god oil and tftf. I have lost the remaining touch of that Duelund midrange warmth and the system not sound neutral but with a realism to vocals and instruments which i cannot associate with the sonic characteristic of each caps strong trait.
You do no need the warmth and texture to enjoy the critical midrange, a neutral but very realistic, with a live presence is what i strive to achieve not. No it does not have the analogue and rich midrange which does have a forward presence. This is not similar to the natural and real sonic traits you achieve when noise floor is lowered, depth and a black background is so satisfying.
The realness is like when i relax not pay attention to the music and certain instruments in the track pops up in the room which literally startled me. This startling effect was like when some squares of wood stuck on my walls fell and hit the floor with a "THUD".
|
Salectric,
The Jupiter might be a better choice that the Mundorf which like the Duelunds, never really found a place which left me satisfied. The Jupiter CU just get out of the way and does everything well without being overpowering or "too much" in any area.
I dont want to derail this thread by discussing the other tweaks such as the Bybees which i had adding to great effect that i ended up buying more and dont focus on finding the right cap any longer.
The type of solder could be a make of break decision with the Jupiter cu. As the cap is inherently very neutral throughout the frequencies, together with the quietness it gives , i must add a brighter/more forward sounding solder used gave me a leave it there impression. I found the oyaide solder to match the Jupiter Cu's sound nicely.
I really have 4 solders which i try to matchup with the cap used, namely audionote(more neutral), Mundorf gold (Warm), Oyaide (Brighter and lively) and another 8% silver (which gives a little hardness and solid bass) to match up the caps or any connection being used. |
Are these off ebay? Are they silk sleeve solid core version? |
